some1 Posted November 24, 2017 Posted November 24, 2017 Ok, found the site that nicely sums up the use of Harrier in Forward Bases over the years. http://ukarmedforcescommentary.blogspot.com/2014/06/vertical-panic.html While the aircraft was used from FARPs over the years, these are were not a typical FARPs that come to mind after playing DCS, with a few vertical pads for takeoff and landing in the middle of nowhere. Even the rudimentary one in the Falklands had a 250 meters runway for takeoffs. We have to make one thing clear here: the famous airstrips in the woods that we see in photos of the Harrier force in Germany were training sites with a possible but unlikely war role. They were not the actual War Locations. Wartime operations would have happened exploiting stretches of secondary roads in countryside villages and towns, so to have paved surfaces from which to make short take offs and landings. The use of locations carefully selected within villages offered the added benefit of buildings to exploit for the accommodation of supplies, personnel and communications. Supermarkets and other suitable large buildings would be exploited for parking the aircraft away from sight. Hardware: VPForce Rhino, FSSB R3 Ultra, Virpil WarBRD, Hotas Warthog, Winwing F15EX, Slaw Rudder, GVL224 Trio Throttle, Thrustmaster MFDs, Saitek Trim wheel, Trackir 5, Quest Pro
Sephyrius Posted November 24, 2017 Posted November 24, 2017 From that article. The Atlantic Conveyor also transported all the equipment to build an Harrier Forward Air Base ashore, which was to include vertical landing pads and a 400 meters runway, plus fuel infrastructure and command and control sufficient to base and operate a squadron of 12 aircraft.So I guess the DCS equivalent would be a FARP placed next to a suitable road, but sadly the FARP block is elevated massively (to deal with the roughest of terrains I'm guessing) which makes that seemingly impossible to pull off unless there's a way to lower it. But sure, landing pads only in the middle of nowhere wouldn't make sense, it's not as if landable surfaces are rare enough of a commodity to go to such extremes.
Harry.R Posted November 24, 2017 Posted November 24, 2017 A Harrier needs a length of runway/road/matting/hard grass to get airborne with a useful fuel/weapons load, although it can recover vertically after most of the fuel and weapons are expended. IIRC DCS FARPs were designed with helicopters in mind.
Dave317 Posted November 24, 2017 Posted November 24, 2017 It would be nice if instead of the current farp we could refuel and rearm within a radius of say a refuel truck. This would mean mission designers could make much more concealed and realistic farps for both the harrier and helicopters.
Harry.R Posted November 24, 2017 Posted November 24, 2017 It would be nice if instead of the current farp we could refuel and rearm within a radius of say a refuel truck. This would mean mission designers could make much more concealed and realistic farps for both the harrier and helicopters. I'm sure the Viggen guys were going to implement something like that, you could order them to meet you somewhere on the map? The ability to drop a NATO 'T' (although off topic) and have a nearby tanker for helicopters would also be good. Although we talk of FARPS, the DCS maps have plenty of airfields, these would be FOBs (Forward Operating Base) and would be where most of the fleet would live and operate during any operation.
