F-18 grip, WARTHOG compatible

[7rooper]

I imagine that SDsc0rch has simply trimmed down the detent as I have, and as show in the pic below. Simple case of shaving of a small amount of material with a scalpel/file until you get the desired "push through" effect.

 

I only had to remove a few mm of plastic to end up with a nice solid stop that you can push through by adding just a bit more force than you'd normally use to move the throttles.

 

 

Great tip! Gonna try it!

I hate when I end up lifting up and moving out of place the whole left console to pass through the default detent!

[fruityflyer]

Bit late into finding out about this project but I am very impressed. The shear effort you have put into the project and the amount of sticks, throttle... I am speechless. A few questions if you don't mind ;) Sorry if they have already been covered. How much, if you have some rough price guides, would the stick+base+throttle+throttle base cost? Also, when can we expect to be able to get our hands on some of these such as the fw-190 and f-18?

Thanks,

Ross.

 

P.S. KEEP IT UP, LOVE IT :D

[hegykc]

Here's a "little" update:

 

For the past month or two I have focused my attention to designing the stick and throttle base. It might not be apparent from the renders, but the base is just slightly larger than the warthog one, with a ton more features:

 

 

-steel construction

-separate springs for pitch and roll axis

-adjustable spring strength (by replacing the springs)

-"on the fly" adjustable pre-tension of the springs

-hydraulic damping (adjustable by oil replacement)

-built in stick extension (fully adjustable in length and grip rotation)

-adjustable office chair mount with ability to rotate and fold the whole thing under the seat

-adjustable stick displacement in all directions separately

-functional safety pin and "remove before flight" tag

-ability to connect up to 6 more axis and 40 buttons (I plan on designing replica and "desktop general purpose" type panels to connect to both stick and throttle bases

-tri-axis SPI interface 14-bit resolution hall sensor, programmable in a million ways

-the whole thing is designed per F-18 cockpit station geometry (extension length and grip position) and can be set up to have the same amount of travel/displacement as a real F-18 grip

 

AND a bonus for all of your patience. Fully functional chair mounted ejection handle:

 

 

-all steel construction

-industrial grade shaft bearings for extra smooth pull/slide movement

-dual action ( first it activates No.1 switch, then No.2 switch ) so you can map it to both canopy jettison and seat eject

-functional safety pullout pin (pin operates a slide master switch so no action until you remove the safety tag and the pin)

-possible additional ARM ON/OFF toggle on the top plate?

 

I probably forgot to mention some of the features. Note that this is a still evolving design. Just wanted to let you know that the wheels are still grinding. Most of the work went into re and re-designing, removing part by part, and reducing the size until I was left with the smallest possible container, with the least amount of parts possible to perform the task. And then it was off to designing the tools, jigs and machinery to manufacture each part. If it doesn't have machine/tools designed for it, it is not in the renders. There are no CNC manufactured parts here, which should keep the price way down. Laser cutting steel is still pretty expensive, but i plan to make a few pieces and send them out to respective members of this community for a closed beta test. After we solve any problems, and they put their stamp of approval, they'll do open reviews and I will consider a crowdfunding campaign for a metal laser cutter which will reduce the price by 40-60% as this is the biggest cost and the last piece of the puzzle.

 

F-18 grips alone are pretty much ready for production, but I do not want to improve Thrustmuster or Saitek sales by selling grips only. And that will happen If I get tied up into fulfilling F-18 orders of TM and Saitek compatible grips, and people who want more have to wait unitl I design, test and manufacture my own base system.

I will put the TM and Saitek compatible grips for sale first, but I need to have at least some prototypes of my own system before I do that.

 

Even more important than that, a low price like saitek is only possible through standardization of products, parts and processes. And standardization is only possible if you design multiple products at once. At least a few of them. This constant delays due to research, design and development will save a huge amount of time and money later on.

 

No throttle base renders yet, but expect the same amount of features and configurability.

Edited June 11, 2015 by hegykc

[Revelation]

Looking good, now where is that darn buy button? You keep forgetting to add that to your posts... :megalol::thumbup:

[Strut]

Its looking good Hegykc, your approach to me is logical and im looking forward to your progression. keep up the great work mate. The ejection handle looks great too, but im scared that if i was to bump it i will be looking through my roof at the stars....good stuff

Edited June 11, 2015 by Strut

[McBlemmen]

I'm a little confused , is this still a mod for tm warthogs or is this standalone?

