Aircraft Visibility

[blkspade]

Objects were definitely easier to see on my 47" 1080P TV that I briefly played on, compared to my 27' 1440p monitor. The problem is really the combination of resolution and scale. Its not the tech to provide more realistic visual acuity in a sim doesn't exist, its just prohibitively expensive in the consumer space.

 

ZFFbhKlywK0

 

If DCS ran more efficiently something like this could be achieved with multiple projectors and screens. It would still be expensive, and you'd have to dedicate a room for it.

[tietze]

If DCS ran more efficiently something like this could be achieved with multiple projectors and screens. It would still be expensive, and you'd have to dedicate a room for it.

 

I'm happy that my F-18 doesn't fly that slow ;-)

[blkspade]

I'm happy that my F-18 doesn't fly that slow ;-)

 

Yeah there are a couple different videos about that Boeing setup. One they mention that is could be configured helo's, which is probably what is actually being flown on the bulk of that video as opposed to the F-18.

[MBot]

I made a quick test to check the detection range of a tank.

 

Test setup: Player A-10A directly approaching a T-80 target tank on autopilot. Initial distance to target is randomized. Distance is confirmed by label when target is visually spotted.

 

Target aspect: 90° (direct approach from the side)

A-10 altitude: 300 ft AGL

A-10 speed: 330 kt

Terrain: Off map wasteland, green summer texture

Time 12:00

Weather: clear

 

Game settings

Textures: High

Scenery: Medium

View Distance: Medium

Resolution: 1680x1050

MSAA: 4x

HDR: Normal

 

View settings

Game FOV: 75° (default A-10A view)

Monitor: 22" at distance 75 cm covering 35° of my FOV

 

Test run 10 time:

1 NM

1.3 NM

1.3 NM

1.9 NM

1.8 NM

2.1 NM

2.3 NM

2.0 NM

2.3 NM

2.1 NM

 

Average: 1.8 NM

 

Conclusion:

Test setup is heavily biased towards maximum visual detection range. I knew there was a tank straight ahead. Airplane flew on autopilot and I could concentrate 100% on viewing ahead. I quickly learned where in the HUD the target would appear so I could concentrate my view fully on that spot (a learning effect can be seen in the test results). Even under these optimal lab conditions, maximum visual detection range settled at 2 NM, which would be inside the range to set up a gun attack against a Shilka. Under combat conditions, the first test run of 1 NM detection range (against an expected target in known direction) is probably more realistic.

 

 

I invite anyone to do similar tests and collect data for various scenarios, also air-air. I will try to dig up some RL studies which I am sure the USAF did a boatload off.

[Frogisis]

I find SweetFX helped a lot, just by upping the contrast and making everything sharper. Going back to the stock HDR feels like looking through smog now.

[KaspeR32]

 

With that the point im going to say is that you're looking at a flat object in 2 demension. depth perception is lost and there for the extra bits of information the mind could use if looking at it in real life is lost and increases time the brain needs to proccess information about the picture.

DCS is bound by the same issue as this.. No matter what resolution it will always be lacking and pretty much allways be looking at a "flat" image.. Even if someone were to spend the money and go with a colaminated screen it still is a flat image streched over an arc. It will give more of an illusion but still not the same thing as what the human eye and brain could pickup in real life over simulated. By the way this concept also corolates with what the human brain wouldn't pickup in RL vs SIM as at times the 2d image would "POP out" something to the brain it otherwise would not see in the real world.

 

You think spotting will be easier in the rift?

[Wolf Rider]

You think spotting will be easier in the rift?

 

 

It waits to be seen

 

 

@pr1malr8ge...

 

to expand on what you're saying there, The sim's viewpoint (how the sim world is viewed) is done from a single camera point ( the same as us in the real world looking at something with only one eye open). Everything you said is pretty much spot on.

With the newer technology coming along, such as the Rift, perhaps developers could look at a two camera like viewpoint, like how the use of two eyes allows depth perception to exist... basically go 3D. ?

[slowhand]

LOL there is no waldo...and all i was showing was what you would see from that Alt... ...:megalol::music_whistling::thumbup: And sometimes it is best to read them all before one bubbles up..

Edited April 16, 2014 by slowhand

[AtaliaA1]

Can I have DCS from about 15 years into the future please :)

 

 

 

That would be cool! Imagine flying through satellite created imagery of what ever campaign you want in what ever country. generated by actual real time satellite images of that area in real time.

 

We could go help the Ukrainians or Bomb the Halibut out of N.Korea, I would love to send ML a JDAM for Easter.

[ron533]

bump...any news?

I wish smart scaling could be an option implemented in DCS.