SkateZilla Posted November 24, 2017 Posted November 24, 2017 take off from farps w/ minimal fuel then top off airborne. Windows 10 Pro, Ryzen 2700X @ 4.6Ghz, 32GB DDR4-3200 GSkill (F4-3200C16D-16GTZR x2), ASRock X470 Taichi Ultimate, XFX RX6800XT Merc 310 (RX-68XTALFD9) 3x ASUS VS248HP + Oculus HMD, Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS + MFDs
Dudikoff Posted November 24, 2017 Posted November 24, 2017 (edited) although it can recover vertically after most of the fuel and weapons are expended. Yeah, but realistically, not just about anywhere. It can damage the landing surface and FOD damage is a big threat apparently, so they always seems to have used specially prepared landing pads. take off from farps w/ minimal fuel then top off airborne. Doesn't that kill the whole purpose of having these things? If there's air tanker support, then there's a good chance there's a proper runway in the theater (or a carrier) and you could have normal airplanes on CAS standby using those same tankers and carrying a much more useful load and probably for less money, too. And it's probably cheaper than investing into these damn things, maintaining them, keeping the pilots current, building special pads in the theater so they can even land, provide them air cover, etc. just so that the USMC can have its own air force. :) Don't get me wrong, it will be cool to fly them in the DCS, but I'm not convinced they're a necessity for the US armed forces. Edited November 24, 2017 by Dudikoff i386DX40@42 MHz w/i387 CP, 4 MB RAM (8*512 kB), Trident 8900C 1 MB w/16-bit RAMDAC ISA, Quantum 340 MB UDMA33, SB 16, DOS 6.22 w/QEMM + Win3.11CE, Quickshot 1btn 2axis, Numpad as hat. 2 FPH on a good day, 1 FPH avg. DISCLAIMER: My posts are still absolutely useless. Just finding excuses not to learn the F-14 (HB's Swansong?). Annoyed by my posts? Please consider donating. Once the target sum is reached, I'll be off to somewhere nice I promise not to post from. I'd buy that for a dollar!
SUNTSAG Posted November 24, 2017 Posted November 24, 2017 I will just leave this here :thumbup: 1 Callsign: NAKED My YouTube Channel [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
BlazingTrigger Posted November 24, 2017 Posted November 24, 2017 Amazing Suntsag!! The harrier can use a small 400m dedicated strip to takeoff from such as this example in Norfolk, UK. Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk
javelina1 Posted November 24, 2017 Posted November 24, 2017 I will just leave this here :thumbup: why your heartless b*st*rd! Love it!! :thumbup:;):D MSI MAG Z790 Carbon, i9-13900k, NH-D15 cooler, 64 GB CL40 6000mhz RAM, MSI RTX4090, Yamaha 5.1 A/V Receiver, 4x 2TB Samsung 980 Pro NVMe, 1x 2TB Samsung 870 EVO SSD, Win 11 Pro, TM Warthog, Virpil WarBRD, MFG Crosswinds, 43" Samsung 4K TV, 21.5 Acer VT touchscreen, TrackIR, Varjo Aero, Wheel Stand Pro Super Warthog, Phanteks Enthoo Pro2 Full Tower Case, Seasonic GX-1200 ATX3 PSU, PointCTRL, Buttkicker 2, K-51 Helicopter Collective Control
Harry.R Posted November 24, 2017 Posted November 24, 2017 Yeah, but realistically, not just about anywhere. It can damage the landing surface and FOD damage is a big threat apparently, so they always seems to have used specially prepared landing pads.[/Quote] In real life landing surfaces are checked first by a team of qualified people to make sure that they are suitable for Harrier operations, the aircraft don't just turn up and land anywhere. Not like I do in DCS...:D
Esac_mirmidon Posted November 24, 2017 Posted November 24, 2017 I´m not saying a Harrier´s FARP is a single Helipad 20x20 meters size. I´m saying Harriers FARP deployment is or could be a Supermarket parking, a road section, a metallic construction by Reg. Engineers, anything about 300-400 long, with pads for landing or an even paved surface or parking is enough. " You must think in russian.." [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Windows 7 Home Premium-Intel 2500K OC 4.6-SSD Samsung EVO 860- MSI GTX 1080 - 16G RAM - 1920x1080 27´ Hotas Rhino X-55-MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedals -Track IR 4