 

If this is infact for the TM warthog , any plans for customers to be able to order a tm warthog witht his package pre-built? I'm a complete moron when it comes to doing stuff like this...

[Potalien]

Mod for x55 and warthog as well as a stand alone product :)

[MTFDarkEagle]

:shocking::notworthy::worthy::surprise:

[lxvanwyk]

I want......and I want now!!!!!!!!!! This is absolute torture to see.......without buy now button

[Farlander]

This is.... INSANE! :D

[ggerman]

These are incredible!!! Bravo!!!

 

Any chance you are developing a version that is mountable in the Obutto cockpits? I use the Obutto Ozone cockpit frame with the Warthog mounting adapters. I'd love to be able to mount YOUR stick base to the same center-seat mount that the Warthog uses! The thing I like about the Obutto is that everything (stick and throttle) is right at the user height with no stick extensions necessary... the mounts are adjustable for height if necessary. I have both a center-mounted Warthog stick for all center-stick fighters and a side-mounted Warthog FSSB V3 for flying the F-16 and all side-stick aircraft.

 

http://www.mainperformancepc.com/product/obutto-gaming-cockpits/obutto-ozone-gaming-cockpit/obutto-ozone-r3volution-a10-thrustmaster-hotas-flight-stick-mount-accessory/

 

Thanks for your continued hard work! I'm already a confirmed customer for you!!

Greg

Edited June 11, 2015 by ggerman

[hansangb]

DAMN! I'm waiting to order the Komodo Sim collective/cyclic for the Huey sim (it's not complete yet), and I'm waiting to receive the MFGs in August. So hopefully by then, I'll be able to order your sticks for the F18/etc.! NICELY DONE!!!! Amazing how much we've come from the days of origina MS Flight sim, Flight of the Intruder, F19 Stealth, Gunship, Falcon 3.0, and Knights of the Sky era!!!

 

Simply amazing.

 

hsb

[hegykc]

Mod for x55 and warthog as well as a stand alone product :)

 

This, for anyone new to the thread.

 

Any chance you are developing a version that is mountable in the Obutto cockpits?

Greg

 

Yes, the stick base is 3/4 of an inch wider than the warthog (in a fully encased version), but uses the same mounting pattern, and has a "zero" length extension too. Same for the throttle base.

 

The pivot point and "zero" length extension of the desktop and chair mounted joystick is the main problem a lot of people have trouble controling an aircraft in high fidelity sims like this.

Warthog in a zero extension length has 1.5 inches of pitch up travel. Since it claims 12bit or 4096 position accuracy, that would mean you have to move the stick by 0.0003 inch increments, which is totally impossible for a human. I say a human can do 1mm or 0.03 increments in arm precision during a flight/combat, which would mean a desktop stick gives you 50 increments of precision.

 

The 5 inches of pitch up ravel that is stated in station geometry mil-spec, and is what I use in my design, brings that number to 166 increments of precision, that's more than 300% increase in available precision, without you as the pilot learning a single thing to make you a better fighter/flier.

 

As I tend to offer these mounting arms and extensions bundled with the base and cheaper then warthog, I hope it would start a small revolution as to how virtual fliers experience the whole thing.

 

Looking at the obutto, the same geometry mounting arm should be possible. I'll look into it, and any other seats suggested.

Edited June 11, 2015 by hegykc

[Sgt_Baker]

"I hope it would start a small revolution as to how virtual fliers experience the whole thing."

 

My name is Sgt Baker and I fully endorse this product.

 

:)

Edited June 11, 2015 by Sgt_Baker

[agrasyuk]

Looks great.

However messege is conflicting a bit. You say you don't want to boost TM sales and want to release grip with base (understandable) , but then you say you will start selling grips without... At any rate this almost sounds like you about to start taking preorders. Just want to make sure my name is on list for a grip.

 

Regards.

[tobaschi]

mhmm did you asked one of the bigger players on the marked Thrustmaster/Saitek/Logitech for a cooperation?

 

Your concepts are looking very good and the market value for pc peripheral (controllers) will see a big increase in the next 1 - 3 years due to the upcoming VR boom.

[SkateZilla]

I need to make my TM Warthog a TM Hornet asap..lol

[hegykc]

Looks great.

