Mustang First Take-Off and Landing: Post your Tracks/Vids

[fastfreddie]

I had a lot more trouble taxing the thing that doing my first takeoff and landing which went quite smooth. Had to get the brake setting right so I quit killing props. Are there any videos for getting out of flat spins?

[JahManRed]

Its bad.......

JahManRed

[lesnyborsuk]

Hello,

 

Landing is one of the hardest things to get to grips with the Mustang.

 

Tips I can give:

 

• Dont be too slow, go over the threshold straight and wings level at 150knts
  

 

Having 150 mph at runway threshold is maybe good to learn at begining, but you will waste lots of runway. Traffic pattern for Mustang says you have to have 120 mph at threshold, and if you are trained in slow flight, with some care you can do 90 mph without stalling (50% fuel, no external payload, steering with rudder, small banks). But in perfect landing you will have this 90 mph just after runway threshold, just before touchdown.

 

Recently I am trying to master the shortest landings as possible to be able to land on carrier everytime :)

 

Are there any videos for getting out of flat spins?

 

As far as I remember, I was able to train recovering from flat spins by moving stick up and down fast to get into "normal" spin, and then recover with standard procedure.

Edited September 17, 2013 by lesnyborsuk

[9.JG27 DavidRed]

[Olethros]

The only mistake I made during my first flight in DCS's Pony (save for a couple of slightly awkward ground loops while taxiing to the runway) was not saving the track afterwards. Compared to Il-2:1946 it's actually quite a bit easier nailing a three-pointer here, even in full simulator mode with no rudder or landing assists of any kind. The lack of ground effect in Il-2 tends to turn an almost perfectly timed flare into a jarring, bouncy embarrassment, but the DCS flight model seems a lot more forgiving in this aspect.

[Eldur]

I'm still trying hard to take off the P-51... I just did it once, must be by accident :D

 

I can take off any plane in Il-2, Rise of Flight or BoS (even the Gotha or Dr.I are piece of cake) early access, I've been flying ever since (started in the 90s, using FFB + Simped pedals for ~10 years now), but I can't ****ing get the P-51 in DCS off the ground.

 

Here's what happens: I trim my rudder right ~5,5-6°, then I slowly advance the throttle, keeping my stick a bit back so the tail wheel doesn't go castor.

Now I need quite hard left rudder to compensate for the trim because I don't want to take off with 100% throttle right away. Then at some point the plane starts veering left which I try to counteract by reducing the rudder input, to no avail. Then I even start going right rudder and still nothing happens, it still veers off to the left - but now as soon as the tail might lift off (even if it doesn't), the plane suddenly veers hard to the right, no matter if I'm still on the right rudder or even the left one. It always shoots me off the runway to the right... :(

 

I suspect that DCS doesn't even model propwash authority on the tail control surfaces, so I did an easy test and it went absolutely positive.

 

On the parking area, I started taxiing, at ~30km/h I pushed the stick forward to get rid of the tail wheel taxi control, pressed the right toe brake and the plane starts "spinning" to the right on the ground. Then I tried to counter the spin by just pressing full left rudder, no brakes, stick still a bit forward and incresing throttle.

What happened? Absolutely nothing. But the plane should stop rotating with that left rudder + thrust... Only the brakes could stop that pirouette... extremely strange behaviour, but that explains why I can't really rudder against the left/right veering on the takeoff roll. Probably I'd just have to firewall the throttle to get to the speed where the rudder become effective fast enough, but I still hesitate doing so because of the enormous torque forces :)

 

But definately, there hast to be done some more work, I don't want to see this in DCS WW2 '44, otherwise I might end up flying the 262 alone :D. I never ever had problems with the rudder on taking off in any sim, but this gives me serious headache...

 

Edit: Looks like I got it now :D Once airborne, it's a delight to fly :) And Landing is a lot easier than take off.

Edited March 9, 2014 by Eldur

[Vinny002]

Hi, guys!

 

I'm having a very hard time taking off and landing the P-51 too. You just have to keep practicing. P-51 Mustang is on of my favorite planes!

 

Cheers,

Vincent

[Zabuzard]

The hardest thing is to handle the rudder right at takeoff. If you got no good rudder hardware i recommend activating the rudder assistance for takeoff in the settings :)

[Charly_Owl]

I'm still trying hard to take off the P-51... I just did it once, must be by accident :D

 

I can take off any plane in Il-2, Rise of Flight or BoS (even the Gotha or Dr.I are piece of cake) early access, I've been flying ever since (started in the 90s, using FFB + Simped pedals for ~10 years now), but I can't ****ing get the P-51 in DCS off the ground.

 

Here's what happens: I trim my rudder right ~5,5-6°, then I slowly advance the throttle, keeping my stick a bit back so the tail wheel doesn't go castor.

