DCS World 2.0 and New Maps Discussion Thread

[SkateZilla]

So would I be wrong to think that they are just going to just surprise use one day and say here it is it's ready? I have seen no news by the wags on it's progress, apart from them saying the map was completed sometime ago. So what the developments time for this IG or whatever it is they are doing and why no news on this?

 

To Give you SOME idea on how long it will take to Code up a Image Renderer/GFX Engine/Rendering Engine/Whatever You wanna call it.

 

Frostbite 2 took 3 years to develop, from an already standing base code (Frostbite 1.0)

(Frostbite being the GFX/Physics/Destruction/Hit Detection engine that drives BF3, MoH:WF etc)

(Frostbite 2 Being DirectX 11 and 64-Bit, as well as mostly GFX Related)

 

Frostbite averages 75 Programmers for the Engine Alone, Across 20 Teams.

[PFunk1606688187]

i respect your answer but who should i believe? :(

 

These are not mutually exclusive statements. In fact, within them is nestled the clear truth. 2 terrain engines, 2 maps, 1 game.

[sobek]

These are not mutually exclusive statements. In fact, within them is nestled the clear truth. 2 terrain engines, 2 maps, 1 game.

 

You need to read the posts inbetween here and the post you quoted.

[Scarecrow]

Even if it is rendered through the new IG (which imho it will), then the new IG will not make the map prettier. For that they would have to redo the map in the new map format (the one used by nevada), taking advatages of the new IG capabilities, which is a lot of work.

 

What we will get (if it will be rendered through the new IG) is all the other things that new IG will improve - lighting, partice effects..etc

 

That what I'm hoping for:)

[TaliG]

The Black Sea map is not going anywhere.

 

:thumbup:

 

 

That is the answare I was looking for and also comes from one that has the right and inside knowledge for giving this answere...

I truly thank you Mr Wags for putting me out of my misery:smilewink:

[KaspeR32]

The Black Sea map is not going anywhere.

 

"Everything is subject to change."

 

It very well could be left in the dust still. Right now, yes, it's safe. I doubt even Wags knows the future of The Black Sea map and the soon to be, out dated (IG) engine when EDGE is released.

[TaliG]

i respect your answer but who should i believe? :(

 

Believe common sense. :smartass:

 

Well...considering that luckybob9 is a 3rd party contributor, I would pretty much ride on his statements and reference his post for the questions you have.

 

 

It was just a rhetorical question toward nomdeplume :smilewink:

 

I support the idea of respecting others people thoughts, even if they are incorrect.

I also feel obliged to let them understand their mistake and correct themselfs by giving them the opportunity to choose between right and wrong, truth or lie, by pointing to them the truth and right.

If they don't, then I would just walk away and let them continue their ''self destructive'' thinking...

There is no reason to ''fight'' for right and truth...Only the obligation to point them out to people that cannot see them.

It is a personal decision to follow the right over the wrong and truth over the lie, and I will never ''fight'' against personal decisions.

 

PS my grammar may be a litle bit wrong but I hope you get my point:smilewink:

Edited July 10, 2013 by TaliG

[Rocky49]

I'm begining to feel like Moses, in year 2 of a 40 year trip:noexpression:

[Mike Busutil]

HA! ^

[Cedaway]

"Everything is subject to change."

 

It very well could be left in the dust still. Right now, yes, it's safe. I doubt even Wags knows the future of The Black Sea map and the soon to be, out dated (IG) engine when EDGE is released.

 

It's already been stated that the Black sea map won't fit with EDGE engine.

EDGE need the maps to be done from scratch. The present map could not be 'converted'.

 

What I foresee is:

If we want to load the current black sea map, DCS would run the current engine

If we want to load a new map (I.e. Nevada), DCS would run EDGE.

 

So, will we have two Image Generator in a single game? Future will tell.

[Scarecrow]

What I foresee is:

If we want to load the current black sea map, DCS would run the current engine

If we want to load a new map (I.e. Nevada), DCS would run EDGE.