However messege is conflicting a bit. You say you don't want to boost TM sales and want to release grip with base (understandable) , but then you say you will start selling grips without... At any rate this almost sounds like you about to start taking preorders. Just want to make sure my name is on list for a grip.

 

Regards.

 

Yes I see now. To make it clearer, it's not that I want to manufacture the base along with the grips, I just want to have the designs in an advanced state of development, ready to be manufactured months after the grips go out for sale. Instead of starting development after the grips go out for sale and have the base ready a year from that and drive customers, who would have waited a few months for me, to TM or Saitek.

 

So now I just have to finish up the early prototype design of the throttle base and then focus shifts back to releasing the compatible F-18 grips for sale. While the grips are selling, people will be aware that there's more coming shortly after, in the meantime base units will go out for testing since the prototype designs were finished while I had no other distractions or responsibilities other than designing them.

 

mhmm did you asked one of the bigger players on the marked Thrustmaster/Saitek/Logitech for a cooperation?

 

Their operation has a massive overhead and I'm not sure they could find profits in this just yet. As the technology and the process matures and develops it might turn out to be possible.

Edited June 11, 2015 by hegykc

[*Rage*]

Wow:)

[Dudikoff]

Awesome! I definitely need a stick and throttle holder mountable on a chair so looking forward to see how this turns out.

[98abaile]

I like the first one, but it's going to need to be mountable on a much thicker desk. The second one I don't think is very good. Mostly because either it would be so far away from you that you wouldn't be able to reach it comfortably or it would be close enough that pulling it back would cause the shaft to hit the chair edge. I don't know about your chair, but my seat is 54cm deep.

[hegykc]

I like the first one, but it's going to need to be mountable on a much thicker desk. The second one I don't think is very good. Mostly because either it would be so far away from you that you wouldn't be able to reach it comfortably or it would be close enough that pulling it back would cause the shaft to hit the chair edge. I don't know about your chair, but my seat is 54cm deep.

 

The extension is not bent in these renders, and the ejection handle will be offset further into the seat but yes, it's a concern. But it needs to be done one way or the other because it would bring an enormous improvement over the desk/chair mounted stick, more improvement than all the other features combined, in my opinion. Especially if it can be done at virtually no price increase at all.

Edited June 11, 2015 by hegykc

[plehmann]

This, for anyone new to the thread.

 

 

 

Yes, the stick base is 3/4 of an inch wider than the warthog (in a fully encased version), but uses the same mounting pattern, and has a "zero" length extension too. Same for the throttle base.

 

The pivot point and "zero" length extension of the desktop and chair mounted joystick is the main problem a lot of people have trouble controling an aircraft in high fidelity sims like this.

Warthog in a zero extension length has 1.5 inches of pitch up travel. Since it claims 12bit or 4096 position accuracy, that would mean you have to move the stick by 0.0003 inch increments, which is totally impossible for a human. I say a human can do 1mm or 0.03 increments in arm precision during a flight/combat, which would mean a desktop stick gives you 50 increments of precision.

 

The 5 inches of pitch up ravel that is stated in station geometry mil-spec, and is what I use in my design, brings that number to 166 increments of precision, that's more than 300% increase in available precision, without you as the pilot learning a single thing to make you a better fighter/flier.

 

As I tend to offer these mounting arms and extensions bundled with the base and cheaper then warthog, I hope it would start a small revolution as to how virtual fliers experience the whole thing.

 

Looking at the obutto, the same geometry mounting arm should be possible. I'll look into it, and any other seats suggested.

 

To lend my support around the obutto R3volution mounting options... so excited about this programme of stuff

[SCPGrinder66]

I'm new to DCS World but I have been following this thread closely. I using a TM Warthog and I just ordered some Crosswinds. Currently flying the F-15C, but the only reason I came to DCS was the upcoming F-14 (and F-18 ). Huge fan of Naval Aviation.

 

I can't get over how well thought out your designs and plans are, and I'm dying to get my hands on these things! Thanks for doing this for us and I'm sure this will be real successful for you. Put me down for one of everything.

[feefifofum]

I am blown away by everything you've posted, and especially happy about your commitment to keeping things affordable, even in a community who have made it clear that we will pay a small fortune for good controls. :joystick:

 

Add another one to the pre-preorder list. :thumbup: