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Posted
Ehhh, I wouldn't say all it's teeth... still need missing radar modes.

That would be eyes, not teeth ;)

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Posted

Not for me, i also launch over 30 miles, 30 angels and mach 1.1.

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Posted
Yes, much too short. I get the SHOOT flashing at about 18 miles.

 

Thats not short at all for a no escape cue

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Posted
??? How you doing that? I still dont get it..maybe im doing something wrong. But there is nothing that you can mistake using AA missiles, ist very simple at this moment.

I`ve tried everything - low attitude, high attitude, all speeds...and I still cant get SHOOT inscription at range larger of 7-8nm. Its pretty short range in my opinion.

In every source that i`ve read for AIM-120C max range is 100-105 km (65miles)...So there is huge difference.

Why is that?

 

 

 

This is the MAXIMUM range and does not mean that you are going to hit a target at that distance.

The average Rtr is 13-11mn, but will depend heavily on a number of factors and the way the enemy aircraft behaves.

 

There are also other things that help get a hit over longer distances, but I believe the DCS F / A-18C still does not fully simulate the HUD symbology and especially the radar.

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Posted
Thats not short at all for a no escape cue

 

Depends on the closure velocity. If your target's aspect is head on, and you're tach-ing it towards him, you'll most likely get a flashing cue sooner than if he's running from you. Only you can't count on him continuing to fly right at you.

Posted
??? How you doing that? I still dont get it..maybe im doing something wrong. But there is nothing that you can mistake using AA missiles, ist very simple at this moment.

I`ve tried everything - low attitude, high attitude, all speeds...and I still cant get SHOOT inscription at range larger of 7-8nm. Its pretty short range in my opinion.

In every source that i`ve read for AIM-120C max range is 100-105 km (65miles)...So there is huge difference.

Why is that?

 

Depends on the altitude of the enemy, on his aspect and speed

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"Mai discutere con un idiota, ti trascina al suo livello e ti batte con l'esperienza" cit. Oscar Wilde

Posted

The ranges you find on wikipedia pages are not actual combat ranges, but rather how far the missile can go before it touches the ground if fired straight ahead from 30 000 feet. With the current AIM-120C, a shot from 25nm will only force a target to defend. Shots from 15nm and less might get you kill and that's already better than the current AIM-7 ;)

 

It's more important to see how missiles compare with each other. If the red guys had a good kill percentage from 50km away something would be way off but that's not the case. R-27ERs and AIM-120Cs get lethal at about the same range, 15nm or less. Sure maybe we'll get improvements to the guidance logic, flight model and so on, but don't ever expect to be able to pluck everything out of the sky from 65 miles away ;)

 

I've had a personal best at 26nm tonight, mostly because the target didn't try to defend after the missile went pitbull. Tacview right there : http://server.3rd-wing.net/public/vfa103/Tacview/grandslam1.acmi

92nd Kodiak Air Force - May the Greuh be with you
Posted (edited)
The ranges you find on wikipedia pages are not actual combat ranges, but rather how far the missile can go before it touches the ground if fired straight ahead from 30 000 feet.

 

Range on wiki for AAMs are never air to ground. They are air to air, you're just not told the parameters.

Edited by GGTharos

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Posted (edited)

That was a figure of speech ;) I kinda understand that in a real world test we wouldn't just toss a missile straight ahead and see how far it gets. My point is, those wild numbers they got from scenarios where the target seems cooperative enough to fly head on into the missile mean nothing useful, and get everyone confused about the performance most people seem to feel entitled to have in dcs. The only important part is how they compare. Sources that give a wild range of 65 miles for the amraam will give about 80 miles to the R-27ER. As long as they compare in the same way in DCS and one doesn't massively outperform the other, we can use real world tactics, see how well they work, and be happy about that :)

Edited by 92nd-MajorBug
92nd Kodiak Air Force - May the Greuh be with you
Posted

i did not read all the previous replys in the post, but i just want to say..

 

Did you guys notise that after the hotfix today 03 august that we now have Aim-120C missiles ( and not only B ) ;-)

Ps.. we can carry 12 aim-120c missiles.... now the f18c are an effective killing machine that you dont want to fight.

Posted
Yes but only after a certain point (where it goes 'pitbull' and then uses it's own radar) - within 10nm you should be okay to cancel the lock almost straight away, further out it involves some trial and error and guesstimation. We'll obviously have a pitbull counter at some point (probably by the end of August).

 

I don't suppose they call out "pitbull" or "maddog" in this sim. I haven't studied the HUD or DDI symbology for AIM120 but there should be some cues for the former right?

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Posted
I don't suppose they call out "pitbull" or "maddog" in this sim. I haven't studied the HUD or DDI symbology for AIM120 but there should be some cues for the former right?

 

I would've thought so - but they said they corrected the HUD symbology in the hotfix and I still can't see a pitbull counter. Not sure if we can expect one or not now...

Posted
I don't suppose they call out "pitbull" or "maddog" in this sim. I haven't studied the HUD or DDI symbology for AIM120 but there should be some cues for the former right?

 

IIRC, Maddog doesn't have any symbology. You're simply launching off a Hail Mary without handing off a target to the missile before launch. There should be countdown timers to Husky, then Pitbull, then impact.

 

My memory is fuzzy on A-A stuff, though. I'm more of a mud mover.

Posted
IIRC, Maddog doesn't have any symbology. You're simply launching off a Hail Mary without handing off a target to the missile before launch. There should be countdown timers to Husky, then Pitbull, then impact.

 

My memory is fuzzy on A-A stuff, though. I'm more of a mud mover.

Correct

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Posted

Its a TTA countdown for a target you have sent information to the missile (through TWS or STT lock).

 

Maddog as mentioned is a launch with no target locked. Low pki shot or opportunity shot in extreme situations.

 

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Posted

AFAIK, coming from F-16 sim environment, the only symbology for pitbull call is a counter on the hud to pitbull. Am not sure how the F-18 is implemented. Am assuming it would same or close generally

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Posted

I think the Aim120 management was a little more 'sophisticated' in the F-16. There was also a bore mode for the Aim120 if I recall right.

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Posted

Im quite sure the implementation for the aim120 is not ready yet, we will probably receive more funcionality as we move through this EA state.

 

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Posted

Just a note about maddog's, you can't launch an AIM-120 without a valid STT lock in the current early access, but it perfectly guides autonomously on a 2nm tail shot, if you cancel your lock immediately, so there is an active portion implemented (or the missile itself still has terminal active guidance in the current and previous code)

Judging the active portion or pitbull is a little harder. I might need a willing friend to help. I read 2 seconds per nm initial range previously, gonna check some tests.

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