I know flying IRL, and of course it's WAY to hard to spot targets in DCS, let alone while dog-fighting with them, turning your head all around with the limitations of 2D monitors of course.

I'm all into realism and I hate labels and stuff,

but there should be an option to compensate for that.

otherwise it's a big long frustration.

[Irregular programming]

I agree fully, this game requires smart scaling, I really hope it's an EDGE feature.

 

And no, labels do not do the same thing.

[chaos]

One argument against smart scaling is that it'll be difficult to guess your closure rate... resulting in an overshoot during dogfighting. No thanks unless they offer it as an option.

[Scrim]

I disagree since it's that, or not see at all. But as an option, why not?

 

DCS desperately needs this. The dynamic campaign and the smart scaling are the main reasons I hardly play DCS any longer compared to BMS.

[Mustang]

As long as smart scaling sticks to single player only and NOT multiplayer it's fine by me.

[CallsignFrosty]

As long as smart scaling sticks to single player only and NOT multiplayer it's fine by me.

 

im sure people would like to be able to use it on multiplayer too, so maybe a mission setting (like the other difficulty settings)

[ron533]

;2103632']im sure people would like to be able to use it on multiplayer too' date=' so maybe a mission setting (like the other difficulty settings)[/quote']

+1

[airdoc]

I surely support the concept of smart scaling in DCS. I had no problem spotting targets in IL2, CLOD or BOS (the pre-release version, after the LOD fix). DCS is the only sim where i have significant trouble spotting enemy aircraft, even at 1km distance.

Now with DCS WW2 coming up and VEAO adding their warbirds, DCS would have to find a way to improve aircraft visibility if they are to attract online players.

Warbirds have no radar capabilities and the ability to spot an enemy aircraft is of paramount importance. I hope they introduce a fix to this.

[gavagai]

Those who don't play Falcon BMS will have a hard time understanding the merit of this thread. It's like trying to convince someone that track-ir is worth $150 when he is happy changing views with the keyboard.

 

Anway, I support the OP's intent and hope we see some aircraft-spotting improvement in DCS someday.

[Mustang]

;2103632']im sure people would like to be able to use it on multiplayer too' date=' so maybe a mission setting (like the other difficulty settings)[/quote']

 

Well if something like this was ever implemented by ED it would have to be something that could be enforced on/off by the mission/server, the 104th would definately disable it - otherwise you'd have people flying around with radar off constantly and hunting for giant aircraft in the distance :)

Edited June 28, 2014 by Mustang

[gavagai]

Well if something like this was ever implemented by ED it would have to be something that could be enforced on/off by the mission/server, the 104th would definately disable it - otherwise you'd have people flying around with radar off constantly and hunting for giant aircraft in the distance :)

 

No, see my post above. If you haven't tried BMS you don't have a point of reference.

[Scrim]

Well if something like this was ever implemented by ED it would have to be something that could be enforced on/off by the mission/server, the 104th would definately disable it - otherwise you'd have people flying around with radar off constantly and hunting for giant aircraft in the distance :)

 

 

 

Have you played BMS? The smart scaling doesn't mean you can see aircraft from across the map, it's "scaling". It becomes large enough to see when you'd see it IRL, and then it's really quite small. Try flying without radar on in BMS, and even at the lowest difficulty setting the AI will shoot you down in MiG-17s before you know what happened.

[Pilotasso]

Ill pass on smart scaling I have BMS and that's precisely what bugs me the most. Everything well...looks out of scale and planes look slow.

[gavagai]

Ill pass on smart scaling I have BMS and that's precisely what bugs me the most. Everything well...looks out of scale and planes look slow.

 

That is not because of smart scaling. What you describe is due to objects like buildings and runways not being 1:1. Smart scaling on or off doesnt change that in falcon.

 

http://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/showthread.php?15820-Mod-Request-Flying-Low-Level/page2

The real reason why you don't get the correct sensation of speed simply is that the "Falcon world" is not using a "correct scale". By comparison, the landmass is much smaller than it actually should be, i.e. the relationship between the aircraft (and other objects) scale and the world scale is wrong, objects (including aircraft, airports, cities etc.) are way too big - or the world is way too small, whatever perspective you prefer.

[/Quote]

Edited June 28, 2014 by gavagai

[SharpeXB]

The best solution for object visibility in flight sims will be 4K video. It's not affordable and widespread yet, but it will be.

[Harpoon]

A good shimmer in the sky on an aircraft due to light reflecting off the Sun (as in RL) plus (maybe) smart scaling would be a pretty good idea. A person with good vision should be able to spot aircraft a far distance away. Very good idea.