Oculus Rift and DCS World Discussion

[TOYKILLA]

I assume the screenshot is representative of the low resolution DK1, and doesn't represent the higher resolution DK2. It will be interesting to see how it looks with the DK2, next month, which still won't represent the even higher resolution of the CV1. I can't see the ability to see gauges being a problem with the consumer version.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxOA_qFfW3M

[Maximus_G]

Don't forget rift is stretching the image actos 90º/100º of your FoV and and the image resolution and the image you see has only 860 x 960 pixels for DK2 ((1920/2) *0.8 ).

 

So are we gonna fly like Jim 'Wash Out' Pfaffenbach with this thing?

No Topper Harley style?

And yes, those are true fisheye lens )

[zahry]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxOA_qFfW3M

Bang on - you can see the resolution is very limited even when the image is small - now imagine the same image 2m x 2m infront of you to cover the 90º of your field of view ...

 

btw - that's how it originally started way before palmer "got inspired" and put his sticker on it ;-)

- similar things were available since 2010 for free (and that's why rift is what it is and looks like how it looks = sky mask with cardboard box on it ;-) )

[Chivas]

That's actually upscaled image to CV1

 

this is image from DK1 how you see it

 

How can that image be an upscale to the CV1 resolution, when the CV1 resolution isn't known yet.

[blksolo]

I dont think we will know the resolution of CV1 for a while,my guess would be they dont want the competition to know until the last minute. I will definitely be getting a DK2,my GTX 570 aint gonna cut it tho,time to upgrade!!

[Frusheen]

That's actually upscaled image to CV1

 

this is image from DK1 how you see it

 

I wasn't going to let myself be drawn into this but that post and picture is just nonsense. The fact is no image posted on a 2d monitor can give a true impression of what the rift looks like. The reddit image was wrong and you were right to point that out but posting images like this make me question your motives. We all know dev kit 1 is low res and it'll probably take a few iterations to get to a perfect resolution. Yes I am a rift fanboy as are most in this thread. Not all of us can afford wrap around rear projection screens and several projectors!

[zahry]

How can that image be an upscale to the CV1 resolution, when the CV1 resolution isn't known yet.

 

the mig 29 pic is DK1, the other one is DK2/CV1 as per present announcements (source wiki) - you can upscale image on ati cards quite easy - you won't be able to physically see the image improvement in rift because of the display limited resolution. But you can take screenshot and view it on monitor which has usually more than double the amount of perceived pixels.

 

You'll find that any honest DK1 owner (and I'm sure in future even DK2 owners as well) will confirm that's pretty much all the detail what you get. There is also plenty of screenshots on web which you can blow up to correct size to verify that's the fact and reality of OR. Of course if you'll view it as a thumbnail if will look good but once you zoom in our print it out in the adequate size you'll see it's a different story and the resolution is simply too poor.

[zahry]

I wasn't going to let myself be drawn into this but that post and picture is just nonsense. The fact is no image posted on a 2d monitor can give a true impression of what the rift looks like. The reddit image was wrong and you were right to point that out but posting images like this make me question your motives. We all know dev kit 1 is low res and it'll probably take a few iterations to get to a perfect resolution. Yes I am a rift fanboy as are most in this thread. Not all of us can afford wrap around rear projection screens and several projectors!

 

I deal with abuse from delusional OR fans on daily basis and my motives are simply to bring some reality and facts into the discussion.

 

Lot of people are misinformed and are purposely led to have a false expectations about OR. I'm very sorry if the reality is different than your fantasies but that images are real and that's how it looks. Note - and I would like to make it ABSOLUTELY CLEAR - that I'm not saying buy this or that (or don't) - it's your thing what you do with your time and money.

[blksolo]

I just sold my rift last week but I can tell you that after playing DCS with it,I cant play DCS without it anymore.Yes the graphics are low res and frankly you wouldnt be able to complete a single mission due to the fact that you cant read any of the displays or instruments.BUT the sense of immersion is unreal and it overrides that lack of high resolution.

