Visibility

[philstyle]

I fly small planes in real life, and I'm happy with aircraft visibility in DCS as long as I fully zoom in. But then I can't fly...looking at the world through a toilet paper roll is highly unrealistic too. So the question is: how to make contacts just as visible when you're zoomed out as when you zoom in fully.

 

 

 

I agree 100%.

in DCS, at full zoom-in (i.e. minimum field of view) I can see aircraft 6 to 10 km away, dependong on how big they are and what the background it. However, as I zoom-out they disappear, and I can't see them even though they might be only 1km away.

 

 

My max FoV is 120 dgrees, my minimum 20.

In real life I have 114 degrees of binocular field of view plus an addional 40 or so more of monocular FoV. I don't need to reduce my FoV in real life down to 20 degrees in order to see an aircraft that is 1km away.

[Knock-Knock]

Sure we have a large field of view in real life, but outside about 60 degrees, we have a really hard time making out detail, let alone perceive 3d. There is no way we can detect fighters at say 8km out in the peripheral vision. Our focus cone is even as tiny as, think its 8 degrees.

 

Not saying DCS got it right with having to use low FOV to maintain visual of targets, just trying to say that we cant really compare with our mk 1 eyeballs, cause they are a very complex beast.

[VDV]

I cant update my OB with today's update. Update crash in the end...Is someone else has that issue?

[erniedaoage]

My max FoV is 120 dgrees, my minimum 20.

In real life I have 114 degrees of binocular field of view plus an addional 40 or so more of monocular FoV. I don't need to reduce my FoV in real life down to 20 degrees in order to see an aircraft that is 1km away.

 

You are right, but if you would end with a 1:1 ration you would end up with a fov of 20° to get the feeling you are sitting right in the airplane and every switch and everything else would have the right scale. Flying with fov 80-90° artificially decreases the scale of everything in the sim and thats a problem which exists for years not only in dcs.

 

here is a link for better understanding with a calculator for your configuration. Its made for racing sims but it also works with dcs.

http://www.projectimmersion.com/fov/

[NineLine]

I agree 100%.

in DCS, at full zoom-in (i.e. minimum field of view) I can see aircraft 6 to 10 km away, dependong on how big they are and what the background it. However, as I zoom-out they disappear, and I can't see them even though they might be only 1km away.

 

 

My max FoV is 120 dgrees, my minimum 20.

In real life I have 114 degrees of binocular field of view plus an addional 40 or so more of monocular FoV. I don't need to reduce my FoV in real life down to 20 degrees in order to see an aircraft that is 1km away.

 

What size monitor and resolution do you use Phil?

[SharpeXB]

You are right, but if you would end with a 1:1 ration you would end up with a fov of 20° to get the feeling you are sitting right in the airplane and every switch and everything else would have the right scale. Flying with fov 80-90° artificially decreases the scale of everything in the sim and thats a problem which exists for years not only in dcs.

That’s why there is a “zoom view” so you can vary this actively while you are playing. FOV is not meant to be set as a constant. All flight sims have this command for that reason.

[Loneagle]

A lot of users like me have the same issue even using the zoom. the Eagle Dyanmics team should bring it back de objects scale feature....

Edited September 26, 2018 by Loneagle

[USA_Recon]

Visibility is bad in DCS. And the ones that complain when it's better are the ones using crap resolutions , meanwhile you get penalized for having a good video and monitors

 

I'd actually prefer not being able to 'zoom' in or out and just make things easier to see by scaling them - always thought zooming was odd. Scaling makes more sense than zooming.

 

I don't want to see dots better, I'm talking actual objects - even the ground is bad - IRL you can see things clearly - in this game you have to zoom in flying over an airfield to identify something.

[SharpeXB]

Visibility in DCS right now is fairly good. If players can’t or won’t use the zoom view there’s not much that can be done to help that. Model enlargement was a dead end and I would rather ED works on more important things.

