Normandy Map Discussion

[REDEYE_CVW-66]

To include all aspects of the most complex operation in history, is not within the scope of this sim as I see it. That means nothing as regards to every country's contribution, it is what is deemed the most relevant from the air war persective.

 

Not an expert on french military history- but I would assume this-

 

The french resistance would do the vast majority of their work out of sight and in the cover of darkness. Out of sight of most regular soldiers, not to mention pilots. The RESULTS of their work however, blown bridges, rail lines etc- can be seen and to some degree shown in the sim.

 

The French Army was integrated into the US army, and cut loose to take the spearhead entrance into Paris (Lots of politics in that one), but they used US equipment and vehicles and can be represented in the sim.

 

The Free French Air Force operated (mostly) under the RAF umbrella, using British equipment and organzation and can be represented in the sim.

 

First and foremost this is a map for AIRPLANES, but using assets to represent (as in not do the real thing, but something that looks like it) a period battlefield of the most iconic machines.

 

I don't see the problem.

 

(EDIT- sorry Sith- did not see your post until after I posted)

[NeilWillis]

Only if it's Combined Arms compatible

 

Don't you mean combine harvester compatible?

[wolle]

The more we ask ED to add the later the map will come out. I am more than willing to live with an incomplete asset pack if that means I can get my hands on the Normandy map sooner!

[Brigg]

Don't you mean combine harvester compatible?

 

:megalol:

[NineLine]

(EDIT- sorry Sith- did not see your post until after I posted)

 

No worries... another more relevant addition needs to be the Spitfire added to the French Coalition in the sim as the No. 341 Squadron RAF flew LF Spitfire IX aircraft at some point as well I believe. This was a Free French Squadron.

[NeilWillis]

French and Canadian forces used US and British equipment. If you can tell what nationality any ground forces are just by looking at them from 1000 ft plus, you're a better man than me!

 

As for the impact of resistance forces on the day and in the weeks that followed, I suggest you read up a little about the reality of resistance forces, and ignore the rose-tinted hype.

 

Should we have Canadian units - hell yes! We should even have French. But to make an issue out of the lack of them in the asset pack list is being just a little absurd. They used Sherman tanks - check. They wore British and American uniforms - Check. They flew Spitfires - Check. They used Cromwell tanks too - Check. Hell they even drove Willy's Jeeps - Check. So we already have plenty of representation in the asset pack.

 

Where is this alleged lack of French and Canadian coverage? What about the Romanian, Russian, Hungarian, Israeli, Indian, Australian and New Zealand soldiers that also participated? Jeez guys let's not be quite so touchy, and stop trying to find problems that simply aren't a factor when you're flying over them. Unless of course you think there are divisional patches on all those little guys down there!

[Andy1966]

French and Canadian forces used US and British equipment. If you can tell what nationality any ground forces are just by looking at them from 1000 ft plus, you're a better man than me!

 

As for the impact of resistance forces on the day and in the weeks that followed, I suggest you read up a little about the reality of resistance forces, and ignore the rose-tinted hype.

 

Should we have Canadian units - hell yes! We should even have French. But to make an issue out of the lack of them in the asset pack list is being just a little absurd. They used Sherman tanks - check. They wore British and American uniforms - Check. They flew Spitfires - Check. They used Cromwell tanks too - Check. Hell they even drove Willy's Jeeps - Check. So we already have plenty of representation in the asset pack.

 

Where is this alleged lack of French and Canadian coverage? What about the Romanian, Russian, Hungarian, Israeli, Indian, Australian and New Zealand soldiers that also participated? Jeez guys let's not be quite so touchy, and stop trying to find problems that simply aren't a factor when you're flying over them. Unless of course you think there are divisional patches on all those little guys down there!

 

:thumbup: ++1

[BaD CrC]

Yes, NeilWillis, you got some very valid points. I didn't want to spoil this thread, but I felt a bit offended. Let's wait and see what ED will do.

[MegOhm_SD]

I just wish for some French Girls in the Countryside so they can console me and nurse me back to health after I get shot down.

[firmek]

Few questions which might have been already addressed.

1. Will the landing ships be able to get on-shore and off-load troops/vehicles

2. Are the air-desant operations being addressed? I don't see any paratrooper units on the list, nor the planes like DC-3, C-47

3. Are CG-4 Waco gliders considered?

4. The ships list looks quite slim to be honest. Are there more considered?

5. ETA for other nations? Canada, Poland, Australia, Free France, New Zeeland, Norway, Holland, Belgium.

6. Is there an intention to create a working V1 launchers and missiles?

7. Does the map come with a build-in German coastal defence (part of Atlantic wal). If not are there a structures which mission designers could use to set them up? Bunkers, landing crafts blockers, etc...

8. Are there planed any changes related to the triggers engine - for instance an easy way to identify if a bridge or a ground object have been destroyed?

9. Flak guns. Will the AI be able to work as a batteries capable to utilize different strategies (like barrage) or just as an individual, separate units?

[klem]

Ok. Don't want to start an uproar here. And yes Manowar, if the map was taking place in the south of france and before 1944, Vichy forces should be mentioned somehow.

Fyi, the french resistance was tasked as follows for operation overlord:

Plan Vert-a systematic sabotage campaign to destroy the French railroad system.

Plan Rouge-to attack and destroy all German ammunition dumps across France.

Plan Bleu-to attack and destroy all power lines across France.

Plan Violet-to attack and destroy phone lines in France.

Plan Jaune-to attack German command posts.

Plan Noir-to attack German fuel depots.

Plan Tortue-to sabotage the roads of France.

 

Let's be careful with the "it's just a game" excuse. It is fine as long as you fight hypothetical wars between east and west over caucasus in an undefined period ( although georgians might object) or fight the russians in the streets of las vegas, but you are now dealing with a very precise period of History, and a sensitive one. So there is some level of responsability to take.