[bongodriver]

I think someone is still upset about the Facebook thing, the image is nowhere near what is seen in dk1, in dk1 there is much more FOV, why would anyone misinform about the rift capability? I don't stand to personally gain from promoting it, but somebody bitter has nothing to lose by criticising it.

[Frusheen]

I think someone is still upset about the Facebook thing, the image is nowhere near what is seen in dk1, in dk1 there is much more FOV, why would anyone misinform about the rift capability? I don't stand to personally gain from promoting it, but somebody bitter has nothing to lose by criticising it.

 

I don't think Facebook has anything to do with it. The producer of simpit projection systems. Which do look fantastic by the way. I really would love to have the space and money to own one.

[TOYKILLA]

 

 

 

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Edited July 2, 2014 by TOYKILLA

[zahry]

I don't think Facebook has anything to do with it. The producer of simpit projection systems. Which do look fantastic by the way. I really would love to have the space and money to own one.

Cheers - indeed facebook has nothing to do with it. Also I'm realistic and I really don't expect somebody who is considering to spend $300 on OR will ditch the idea and will spend suddenly $6 000 or 65 000 on pro simulation system :D.

 

But from previous photos you can see why it makes me laugh when people who never tried OR are saying OR will replace projection systems or even old monitors. Yes - it has immersion effect due to isolation and 3D effect but it has no absolutely no detail - it's absolutely useless beyond basic entertainment and for flight simulation completely inadequate.

 

I've spent fair share of my pocket money on 3D goggles so I'll be the last one to stop anybody to buy one - but if you do I'm happy to tell you what you are buying. Bottom line is why should I pretend the image quality is better than it is? What is the point of denying facts and reality? What's wrong with showing somebody who never had 3D goggles before or never seen OR in reality what it is and how it looks like? So far everybody relies on chinese whispers and information fabricated by the rift marketing.

 

I've done about 600 -800 hrs with various 3D goggles (I already owned VR920 which I purchased in 2008 and I've tried lot of other 3D goggles as well) so the "WOW - it's in 3D" factor is long time gone. After finding out the reality about OR for myself I personally feel really ripped off and genuinely cheated - the image was crap and the immersion was the same as with any old 3D goggles. From the hype and advertising I've expected something great and nice picture - not something that is worst than my 5 year old equipment.

[zahry]

- that's the real output. You can see how the 1920 x 1080 is divided and cropped. Switch to HD and you can seee the "clarity" of instruments and "Quality" of image (nothing to do with DCS - which has fantastic graphics).

 

FYI - you can actually see the video in 3D WITHOUT any goggles - here is how http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-view-stereo-graphic-images/ (although only as a thumbnail - you can see the 3D is quite good fun but I dare you to read the instruments :-D )

Edited July 2, 2014 by zahry

[blackbelter]

Why not leave it to us and let us judge for ourselves when we get the first hand experience on VR? The fact that you are attacking an alternative to your own product does invite questions on your motives...

 

Just something for you to consider. Out.

[Maximus_G]

...I personally feel really ripped off and genuinely cheated - the image was crap and the immersion was the same as with any old 3D goggles.

Old 3D goggles present a narrow FOV. While the difference between narrow and wide FOV is quite strong usually. When the image goes into the peripheral vision area, there's a prominent effect on human's vestibular system, increasing a presence effect, especially with lots of motion. You can usually feel it with a big screen, a TV or imax, or a projection system used in professional simulators. Bigger FOV - that's what the hype is about, that's why people like it so much better. Don't know why you don't notice that.

[zahry]

Why not leave it to us and let us judge for ourselves when we get the first hand experience on VR? The fact that you are attacking an alternative to your own product does invite questions on your motives...

 

Just something for you to consider. Out.

 

Just something for you to consider:

1) not attacking the product in any way - that's how OR is and how it performs.

