Learning again

[FFOman]

Many here may remember my getting ready to learn the basic ropes here a year or more ago. I had hoped to get started with DCS as I was retiring and would at last be able to give it the attention it deserved. Unfortunately things didn't work out quite the way I planned them...especially as regards my retirement and free time! But now I'm back again, fully retired and otherwise unencumbered.

 

What I would like to do now is concentrate on just one of two planes I really like. The P-51D and the Warthog. So as I'm just starting, which of these two choices will be best? Which will provide me with a quicker and more fun level of experience at the fastest rate? Which offers the most as far as campaigns and multiplayer?

 

Can anyone tell me and/or offer me the best way to go at this? I'm not looking for instruction except perhaps as might be had by flying alongside another more experienced pilot during friendly multiplayer flights

 

Any help, consideration, flying experience and or evaluation will be greatly appreciated!

[jcbak]

I love both aircraft. Both will take some time. Systems-wise the A10C will offer the biggest challenge. Flying the P51D and learning A2A combat will offer a huge challenge as well. It comes down to what you prefer. For me...hands down....the A10C will offer the most opportunities for multiplayer and diverse missions. That's not a criticism of the P51D because it is great. You really can't go wrong either way. I'm very much looking forward to a WWII map and possibly joining a group devoted to it. As far as I'm concerned, the learning is the most fun.....humiliating and frustrating....but fun nonetheless.

[Blooze]

I feel sure that you will find many more opportunities to learn and fly with other pilots by choosing the A-10C rather than the P-51, at least until a true WWII map becomes available. Although it is the most challenging to learn IMO it offers the greatest rewards for having done so. Click HERE for some of the best video tutorials available for the A-10C and feel free to ask questions in the forums as well. There are many veteran pilots that will be happy to help you learn. Of course you would be wise to commit to reading the flight manual as your primary source of info and I recommend paying a few bucks to get a printed version made. If you should decide to opt for the A-10C, when you have learned the basics regarding the aircraft's systems and weapons you may want to consider joining a like minded group for some multiplayer action. That's when the real fun begins and the learning process accelerates from learning from other more experienced pilots.

[hansangb]

If you go to lula.com, you can search for DCS and you'll see the manual. It's like $40, if I recall. (in black and white - color ones were like $200)

 

As others have said, P51 is much easier to get started simply because it does not have modern avionics. There are not MFDs, TGPs, SOI, UFC, TMS to worry about! :) But like the Huey, P51 really does require rudders. Just an FYI.

 

So it's really your choice. But do check out (as a start) http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=135765

Edited January 17, 2016 by hansangb

[Yurgon]

Learning the basics in the P-51D was a nice and welcome change, what a beautiful module!

 

But I can't put the A-10C aside, nor praise it enough. I've flown many DCS-supplied and user made missions and campaigns, both Single- and Multiplayer, and I never stop learning new stuff. This module is so incredibly detailed, if your enjoyment of a good challenge is even remotely like mine, this will be a hugely rewarding experience for years to come!

 

The really cool thing is that the A-10C is pretty easy to fly, I'd call it very beginner friendly. You'll get the hang of Maverick employment and gun runs quickly, and CCIP/CCRP with guided and unguided bombs aren't that difficult after all. Doing it well on the other hand... let me just repeat that I'm still learning. :thumbup:

 

Oh, one more thing: just recently there was a Q&A session with a retired A-10 pilot and instructor. Besides being tremendously interesting and informative, the cool thing is that I understood what he said (the acronyms, button names, bomb types, aircraft update suites etcetera), even though I never sat in the real jet - that's how close to real life the DCS A-10C is. Simply put, I love that module!

[Oscar Juliet]

If you can learn the A10c you can learn any other aircraft in DCS with ease. I suggest the A10c and I will train people who can fly the aircraft and been over the training modules at least once. I have some good missions to train with. See my signature for details. If interested. PM me. I also play on some online servers. You can always tag along if you want.

 

A10c will have the most missions/campaigns and fun in DCS world. It has been around forever. I spent 4-6 hours a day for 1.5 weeks. I flew and watched youtube videos. I took notes on all training missions within DCS and any unanswered questions were followed up with google and youtube. I have pages of notes for procedures with the A10c. After flying solid for about 2.5 weeks now and training another guy. I'm deadly with this machine. Take notes...best way to reference when you forget.