drPhibes Posted November 24, 2017 Posted November 24, 2017 In real life landing surfaces are checked first by a team of qualified people to make sure that they are suitable for Harrier operations, the aircraft don't just turn up and land anywhere. Not like I do in DCS...:D Case in point, somewhere in Switzerland some time in the nineties (or perhaps eighties?). That turned out well :p
Harry.R Posted November 24, 2017 Posted November 24, 2017 (edited) Case in point, somewhere in Switzerland some time in the nineties (or perhaps eighties?). That turned out well :p https://tacairnet.com/2016/08/10/watch-this-raf-harrier-destroy-part-of-a-runway-with-its-thrust/ Typical 3 Sqn...Any jet would have done this to be fair. In the UK this year a Vampire jet ripped up a runway taking off for a display. Edited November 24, 2017 by Harry.R
Ramsay Posted November 24, 2017 Posted November 24, 2017 Case in point, somewhere in Switzerland some time in the nineties (or perhaps eighties?). That turned out well :p Two years previous (1978 ), there wasn't the same issue (perhaps the Bex taxiway 'improvement' was a later addition). As for FOD, just keep the aircraft's forward momentum so it keeps out of the dust cloud - a simpler time, I wouldn't want to do the risk assessment today lol. i9 9900K @4.8GHz, 64GB DDR4, RTX4070 12GB, 1+2TB NVMe, 6+4TB HD, 4+1TB SSD, Winwing Orion 2 F-15EX Throttle + F-16EX Stick, TPR Pedals, TIR5, Win 11 Pro x64, Odyssey G93SC 5120X1440
BlazingTrigger Posted November 24, 2017 Posted November 24, 2017 Two years previous (1978 ), there wasn't the same issue (perhaps the Bex taxiway 'improvement' was a later addition). As for FOD, just keep the aircraft's forward momentum so it keeps out of the dust cloud - a simpler time, I wouldn't want to do the risk assessment today lol.FOD isn't just about a dust cloud, the amount of air that the intake is sucking in makes it a very expensive hoover, a loose stone can easily be sucked up into the engine, dust isn't an issue but stones, other organic and man made matter is a hazard. Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk
Zeus67 Posted November 25, 2017 Posted November 25, 2017 Nozzle glow now has a daylight factor. "Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning." "The three most dangerous things in the world are a programmer with a soldering iron, a hardware type with a program patch and a user with an idea."
rrohde Posted November 25, 2017 Posted November 25, 2017 :thumbup: PC: AMD Ryzen 9 5950X | MSI Suprim GeForce 3090 TI | ASUS Prime X570-P | 128GB DDR4 3600 RAM | 2TB Samsung 870 EVO SSD | Win10 Pro 64bit Gear: HP Reverb G2 | JetPad FSE | VKB Gunfighter Pro Mk.III w/ MCG Ultimate VKBcontrollers.com
Vitormouraa Posted November 25, 2017 Posted November 25, 2017 Much much better! SplashOneGaming Discord https://splashonegaming.com
Zeus67 Posted November 25, 2017 Posted November 25, 2017 Nozzles glowing at night: 1 "Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning." "The three most dangerous things in the world are a programmer with a soldering iron, a hardware type with a program patch and a user with an idea."
Pipe Posted November 25, 2017 Posted November 25, 2017 29th yet??? Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk i7 4770k @ 4.5, asus z-87 pro, strix GTX 980ti directcu3oc, 32gb Kingston hyperX 2133, philips 40" 4k monitor, hotas cougar\warthog, track ir 5, Oculus Rift
WarHawk72 Posted November 25, 2017 Posted November 25, 2017 Looks great Zeus, can not wait to start learning this bird. Decided not to read the quick guide until i have the harrier...want to go in fresh and crash many times!
joey45 Posted November 25, 2017 Posted November 25, 2017 Looking awesome. on ma mobile The only way to make sense out of change is to plunge into it, move with it, and join the dance. "Me, the 13th Duke of Wybourne, here on the ED forums at 3 'o' clock in the morning, with my reputation. Are they mad.." https://ko-fi.com/joey45
=DECOY= Posted November 25, 2017 Posted November 25, 2017 4 more sleeps ;) Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk Water cooled i9-9900K | Maximus Code XI MB | RTX3090 | 64GB | HP Reverb G2
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