[Gladman]

Visibility in DCS right now is rather poor. If players can't or won't realize that the zoom view is completely unrealistic there's not much that can be done to help that. Model enlargement was the best thing to come to DCS and I would rather ED works on it than listen to those that don't get it.

[Loneagle]

Model enlargement was a dead end and I would rather ED works on more important things.

 

 

Dead end? I saw your moronic arguments against the model enlargement even when you could decide to use that feature or not. you're a minority in threads where the vast majority of users with valid arguments and tests have shown that the spotting range and visual engagements it's unrealistic and works poorly with good resolutions.

[SharpeXB]

I can see all the targets within the range you’d actually be able to see them IRL. You all can too if you figure it out. This is the most tiring subject in flight sims and there’s no solution for some people.

Model Enlargement is gone because players wanted it gone. It was ridiculous. Targets rendered the size of skyscrapers visible 70 miles away and people still complaining they can’t see anything. Please stop asking for it back.

Edited September 27, 2018 by SharpeXB

[Haukka81]

I can see all the targets within the range you’d actually be able to see them IRL. You all can too if you figure it out. This is the most tiring subject in flight sims and there’s no solution for some people.

Model Enlargement is gone because players wanted it gone. It was ridiculous. Targets rendered the size of skyscrapers visible 70 miles away and people still complaining they can’t see anything. Please stop asking for it back.

 

 

 

Please stop telling people what they can ask and want back.

 

Spotting is fine for YOU , but not for all of us.

 

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Reflected]

@SharpeXB: Zooming in and out is just not good enough, especially in a WWII dogfight. As soon as you zoom in you lose all SA. Not saying model enlargement was a good solution. I'm just saying that having to constantly switch between visibility and peripheral vision is an unfair and unrealistic disadvantage.

[SharpeXB]

@SharpeXB: Zooming in and out is just not good enough, especially in a WWII dogfight. As soon as you zoom in you lose all SA. Not saying model enlargement was a good solution. I'm just saying that having to constantly switch between visibility and peripheral vision is an unfair and unrealistic disadvantage.

Using the zoom is universally what players do to maintain SA. Just watch any gameplay video from any flight sim.

Like this one

 

This is what every other player in every flight sim does. So yes it’s possible and workable. It’s best to assign this to a HOTAS command that’s easiest to use constantly.

Every flight sim has a zoom view.

Not every flight sim has enlarged objects or whatever. You just need to learn the method that’s intended by the game and that’s used by everyone else.

The crux of this topic is always the use of this command. It’s not a bug or error or lacking feature in the sim if players aren’t using the view system correctly.

Edited September 27, 2018 by SharpeXB

[Mr_sukebe]

Just because players do it, doesn’t mean it’s appropriate.

Whilst I’ve read of A10 pilots using binos in the Gulf war, that’s because they weren’t in combat. An F15 pilot in a CAP engagement is not going to using Binos during a merge on a 7g turn, it’s just BS.

[BuzzU]

A real F-15 pilot will have perfect vision too. Not the case with old farts like me and others.

[Skarp]

Right now I could be on someone’s 6 looking at them not deviating my eyes and still they disappear right in front of me soon as they push terrain into my field of view. An A10 for example is harder to spot than an f15 in game.

[ZnarF]

@SharpeXB: Sorry, while your argument should sound good for Ace Combat or such things, the cyborg-29X-binocs in a software like DCS World -which aims at the most realistic approach-, that's profundly wrong. I feel such superzoom you use in your video should be removed (accept for Easy Mode), and the spotting/dotting should be reworked.

[Mr_sukebe]

@SharpeXB: Sorry, while your argument should sound good for Ace Combat or such things, the cyborg-29X-binocs in a software like DCS World -which aims at the most realistic approach-, that's profundly wrong. I feel such superzoom you use in your video should be removed (accept for Easy Mode), and the spotting/dotting should be reworked.

 

+ lots!