Edited January 18, 2016 by Oscar Juliet

[FFOman]

Thanx for all the great responses! And based on what was said here and what I've already learned, I think I'll pick the A10c as my starting aircraft. I've gone thru the manual already but am sure its digital edges will be quite frayed before I'm done with it , but I haven't seen any training missions for this aircraft...where are they? Is there any reason I should NOT start flying under simple avionics until such time as I feel comfortable and ready to move on? Same questions for all settings from No Damage to Easy Weapon control and radar?

 

Also, I have a choice of using the Thrustmaster T.Flight Hotas X with the throttle and lots of other programmable buttons on a detachable section, OR the Thrustmaster T.16000M in which the throttle and rudder controls are added onto the single stick base. And finally, does anyone have a good setup file for either of these controls I can begin with?

 

Thanx again!

[Kimi_uy]

but I haven't seen any training missions for this aircraft...where are they?

 

Once you buy the module the training missions will become available.

 

Is there any reason I should NOT start flying under simple avionics until such time as I feel comfortable and ready to move on?

 

Sacrilege!!!! You will learn nothing in this mode. Its the "HAWX" version of the game

[baltic_dragon]

Is there any reason I should NOT start flying under simple avionics until such time as I feel comfortable and ready to move on? Same questions for all settings from No Damage to Easy Weapon control and radar?

 

As Kimi_uy says. The only way to learn this module is by patience and training, training, training. You will learn absolutely nothing by using simple mode (same goes for simple radio) and if anything, it will just give you some false customs which you will then have to forget. So take your time, one system by another, and learn it in the realistic mode :thumbup:

[AtaliaA1]

Those saying use "Realistic" mode and nothing else are ignoring the fact that you will die in the same spot 12 times before you realize all you need to do is duck.

 

No one would ask you to go up against the very best pro basketball player or golf pro with out first learning to "Fly". You can die and restart the Sim. 12 times in a row or you can use game mode to see how you are doing and what you need to do, say like to avoid a missile coming at you.

 

There is a difference between being patient and being,,,,,,,,,,well you fill in the word.

[Yurgon]

No one would ask you to go up against the very best pro basketball player or golf pro with out first learning to "Fly".

 

But isn't that just it - learning to fly?

 

Using your image, we're talking about a basketball that defies the laws of physics. It's so ridiculously easy to handle you can even beat the pros at their game. But as soon as you switch to "real" physics, all you do is lose, lose, and lose all over again because all of a sudden everybody except you knows how to handle it.

 

My impression is that by learning the A-10C with simplified physics, we'd learn all the wrong things in all the wrong ways, and later on it would require massive amounts of re-learning everything.

 

On the upside, the A-10C is really easy to fly, compared to most DCS modules. IMHO it's a perfect aircraft in which to learn the basics of flying, and then gradually advance on all the systems that also make it an incredibly deadly and accurate fighter. :thumbup:

[baltic_dragon]

Those saying use "Realistic" mode and nothing else are ignoring the fact that you will die in the same spot 12 times before you realize all you need to do is duck.

 

No one would ask you to go up against the very best pro basketball player or golf pro with out first learning to "Fly". You can die and restart the Sim. 12 times in a row or you can use game mode to see how you are doing and what you need to do, say like to avoid a missile coming at you.

 

There is a difference between being patient and being,,,,,,,,,,well you fill in the word.

 

True if you just jump heads-on into the normal missions, which you shouldn't do.

You need to learn one thing at a time, and for the first part of your training (which can take weeks) just learn to handle the aircraft and use all the systems, only then trying to attack targets that will not shoot back at you. The sim even has real-life training mode implemented, and I used this quite a lot when learning (for realism more than anything else). I don't think DCS is a product for just getting straight into dense action. You have to prepare yourself and taking it slowly will spare you the feeling AtaliaA1 describes.. well, at least will make it easier.

[MasterZelgadis]

You won't learn anything in simple mode. You learn how to do it wrong. When you have learned that, you can switch to realistic mode and learn everything again, because you will - just like now - get shot down or fall out of the sky like a brick because suddenly there is such a nasty thing called physics.

Why learn twice, when you can learn the reall thing the first time?

Especially if you plan to fly with real people some time, in multiplayer.

 

The most important thing: this is not a game! It's a study sim. You have to learn. Maybe that is not what you were looking for, but that's how it is.