2) I'm attacking only the myths and delusions surrounding OR

3) I'm giving you the opportunity judge for yourself THE REAL THING

 

The fact that you are attacking an alternative to your own product

yeah - right - and rift will be also cure for cancer and world hunger...

[zahry]

Old 3D goggles present a narrow FOV. While the difference between narrow and wide FOV is quite strong usually. When the image goes into the peripheral vision area, there's a prominent effect on human's vestibular system, increasing a presence effect, especially with lots of motion. You can usually feel it with a big screen, a TV or imax, or a projection system used in professional simulators. Bigger FOV - that's what the hype is about, that's why people like it so much better. Don't know why you don't notice that.

I did noticed but it is negligible because it still feels like having big blinds on sides and I don't have any real peripheral vision to speak of - it still feels quite restricted. to be hones 3 monitors give me far better view and situational awareness. There is undoubtedly small improvement in FoV but not enough to justify the whole hype around it or to thow out my old monitors. And it's definitely not quite big enough to have any profound effect on vestibular effects (apart from causing bad nausea for some reason - and I normally never get sick in the air or sims)

 

BTW - few tips how to make OR at least marginally useable for DCS:

 

1)setting BIG font size on mouse hover (you know which switches you are using)

2)setting BIG font on HUD (you know the speed and altitude without guessing)

3)setting labels font BIG and using # symbol instead of the . (you know where the targets are and what you are shooting at) (labels.lua)

4)using Peters P radio clickable menu with BIG font (you can use the commands and move the radio to more comfortable position)

Edited July 2, 2014 by zahry

[blackbelter]

Just something for you to consider:

1) not attacking the product in any way - that's how OR is and how it performs.

2) I'm attacking only the myths and delusions surrounding OR

3) I'm giving you the opportunity judge for yourself THE REAL THING

 

yeah - right - and rift will be also cure for cancer and world hunger...

 

Nope, that is not how OR is and how it performs. That is how YOU perceived it. There is no such thing as the real thing when subjectivity plays the major part in the judgement. Whether it is a myth or delusion (or neither) is not for you to say the final word. Everybody has their own opinion.

 

OR is not a solution to world hunger, nobody is saying that except you. Such nonsensical amateurish humour does not help you here.

 

And by the way, the 2D picture you posted about a 3D view is misleading. That much I am sure.

Edited July 2, 2014 by blackbelter

[Chazz_BMF]

Some news about DK2 shipping !!!

 

https://developer.oculusvr.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=10044

[zahry]

Nope, that is not how OR is and how it performs. That is how YOU perceived it. There is no such thing as the real thing when subjectivity plays the major part in the judgement. Whether it is a myth or delusion (or neither) is not for you to say the final word. Everybody has their own opinion.

 

OR is not a solution to world hunger, nobody is saying that except you. Such nonsensical amateurish humour does not help you here.

 

And by the way, the 2D picture you posted about a 3D view is misleading. That much I am sure.

Q 1: do you have OR?

Q 2: do you play DCS on it?

Q 3: how are the screenshots subjective? (hint - it's a screenshot!!!)

Q 4: if you think it is subjective - can YOU read the instruments, MFDs and recognize targets without banging your head on the wall/table constantly in attempt to zoom in?

Q 5 can you post your screenshots?

[blackbelter]

Q 1: do you have OR?

Q 2: do you play DCS on it?

Q 3: how are the screenshots subjective? (hint - it's a screenshot!!!)

Q 4: if you think it is subjective - can YOU read the instruments, MFDs and recognize targets without banging your head on the wall/table constantly in attempt to zoom in?

Q 5 can you post your screenshots?

 

I see you have difficulty comprehending my post, so I will make things clearer for you. The screenshot is misleading, not subjective as you understood it. It is misleading because:

 

Firstly, it is a single-eye 2D shot trying to represent a 3D view, which is unavoidably misleading. If I cover one of your eyes, and tell you the world is flat, since you can't perceive any depth with a single eye, will you buy it? Granted you are trying to show the lack of pixels not depth, but it amounts to the same thing. The brain will superimpose the pixels of two images to form the whole picture (just like how depth is perceived), which is different from that percieved by a single eye. This also leads to the next point.