[SharpeXB]

@SharpeXB: Sorry, while your argument should sound good for Ace Combat or such things, the cyborg-29X-binocs in a software like DCS World -which aims at the most realistic approach-, that's profundly wrong. I feel such superzoom you use in your video should be removed (accept for Easy Mode), and the spotting/dotting should be reworked.

Actually not my video. But if you look at nearly every flight sim gameplay video you’ll see the same thing.

Every flight sim and other sim games like ARMA have a zoom view in order to simulate 20/20 real world vision for the player. If you can’t grasp the idea then perhaps sims aren’t the game for you. You’ve got it backwards. Sims need zoom view. Arcade games where the distances are unrealistically close or use icons don’t.

 

In any sport or video game or whatever. You’re just banging your head against a wall expecting the game to change to match you. It’s you that needs to adapt yourself to the game or don’t play. It’s as simple as that. The fact that this model enlargement feature has already been tried and abandoned does not make it likely to return. You’re better off learning to adapt to the game then expecting it to change.

[BuzzU]

That's true. There probably isn't two guys flying DCS that have the same system, monitor, controller, vision, and IQ.

 

We all need to adapt to what works the best for us. It means nothing what others do.

[Schmidtfire]

I go to an airshow with my 6 year old, and can lose sight of an aircraft with a subtle distraction, I can see airliners flying over head, although I am closer to a major airport so they arent at max altitude when they fly over either. Ones that are, you have signs like contrails or sometimes even flickering of reflections.

 

SO there is a lot too it.

 

Now what we are talking about here is VR, high res, small screen size. Or 4K on a 43 inch monitor vs 4K on a 27 inch monitor.

 

ANd something else, DCS's age, and older content. Older models generally dont have proper or updated LODS, and for instance, in VR disappear when they shouldn't.

 

SO what is the answer? Its tough. Maybe we should have a scaling system based on resolution vs monitor size, but how to enforce it, and not have someone use the scaling as a cheat?

 

Labels? Maybe a more robust and tunable label system, we have been talking about that in another thread. But again, labels to help one user, could be abused by another.

 

Its a slippery slope for sure.

 

Scaling resolution vs monitor size is a good a start! I actually tried playing DCS on an old 19" 4:3 screen and the spotting was a huge improvement compared to my regular ultra-wide 34".

 

Scaling is one thing, but there are other factors like contrast, colorblending etc. that affects

the spotting ability. Multiple threads has been spawned on this subject over the years. Im sure there are a number of ways to improve spotting without going over the top with scaling.

 

For me, spotting is worst in close range. < 12km.

 

There is not a simple answer on how to solve it, but worrying about cheaters in a hardcore simulator should not stop ED from trying to fix an issue that has lasted for over a decade. Being able to spot objects is absolutely crucial in a flight simulator.

 

While I love the new rain on canopy effects, over-wing vapour and stuff, spotting needs some love and attention :)

[dimitrischal]

I don’t know if it matters but spotting in real life in dcs altitudes and speeds is PITA too.

Exhaust gases play a critical role as they tend to have a different hue then the surrounding sky and fan out quite a lot but making out shapes is pretty hard even in close ranges.

[NineLine]

Dead end? I saw your moronic arguments against the model enlargement even when you could decide to use that feature or not. you're a minority in threads where the vast majority of users with valid arguments and tests have shown that the spotting range and visual engagements it's unrealistic and works poorly with good resolutions.

 

Guys, guys.... please guys... I know how important this issue is, its important to me and all of the team, but please dont call each other names, or insult each others opinions.

 

If you think someones opinion is wrong, then you are wrong. Everyones opinion is right for them, what ED needs to do, and the challenge of the whole issue is that we need to cover ALL those opinions the best we can.

 

What happens if you call someone moronic, or their opinion moronic is that eventually your own opinion will get snuffed out via suspension or ban, please dont make me do that, I want everyones opinion. This is an important issue so lets work together to get it solved.