 

Now that I've taken the time to read the first post:doh:, I think you're correct.:shocking:

[Cedaway]

Hard to find our way in 1850+ posts ;)

[Raven68]

To Give you SOME idea on how long it will take to Code up a Image Renderer/GFX Engine/Rendering Engine/Whatever You wanna call it.

 

Frostbite 2 took 3 years to develop, from an already standing base code (Frostbite 1.0)

(Frostbite being the GFX/Physics/Destruction/Hit Detection engine that drives BF3, MoH:WF etc)

(Frostbite 2 Being DirectX 11 and 64-Bit, as well as mostly GFX Related)

 

Frostbite averages 75 Programmers for the Engine Alone, Across 20 Teams.

 

Nice tidbit there Skates. If that's the case we may be a ways off from seeing anything anytime soon considering that ED staffing is smaller in comparison, IIRC from some of the post I have read over time, and the complexity of DCSW already to add. I'm not trying to be a downer, but trying to get a handle on the reality. I am just as eager as the next DCS fan to see how this IG/EDGE is coming along.

 

I do have a question though. The current engine/IG we have now, was that started from scratch,and if Wags or anyone that knows how long did it take to develop?

[SkateZilla]

This thread is putting me on the EDGE.... lol....

[Mnemonic]

This thread is putting me on the EDGE.... lol....

True, me too... Everybody waits for a new fast and beautiful engine! And Nevada of course!

 

P.S. And I do hope EDGE will work faster than current engine, using more cores and more of a modern GPU horse power.

[dooom]

Got it ... Interesting article too - I don't think many folks think about computing cost when looking at pace of development

[TaliG]

When will EDGE be released?

Since EDGE is built from scratch, it will take time to incorporate all the elements that are needed to make it playable at acceptable frame rates.

 

When I read ''playable at acceptable frame rates'' sadly reminds me the recomented system specs of LOMAC back in 2004...

Pentium III 2.0 GHz or AMD Athlon 1800MHz Processor

512MB RAM

DirectX 128MB Video Card

:megalol::lol::doh:

 

LOMAC was ''playable at acceptable frame rates'' only with high end hardware that was available 2-3 years after the game was relised...and even then (and some times even now) passing over towns, or carpet bombing a tank colomn, was like pausing the game to take photographs of the amaizing inviroment...:cry:

 

If ''EDGE'' will bring us in the same situation and force us to wait for 2-3 years for high tech hardware to be available, then for me is a no go...better to keep developing the engine for enother 2-3 years and make it bug free than me, waiting 2-3 years for high tech harware to become available in order to play the sim at ''acceptable frame rates'' that I and most of us think that are trully acceptable.

 

So we need to consider the possibility that instead of loving this new engine when it finaly comes out we actualy going to hate it and start a 5-6 years race of chassing bugs and new high tech hardware ;)

Edited July 10, 2013 by TaliG

[jmod]

The Black Sea map is not going anywhere.

 

Please don't limit the Eagle Dynamics' Simulation Engine by supporting the old Graphic Engine (like what you did to the 32-bit systems)!

Stop Black Sea, and make new Persian Gulf Map for new Naval Operations.

[starsky396]

Please don't limit the Eagle Dynamics' Simulation Engine by supporting the old Graphic Engine (like what you did to the 32-bit systems)!

Stop Black Sea, and make new Persian Gulf Map for new Naval Operations.

ED has put too much work to leave the Black sea map behind.

[aaron886]

I don't think ED will be leaving Black Sea behind. I do fear that they will focus on it too much, however... traditionally one of the things that makes other flight simmers turn away from the series. :(

[Paganus]

Wags was very clear in post #1839 that the existing map isn't going away. That leads me to guess that the current maps assets will run in the new IG.