Now I need quite hard left rudder to compensate for the trim because I don't want to take off with 100% throttle right away. Then at some point the plane starts veering left which I try to counteract by reducing the rudder input, to no avail. Then I even start going right rudder and still nothing happens, it still veers off to the left - but now as soon as the tail might lift off (even if it doesn't), the plane suddenly veers hard to the right, no matter if I'm still on the right rudder or even the left one. It always shoots me off the runway to the right... :(

 

I suspect that DCS doesn't even model propwash authority on the tail control surfaces, so I did an easy test and it went absolutely positive.

 

On the parking area, I started taxiing, at ~30km/h I pushed the stick forward to get rid of the tail wheel taxi control, pressed the right toe brake and the plane starts "spinning" to the right on the ground. Then I tried to counter the spin by just pressing full left rudder, no brakes, stick still a bit forward and incresing throttle.

What happened? Absolutely nothing. But the plane should stop rotating with that left rudder + thrust... Only the brakes could stop that pirouette... extremely strange behaviour, but that explains why I can't really rudder against the left/right veering on the takeoff roll. Probably I'd just have to firewall the throttle to get to the speed where the rudder become effective fast enough, but I still hesitate doing so because of the enormous torque forces :)

 

But definately, there hast to be done some more work, I don't want to see this in DCS WW2 '44, otherwise I might end up flying the 262 alone :D. I never ever had problems with the rudder on taking off in any sim, but this gives me serious headache...

 

Edit: Looks like I got it now :D Once airborne, it's a delight to fly :) And Landing is a lot easier than take off.

 

At the beginning, I would takeoff by going full power, barely touch the stick and correct with toe brakes. Needless to say, I crashed numerous times.

 

The real foolproof way to takeoff in a Mustang is pretty simple.

 

1) Apply 5 degrees rudder trim (not essential)

2) Pull your stick slightly back (towards you). This will lock the tail wheel and make you go in a "straight"-er-ish line. It really, really helps. If you pull too hard on the stick, you'll spin as soon as you leave the ground and turn into a joyful ball of fire.

3) Full power, max RPM.

4) Use slight rudder input to correct for minor trajectory deviations. NEVER EVER use toe brakes once you feel your tail leaving the ground.

5) Once you've gained enough speed, pull the stick a bit more and the aircraft should leave the ground by itself. Ta-dah.

[Vinny002]

Hi, Zabuza!

 

The rudder assistance is called the auto-rudder in the settings. I got a couple of questions for you, what is the recommended flap setting for takeoff/landing with full fuel with no external fuel tanks, and no weapons, and what is the recommended flap setting for takeoff/landing with full fuel+2 external fuel tanks, and no weapons? Thanks!

 

Cheers,

Vincent

Edited April 25, 2014 by Vinny002

[Anatoli-Kagari9]

I suspect that DCS doesn't even model propwash authority on the tail control surfaces, so I did an easy test and it went absolutely positive.

 

 

It does model this, and a LOT more :-)

 

Actually, although lately I've also been playing yet another Combat flightsim quite a lot ( IL2 BoS ) I must say that I still find specially the P51 flight and systems modelling the top of all I have ever used in a flightsim, being it civil or combat.

 

It took me some time to adapt to the sensibility of the DCS input. Had to adjust the rudder curve to exponential, around 70%.

 

Taking off or landing is piece of cake, including crabbed approaches down to just a couple of feet above rw. It only requires some pratice, and when one comes from sims like MSFS or XP, the superior flight dynamics and overall physics modeling of DCS make our experience a whole different!

 

You are doing it all right. Make sure you do not apply too much back pressure on your stick. I ease as soon as the aircraft starts rolling along the rw. Then, after managing to keep it straight, I start pushing slightly before takeoff. In my furst takeoff runs I tended to pull the stick more than I should, and I ended up getting airborne and suddenly at a high AoA. Low speed / high power / high AoA = crash for sure!!!!

[Mike Busutil]

This was my 2nd landing in the P-51 when I was still learning how to handle her. I let the rudder get away from me...

 

 

 

After I spent some time with her in the traffic pattern and read the flight manuals I learned how she likes to be treated for landing. (landing setup at 9:00 minute mark)

 

[Tomtekopf]

My first flight was a rather short one! ;)

 

Starts at 2:55

Edited August 29, 2014 by Tomtekopf

[EinsteinEP]

It does model this, and a LOT more :-)

I'm with Eldur on this one. I've done my own experimentation and it appears that the rudder has zero effectiveness in propwash, which does not seem correct. I'd love to see your track/data that shows the opposite.

[leafer]

I'm with Eldur on this one. I've done my own experimentation and it appears that the rudder has zero effectiveness in propwash, which does not seem correct. I'd love to see your track/data that shows the opposite.

 

This came up before.

 

Here's an old thread with video. Also, please read Yo-Yo's comments.

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=88180

[msalama]

No track & have no access to my simming computer for the next 4(!) months or so for various reasons, but last I checked you could turn the Stang on the runway with rudder only (i.e. no tailwheel steering) if you revved the engine, so the propwash effect must be modelled. And ditto for the FW - just checked a couple of days ago and it behaved similarly too.

