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Alps A320 Crash


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From what I can see here it was a controlled and constant descent from 40 thousand feet, at a constant speed of around 450+ kts.

 

Very sad if this turns out to be an autopilot malfunction that could have been easily noticed and corrected by the crew...

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If that is the case, it violates the first rule of piloting and is something they pound into your head in training..

 

"ALWAYS fly the plane"

 

Even when using aids you must keep track of your plane and what it is doing at all times..

 

Very sad event..

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Really sad, especially with no survivors.

 

Really curious as to what happened here. Especially with the rapid decent to eventual crash, not sure what would cause that to happen.

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Untitled-1wa.jpg

 

From what I can see here it was a controlled and constant descent from 40 thousand feet, at a constant speed of around 450+ kts.

 

Very sad if this turns out to be an autopilot malfunction that could have been easily noticed and corrected by the crew...

 

very sad news :cry:

 

but what i see on the graph: that constant descent was very flat and slow (~9 minutes )

3000 feet/min or 17 m/s descent with idle? power (no acceleration while decreasing altitude) is not an emergency/rapid descent

(pressurization problems???, similar to Helios Airways crash in Greece, 2005 near Athens???) :dunno:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helios_Airways_Flight_522


Edited by NRG-Vampire

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Untitled-1wa.jpg

 

From what I can see here it was a controlled and constant descent from 40 thousand feet, at a constant speed of around 450+ kts.

 

Very sad if this turns out to be an autopilot malfunction that could have been easily noticed and corrected by the crew...

 

I think if the crew wasnt awake in this situation the Speed would have been noticeable higher. Also they did send a stress message.

 

Could be a massive system failure of a significant part of the Aircraft like hydraulics or a strange midair collision.

 

Currently it could have been everything.


Edited by Isegrim

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Air Liners are dropping out of the sky like paper planes. So much for 1 in a 5 milllion.

 

Actually airline crashes were at historic low in 2014. Probably seems worse than it is as they were very high profile ones.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/datablog/2014/dec/29/aircraft-accident-rates-at-historic-low-despite-high-profile-plane-crashes

 

Will be interesting to hear the preliminary report, it seems like a strange one.

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one blackbox was found acording to german tv-news

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CNN is reporting no destress calls where sent from the crew.

 

 

Some say with .... some say without ...> Seems to be unsure, noticed this also.

 

As I understand it, ATC declared an emergency for them once they noticed the rapid and large altitude loss.

 

 

Possible.

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Some say with .... some say without ...> Seems to be unsure, noticed this also.

 

 

 

 

Possible.

 

Its not unsure, all news agencies and ATC are reporting no distress call was received from the aircraft and that ATC raised the alarm.

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Also vert descent rate went as high as 5,000 fpm which is in no way a normal descent rate, av descent rate appears to be around 3,500 fpm which is still way above normal and would indicate an emergency descent initiated by the crew. Speed was also fairly steady at between 460 and 480 Kts during the descent which is well below VNE at that altitude.

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pressurization problems???, similar to Helios Airways crash

Clearly the best fitting scenario to date.

Difference is the descent, that has to be explained (Helios fall when fuel exhausted, as many others in this case, not Germanwings).

I agree that 3,500 fpm in an higher-than-normal RoD, but it's also not enough for an emergency descent flown by the crew following a pressurization loss: higher rates are achievable!

 

I think if the crew wasnt awake in this situation the Speed would have been noticeable higher.

Disagree. Think A/P+A/THR, that does the trick too (and explains much better the no comms situation).

 

Also they did send a stress message.

No. This has now been confirmed as untrue.

 

The original error was from a poor phrasing (in french) from the DGAC (french FAA/CAA) as follows:

News was phrased as "Le vol s'est déclaré en état de détresse à 10 h 47 locale"

Suffice to replace by "Le vol a été déclaré en état de détresse à 10 h 47 locale" to have the correct sentence.

 

In english, that's the fight declared itself in distress at 10:47 local time vs the flight was declared in distress at 10:47 local time [by the ATC services].

 

And that's how you get from a DETRESFA (real situation) to a Mayday (incorrectly assumed).

Main frame media (even french ones) took ages to correct this mistake, even after the DGAC set it right at around 12:40PM local time.


Edited by Azrayen

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I agree that 3,500 fpm in an higher-than-normal RoD, but it's also not enough for an emergency descent flown by the crew following a pressurization loss: higher rates are achievable!

 

i think 3500 fpm is about the "normal" RoD of the autopilot, however if they had an explosion or problem with cabin pressure (sensors) or with oxygen masks they got only TUC ~30 seconds at this altitude, unfortunately

serious emergency descent should be ~15.000-20.000 fpm what can cause a panic onboard immediately (steep bank with negative G at the start) but that extreme RoD can save lives, imho (if there is no structural problem)

 

http://www.skybrary.aero/index.php/Time_of_Useful_Consciousness

http://www.skybrary.aero/index.php/Emergency_Depressurisation

http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/tech_ops/read.main/82291/ - read B747Skipper's post

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A lot of guessing on all fronts. Let's wait for the official statement, they got a black box and sure are going through the data already.

When I read the news, I was simply astonished, as Germanwings is a Lufthansa subsidiary, usually has well maintained planes and experienced pilots... Media said the A320 in question was commissioned in 1991 which isn't very old for a plane. Last major maintenance overhaul was mid of 2013 (corrected).... The possible issue with the autopilot is also unlikely, as exactly for that reason they had the autopilot system replaced.

Really strange... Let's see what they find out. :(


Edited by shagrat
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New info, the Black box seems to be the voive recorder, actually. It is damaged and they continue, trying to get info from it. Speculating seems to go on in the media... ranging from autopilot failure to toxic gases in the cockpit.

At least everybody agrees it was an untypical decent to slow and controlled to be a direct crash, yet no typical maneuver at that point in the flight plan, either.

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A lot of guessing on all fronts. Let's wait for the official statement, they got a black box and sure are going through the data already.

When I read the news, I was simply astonished, as Germanwings is a Lufthansa subsidiary, usually has well maintained planes and experienced pilots... Media said the A320 in question was commissioned in 1991 which isn't very old for a plane. Last major maintenance overhaul was mid of 2014.... The possible issue with the autopilot is also unlikely, as exactly for that reason they had the autopilot system replaced.

Really strange... Let's see what they find out. :(

 

GW rep said on n-tv the plane was overhauled in 2013, not 2014.

 

Yesterday the plane was grounded for many hours due to a wheel door problem, which Lufthansa said is not critical at all and moist likely not

associated with the tragedy.

 

 

 

My thoughts are with the parents as many children were on board.

 

Lost... forever...so many young lives

 

 

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