 

The French resistance did extremely important work both before and after D-Day but I doubt they wore official uniforms. Anyway, what about the Poles. Where are their uniformed soldiers?

 

Personally I don't think I could tell the difference from above 500 feet.

[aileron]

Stupid question but I'm going to preface it first.

 

It appears to me that DCS has not attempted to make this a full up Electronic Battlefield (considering how difficult that would be.) An Electronic Battlefield would have FPS modules, Tank Modules, Naval Modules, Map modules, and Flight Modules all interacting together within a campaign engine within DCS world. We're not there so this seriously limits what can be expected.

 

Considering how Infantry digs in and fights street to street, Bocage to Bocage, hedge to hedge... this is not something I imagine is done in DCS.

 

Even Tanks probably have a difficult time tactically moving within the map.

 

So question is because DCS is a flight sim and I know the tanks can take each other out, what impact does infantry have against each other and other ground assets/air assets? Also can they move tactically (i.e. find cover, etc) across the map?

Edited April 6, 2017 by aileron

[firmek]

...Anyway, what about the Poles. Where are their uniformed soldiers?..

Soldiers would be a good starting point. Apart of soldiers there should be also emblems for both ground and air units as also neval units (submarines, cruisers, destroyers, utility, etc..).

I really hope that ED moves forwards and at some point of time it'll be possible to create a complete and historically adequate Normandy operations. There are some mayor gaps to cover as based on the initiall release content it'll we'll have to wait till setting up even a major events like Falaise battle may be possible without workarounds.

[NineLine]

Soldiers would be a good starting point. Apart of soldiers there should be also emblems for both ground and air units as also neval units (submarines, cruisers, destroyers, utility, etc..).

I really hope that ED moves forwards and at some point of time it'll be possible to create a complete and historically adequate Normandy operations. There are some mayor gaps to cover as based on the initiall release content it'll we'll have to wait till setting up even a major events like Falaise battle may be possible without workarounds.

 

I agree and disagree... I mean no, we cant set up a true to life Normandy invasion, and we might never have every unit used in that. But I feel like we will have enough to do a very reasonable representation of some of the events that took place on June 6th and after. Of course not right at release, but as we go along, it will get better and better.

[kontiuka]

And we shouldn't get our hopes up toooooo much. Remember. This is one map and one era of hopefully many.

[Andy1966]

And we shouldn't get our hopes up toooooo much. Remember. This is one map and one era of hopefully many.

 

:thumbup:+1 And at pre-purchase release next month it will be ground breaking.

 

Sure, it's been a long time coming, and its still WIP, but its here very soon and I don't know about you, but I'm HYPED and it's only going to get better from release onward.

[NeilWillis]

Yes, NeilWillis, you got some very valid points. I didn't want to spoil this thread, but I felt a bit offended. Let's wait and see what ED will do.

 

I can understand why you would feel that way. One thing you can guarantee is that no slight was intended. Resources are always a finite thing, and it is natural for ED to concentrate on getting the core items out there. My experience here says that interested parties will start the process of modding as soon as the map and asset pack arrive. No doubt we will start to see the less central units appearing before too long.

[OnlyforDCS]

Stupid question but I'm going to preface it first.

 

It appears to me that DCS has not attempted to make this a full up Electronic Battlefield (considering how difficult that would be.) An Electronic Battlefield would have FPS modules, Tank Modules, Naval Modules, Map modules, and Flight Modules all interacting together within a campaign engine within DCS world. We're not there so this seriously limits what can be expected.

 

Considering how Infantry digs in and fights street to street, Bocage to Bocage, hedge to hedge... this is not something I imagine is done in DCS.

 

Even Tanks probably have a difficult time tactically moving within the map.

 

So question is because DCS is a flight sim and I know the tanks can take each other out, what impact does infantry have against each other and other ground assets/air assets? Also can they move tactically (i.e. find cover, etc) across the map?

 

Thats not a stupid question. Especially considering armor movements. Something that is already possible within DCS World.

 

Since the trees are collidable, how do the AI ground vehicles move over the map? Or are they limited to roads?

[Witchking]

Is it just me or does someone else also feel that the new music used in the assets pack preview videos seems too "modern" for DCS WWII and that it will probably be the new default music of DCS 2.5. All I'm saying is it sounds awesome. Very reminiscent of the Battlefield 3 music.

[firmek]

Thats not a stupid question. Especially considering armor movements. Something that is already possible within DCS World.

 

Since the trees are collidable, how do the AI ground vehicles move over the map? Or are they limited to roads?

The fact that trees are colidable for the planes doesn't have to mean that the collision is enabled for AI units or generally for all types of the units.

[cichlidfan]

The fact that trees are colidable for the planes doesn't have to mean that the collision is enabled for AI units or generally for all types of the units.

 

Which is totally bizarre. A tank should not be able to drive through a forest that a chopper can't fly through.

[NineLine]

Which is totally bizarre. A tank should not be able to drive through a forest that a chopper can't fly through.

 

As far as I understand it, tanks wont be able to drive through a forest.

[cichlidfan]

As far as I understand it, tanks wont be able to drive through a forest.

 

Good. Unless they are young trees, that is how it should be.

[kontiuka]

Good. Unless they are young trees, that is how it should be.

DCS: Young Tree;)

[firmek]

Which is totally bizarre. A tank should not be able to drive through a forest that a chopper can't fly through.

Which is totally normal if we don't assume that 3D program works by default the same as the real life.

As for how it should be programmed to mimic the real thing. The tanks should be able to knock down the trees - there is a "slight" difference between a Huey and 40 tons tank ;).