 

So I'd say it definitely _is_ modelled. Just wondering why you guys don't seem to have the effect at all? :huh:

[EinsteinEP]

So I'd say it definitely _is_ modelled. Just wondering why you guys don't seem to have the effect at all? :huh:

I can't speak for the others, but I was experimenting incorrectly. I went through some more deliberate testing and now retract earlier my statement - slipstream effects on the rudder ARE modeled.

 

Hopefully this video puts to bed the question for anybody else who is wondering. I know it has solved the question, permanently, in my mind.

 

 

Forgot to include in the video, but this test data was taken with completely unmodded DCS World 1.210.30996 and stock P-51D module.

Edited September 1, 2014 by EinsteinEP
Can't figure out youtube embed link :(

[leafer]

I just tried this and was going to post vid. On the P-51D, if you raised the tail you're only able to yaw left and right just a tad.

 

The Dora, on the other hand, is a beast and even with its tail raised, wanted to do a circle with left rudder. Right rudder took a few seconds to get going but I think the engine torque is just too much.

Edited September 1, 2014 by leafer

[ctguy1955]

At the beginning, I would takeoff by going full power, barely touch the stick and correct with toe brakes. Needless to say, I crashed numerous times.

 

The real foolproof way to takeoff in a Mustang is pretty simple.

 

1) Apply 5 degrees rudder trim (not essential)

2) Pull your stick slightly back (towards you). This will lock the tail wheel and make you go in a "straight"-er-ish line. It really, really helps. If you pull too hard on the stick, you'll spin as soon as you leave the ground and turn into a joyful ball of fire.

3) Full power, max RPM.

4) Use slight rudder input to correct for minor trajectory deviations. NEVER EVER use toe brakes once you feel your tail leaving the ground.

5) Once you've gained enough speed, pull the stick a bit more and the aircraft should leave the ground by itself. Ta-dah.

 

 

SO THAT is what I was doing wrong !!! Pulling ALL the way back to lock the tail wheel

when I only needed a little bit. I had someone tell me to use the assistant and I did

not know what they meant, but the Shift enter ( or Control Enter ) puts up a little

window in my far left screen ( I use three screens ) and I can tell how much pressure

I am pulling back .........and I leave the throttle at 30 manifold pressure until Im half way down the runway, and then I give it more throttle until Im up to around 45 pressure and then

just wait to go airborne and no more take off problems. I use to spin over to the left

and crash 9 out of 10 tries !!! Thank You !!

[dooom]

glad to see you improving ct! keep it up.

[Teapot]

SO THAT is what I was doing wrong !!! Pulling ALL the way back to lock the tail wheel

when I only needed a little bit. I had someone tell me to use the assistant and I did

not know what they meant, but the Shift enter ( or Control Enter ) puts up a little

window in my far left screen ( I use three screens ) and I can tell how much pressure

I am pulling back .........and I leave the throttle at 30 manifold pressure until Im half way down the runway, and then I give it more throttle until Im up to around 45 pressure and then

just wait to go airborne and no more take off problems. I use to spin over to the left

and crash 9 out of 10 tries !!! Thank You !!

 

Pulling all the way back is not wrong ... what you may be doing incorrectly is not letting the stick go back to neutral as you track down the runway.

 

FWIW, I pull the stick all the way back, leave it there for a few seconds and then allow the stick to go back to it's neutral position, because once it's locked it won't unlock until you shove the stick forward again.

As the ship picks up speed, I smoothly apply throttle and apply tiny corrections with rudder.

Then the tail lifts, tracking straight and true, and shortly after that I'm airborne.

I don't do the 5 degree thingy .. and also read somewhere that they didn't do that in RL either (source eludes me .. sorry). From that same source I recall them saying something along the lines that the 5 degree trim was applied for cruise (?).

 

If your ship is trimmed correctly, it will probably lift off prematurely if you exert back pressure on the stick before it's really ready to become unstuck ... if anything, I sometimes give it a bit of a forward nudge as I'm tracking down the runway to help raise the tail .. but be careful doing this because you can overdo it and end up bending the props or worse.

Edited September 16, 2014 by Teapot

[ZaltysZ]

Pulling stick fully back on initial roll out is often a desirable action. It creates additional downforce on the tail and loads tail wheel more making it harder to slip and more responsive to steering. However, one must not forget to gradually release the stick as aircraft speeds up and rudder authority is gained. Failing in that will result fatal "jump and crash" situation.

 

P.S. the same goes for Dora, however it does not have steerable tail wheel, so pulling back, locking and loading the tail wheel will make Dora somewhat less steerable, but more directional stable.

[dartuil]

Look at my track please can you help me?

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=130920

I have the same with sabre but sabre thread is dead.

[Flanker52]

Key for me was pulling the stick back during my takeoff roll. Before I did that I would veer to the left and die a horrible death every time.

 

Now I can successfully take off almost every time.

 

Main problem now is trying to stay near the center line. It's really hard with the poor vision in the P-51. Even more difficult when landing.

 

Although this is probably the only plane I have ever flown that is actually easier to land than take off.

[Devrim]

Yes! That's how I land with this bird! :D Shortly, please go to 01:15