[Grimes]

I don't think ED will be leaving Black Sea behind. I do fear that they will focus on it too much, however... traditionally one of the things that makes other flight simmers turn away from the series. :(

 

Honestly theres lots of cool stuff in the Black Sea region that isn't included on the map that I'd love to see someday. But yeah I know what you mean. I'd rather have a new map + new bits and pieces of the Black Sea than a massive expansion of the Black Sea map.

[TaliG]

Wags was very clear in post #1839 that the existing map isn't going away. That leads me to guess that the current maps assets will run in the new IG.

 

That is what I believe aswell.

 

 

Please don't limit the Eagle Dynamics' Simulation Engine by supporting the old Graphic Engine (like what you did to the 32-bit systems)!

Stop Black Sea, and make new Persian Gulf Map for new Naval Operations.

 

+1

and

-1. Why ''force'' people to spend money on a new theater that they do not like to fly into?

I personally hate Nevada desert and I am sure there are other people that dont like it.

Fix Black Sea to work on dx11. Not upgrade it with new houses and stuff...just make it work with dx11. I am sure ED will not let us on this... I am sure they will find a way around.

After ED releases the tools, many 3rd party devs will produce many theaters quickly.

 

 

I don't think ED will be leaving Black Sea behind. I do fear that they will focus on it too much, however... traditionally one of the things that makes other flight simmers turn away from the series. :(

 

When the new IG engine is finished, then 3rd party devs will acquire the tools and we are going to have many theaters. I believe that a devoted team with the right tools will be able to provide a professionally made theater in a year or less.

 

In my opinion ED should focus on DCS World core, no theaters no modules until they get a clean core without bugs for others (3rd partys) to be able to work on it.

Is it possible for a house builder to give an unfinished house to decorators,painters, electricians and others, and also this same builder work on the pool without having the walls the roof and the stairs finished?

Edited July 12, 2013 by TaliG

[Cedaway]

Here, Luthier1 has stated that :

 

1. There’s a new project in development between RRG Studios (my company) and Eagle Dynamics.

 

and

 

6. The landscape in the new project will be based on EDGE.

 

And finally

 

2. The official project announcement, alongside screenshots, videos, schedules, and the most detailed feature description you’ve ever seen on any flight sim ever, will come no earlier and no later than September 1st, 2013. The date is very important for the project. We cannot miss it. Be there.

 

So, I expect September 1st would bring fresh news on EDGE too. And I want to add 'Finally, at last!'

 

 

EDIT: And concerning Black Sea Map, just read the first post of the thread:

 

Will the Black Sea map in its current form work with EDGE?

No. Since the technology behind EDGE is dramatically different, down to the tools that create it, terrain needs to be built with the EDGE benefits in mind. This is a HUGE undertaking and not an easy task to redo something.

 

So :

Fix Black Sea to work on dx11. Not upgrade it with new houses and stuff...just make it work with dx11...

 

Not that simple... ;) It's just being at work for nearly 3 years now (a guesstimate from that post, counting it should have taken one more year of build to show those pics)

Edited July 12, 2013 by Cedaway

[winz]

Will the Black Sea map in its current form work with EDGE?

No. Since the technology behind EDGE is dramatically different, down to the tools that create it, terrain needs to be built with the EDGE benefits in mind. This is a HUGE undertaking and not an easy task to redo something.

I have hard time believing that the new IG will not work with the Black Sea map. As stated Wags, the map isn't going anywhere so the only other way for them achieve that would be to have two rendering engines and that is an insine PITA to maintain and has a huge bunch of consequences. I cannot image any sane programmer agreeing to that solution. Every new funtionality you add to the new engine has the capability to break the old one. You wan to add displacement map layer to textures? Cool, what about the old engine? You want to add fuel air bombs, or napalm with appropriate effects? Cool, what about the old engine?

 

What I think is most likely is that the new IG will support the old map format (the map really doens't care if it's rendered in dx9 or dx11), but it will look the same in the new IG, because for it to take advantage of the new IG features it would have to be redone in the new map format.

Edited July 12, 2013 by winz