 

Secondly, the screenshot is from a dev kit, not a consumer product. You are attacking it as if it in its final state (esp. Resolutionwise). I think the word 'misleading' is made specifically for arguments such as yours.

 

Most of your comments are subjective. Hope things are clearer now.

 

Your attacking (yes, you are attacking) won't generate more sales to your product. It only make you look desperate. And that does you no good. Might as well save yourself some time, which cam be better spent in perfecting your own product.

 

I find these discussion pointless, thus I will refrain from posting on this topic again.

 

But you can still carry on, I am sure.

Edited July 2, 2014 by blackbelter

[zahry]

I see you have difficulty comprehending my post, so I will make things clearer for you. The screenshot is misleading, not subjective as you understood it. It is misleading because:

 

Firstly, it is a single-eye 2D shot trying to represent a 3D view, which is unavoidably misleading. If I cover one of your eyes, and tell you the world is flat, since you can't perceive any depth with a single eye, will you buy it? Granted you are trying to show the lack of pixels not depth, but it amounts to the same thing. The brain will superimpose the pixels of two images to form the whole picture (just like how depth is perceived), which is different from that percieved by a single eye. This also leads to the next point.

 

Secondly, the screenshot is from a dev kit, not a consumer product. You are attacking it as if it in its final state (esp. Resolutionwise). I think the word 'misleading' is made specifically for arguments such as yours.

 

Most of your comments are subjective. Hope things are clearer now.

 

Your attacking (yes, you are attacking) won't generate more sales to your product. It only make you look desperate. And that does you no good. Might as well save yourself some time, which cam be better spent in perfecting your own product.

 

I find these discussion pointless, thus I will refrain from posting on this topic again.

 

But you can still carry on, I am sure.

Oh - so you never had or tried rift - now I get it :-D. That makes you practically THE expert on rift :-D

 

ok - so once you buy it or try it I suggest you try the 4 tricks I mentioned earlier - it really makes things less frustrating with rift + DCS and perhaps you won't feel like you bought a sugarcoated lemon.

 

FYI: if I was a complete bastard I would suggest that everybody would BUY the rift because it makes almost everything look better after you sober up from the hype - I even appreciate my monitors bit more now :D :D.

And BTW: Feel free to make any suggestions how to make the things better - just because I refuse to to get brainwashed by the OR marketing doesn't mean I'm not interested in the technology or help to find a way how to make things work

Edited July 2, 2014 by zahry

[Chivas]

the mig 29 pic is DK1, the other one is DK2/CV1 as per present announcements (source wiki) - you can upscale image on ati cards quite easy - you won't be able to physically see the image improvement in rift because of the display limited resolution. But you can take screenshot and view it on monitor which has usually more than double the amount of perceived pixels.

 

You'll find that any honest DK1 owner (and I'm sure in future even DK2 owners as well) will confirm that's pretty much all the detail what you get. There is also plenty of screenshots on web which you can blow up to correct size to verify that's the fact and reality of OR. Of course if you'll view it as a thumbnail if will look good but once you zoom in our print it out in the adequate size you'll see it's a different story and the resolution is simply too poor.

 

Again the image is not representative of the CV1. The DK1, DK2, and CVI will all have different resolutions and features. The DK2 is 1080P which probably still isn't good enough yet, but the CV1 will be atleast 1440. Your basing your opinion on the DK1, which I'm sure is valid, but limited, with little to do with the final product. I'll be testing DCS with the DK2 sometime in the next month or so, but will withhold judgement until the CV1 release which should have quite a number of feature upgrades over the DK2.

[bongodriver]

zahry

 

1. do you have OR?

2. you do know it's a developer kit?

3. no seriously, you do know that right?

4. do projection systems cure cancer?