[Durnox]

And one more opinion :-) :smartass:

 

If you really want to get into DCS the A10-C is simply perfect. Some guys say it is most challenging - I would NOT sign that!

 

Yes, it is VERY complex and you CAN spend weeks, month, years to learn every detail, BUT you DONT NEED to learn everything at once.

 

The big advantage: This thing is easy to fly, it has all "components" which are more or less common to all jets (engine, APU, CDU) - so knowing this stuff from here you'll learn the other jets much easier.

 

The only REAL challenge in the beginning is the start up and the overview, where to find what. But there are lots of checklists to get through - and this you should train until you can startup this thing blindly. This also gets you in touch with most systems. Then try to (roughly) understand each step what is happening there - what is the battery doing, the inverter, the apu, the generator(s), CDU, Radio(s), external/internal lights....

 

Next: Taxi, Start, Flying straight, flying curves, landing.

 

..and finally dig into the complex systems, learn advanced flying (navigation, landing with crosswind, during fog or night, with damage, flying in "ant's knee height" through canyons, air refuelling, weapon deployment, countermeasures)

 

Finally: Have a look at the mapleflag missions. They could support your learning quite well

[scotth6]

After owning the boxed version of A-10C for years and only recently getting the chance to install it, I am now going through the learning process for the A-10C; and it is going to be a challenge. I just finished the Navigation training, and I am going to have to go back and redo the navigation training and start up training probably several times. I also just setup my HOTAS Warthog and rudder pedals which have been sitting in a box for six months, and I have to say it has put a whole new spin on flying in DCS World and FSX and P3D.

 

I used to spend most of my time in FSX, even getting in to scenery design, which took up a lot of free time, but now I am making time for DCS World and really enjoying it. I bought quite a few of the modules during sales last year along with the Mirage recently, and I am enjoying every aircraft immensely. It's really great flying aircraft with such in depth systems, awesome sounds (Mig-15 cannon - whoa) and incredible flight dynamics.

 

In regard to the OP's question, I have only tried the A-10C and not the P-51, but I am enjoying every step of the learning curve of the A-10C, so would highly recommend it. There is plenty to learn.

 

Cheers,

[311Gryphon]

For me the A-10C was easier in a way. There is more to learn but you can get to a point where it is enjoyable sooner than the P-51. I say that, but it is just my own experience. I think the P-51 would be rewarding because I think it forces you to be a better pilot first.

 

As for the sim VS game modes, I never played game mode until recently and with the A-10C I found it more difficult in many ways. You get more visual cues to help you figure out where targets are, so that was easy, but using the systems is easier once you learn to do it more or less correctly in sim mode.

 

At any rate, good luck OP! Enjoy it!

[FFOman]

I appreciate all the responses and will take them to heart. It looks like the A-10C is for me. Nothing that ugly can be all bad! And confidentially, I tried Hawk 2 and trashed it after a few start ups because I DO want to learn the right way! Now I must ask if I need anything other than the modules text book to learn? Someone mention a specific set of training missions including one called MapleFlag. What exactly is this and where is it? Finally, one of the more difficult challenges for me after using the TM T.16000M joystick for so long in space sims, is setting up my new stick, the TM T.Flight Hotas X properly. Have a good average setup to start with will allow me to get my mindset where it belongs as I begin. Later I can adjust it to suit my particular needs. So if anyone has a good setup for this Hotas Stick I would greatly appreciate a copy or setup list. Thanx in advance!

[Razor18]

Someone mention a specific set of training missions including one called MapleFlag. What exactly is this and where is it?

 

Well, I always try to search first (Forum/Google) before asking, to avoid looking lazy, but if you don't want to, I'll do it for you: look up DCS home page and go to Downloads/User files. Or look up Google for "mapleflagmissions blog". Sorry, I can't help you any more... :D

[Yurgon]

There are many ways to approach the sim, you should find the one that works best for you. :thumbup:

 

A few tips from my experience: Do the in-game-trainings first. They show you the basic cockpit layout, explain some of the fundamentals and guide you through some simple procedures.

 

Personally, I prefer to set up my own HOTAS controls. Check the section in the manual for Stick and Throttle. Most of the buttons there are important and you should find a way to map them to your own HOTAS.

 

The manual is a tremendously detailed resource for information on the A-10C. Many people suggest reading it in full. Personally, I use it to look up stuff I'd like to learn more about, but I never read it in full - I think of it as a reference manual.

 

YouTube is full of vids on the DCS A-10C. Just be aware that many people are eager to share whatever they think they know - but what they teach might be wrong, or lack the necessary explanations to be actually useful. Always be careful and keep in mind that nobody is perfect. Double-check and cross-check everything if you can. Hint: People who arm the ejection seat while they're parked inside a hangar should not be considered too trustworthy. :D

(I know I've given bad advice in the past, when I thought I knew something, only to be corrected by people who did know, and I'm glad they told me, or else I would have kept on spreading wrong knowledge. The thing is, I was so sure I knew what I was talking about... :music_whistling:)

 

Take it one step at a time. I know the urge to drop bombs ASAP, but when I find I can't even fly a level turn without losing or gaining several thousand feet, I know I should get back to the basics. :smartass:

 

Set realistic goals, and try not to advance too far unless you've achieved them.

 

And always be ready to learn. I can't stress this enough, I've flown the A-10C since Beta and I'm still learning new stuff all the time. :thumbup:

[FFOman]

To: Razor 18

 

I have a very good reason for asking or answering questions as soon as I'm notified of a thread continuation. I'm not lazy and did a search right after I read the post, but had I not replied I would not have been notified of any future comments in this thread. I'm much too busy to rely on myself for checking back on a thread so I may ask what appears to be a dumb or lazy question but will usually answer it in the thread later to make up for the truly lazy guy who gives only partial information to a question. Proper protocol when giving information to be found on the net is to give a complete address unless one doesn't know it him or her self...in which case I try to respond with the full necessary information needed to find it! I came here for real and valued information, not to put up with juvenile name calling. If YOUR time is so valuable so as to prevent you're giving the full information needed but that allows you to be insulting, perhaps you need to rethink your reason for answering at all! nuff said!

[FFOman]

Now that's what I consider a helpful and honest post Yurgon! I think I'm beyond bouncing myself off the ceiling of a hanger, and I doubt very much that I'll pull the gear up while still on the ground. <g> My experiances have led me to having little choice but to self-teach myself many things from manuals and textbooks, most recently in the field of programming, and before that in the photographic sciences, so I already know your advice about how to approach the manual is right on! But what worries me about setting up the Hotas BEFORE having enough experience to show me how best to set my controls up is that I may become adjusted to a particular setup now that I'll find lacking in practical use later on when it will be much harder to change. I've encountered problems like this in other sims already By starting out with a setup I may at first find a little off, but later right on the money, I'll have solved one technical problem BEFORE it actually becomes a problem But I can live with it if I must!

[hansangb]

Well, he did add the smiley emoticon signifying it's in jest, no?

 

But back on point, I find thread/forum searches to be too liberal. It's like AltaVista all over again. I typically search using google. Say I'm looking for that post about foldable Warthog pit/stand:

 

Goto Google (or google search bar)

site:forums.eagle.ru foldable pit

[Yurgon]

I've encountered problems like this in other sims already By starting out with a setup I may at first find a little off, but later right on the money, I'll have solved one technical problem BEFORE it actually becomes a problem But I can live with it if I must!

 

I see.

 

I'd look in Input and Output and more specifically in the Profiles directory thread. A quick search came up empty for the T16000, but the T-Flight HOTAS seems to be present with one or more profiles.

 

Since it's not 1:1 the same as the A-10C's stick and throttle, I don't think there's such a thing as a wrong setup, just maybe some that work better and others that don't work quite as good.

 

If at all financially possible, I can't recommend the TM Warthog enough, though. It's almost Plug&Fly with with the A-10C and also works very well with all the other modules. But it is quite expensive. And since it doesn't have a twist grip, rudder pedals are an almost mandatory addition, further increasing the price tag. :(

 

On the up-side, mine has served me flawlessly for years (still does), and rudder pedals are great in any case. ;)

[FFOman]

I have no idea what a "foldable Warthog pit/stand" might be, but you can be sure I'll search for it!

I've seen the TM Warthog but as I am unable to use pedals I went with the T.16000M instead, and then the Hotas. You're right of course, there's no "wrong" way to setup a stick. How one does this depends on what the user requires to be quickly available and how / how much he or she wants to make use of the keyboard. How one goes about such things can't be a state secret though so I like to see how others have dealt with them.