New Fulcrum PFM is very susceptible to PIO and excessive bounce.

[DmitriKozlowsky]

New Fulcrum A PFM is very susceptible to PIO and excessive bounce on landing.

[AeriaGloria]

Be aware of slat behavior, deploy at,roughly 10 degrees AoA but stay on until 7 degrees. Keep approach speed over the fence 300kpm and no less than 250kmh at touchdown

[DmitriKozlowsky]

Slats are automatically controlled. There is no pilot directed slat deployment. Perhaps you meant flaps. I deploy FlapsDown at 400 and FlapsLanding at 330, and TD with 270 IAS. But now Mig-29 bounces a lot, PITCH is extremely sensitive and prone to PIO. I adjusted my Pitch axis curve to 45 from 25, and it is still very sensitive.

Edited October 24, 2018 by DmitriKozlowsky

[Vatikus]

use trim on landing... i use thumb rule of having trim nose up in approach so that distance number on hud equals my touch down. Then do not exceed AOA 11 at touch down and watch your variometer not exceeding 5m/s.

[AeriaGloria]

No I meant slats, they automatically deploy at a larger AOA than they automatically retract, i think it’s about 10 and 7 degrees respectively. However with landing gear deployed I believe slats are always down.

 

As Vatikus said less than 5 m/s and less than 11 AOA on touchdown, there’s a thread around here that has a video of a real mig-29 pilot landing the DCS PFM as part of ED’s testing, you’lol find it in one of the big threads of this sub forum lately

 

Edit: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=222228&page=3

Edited October 24, 2018 by AeriaGloria

[GGTharos]

Looks like some of this behavior may be corrected with today's patch.

[mvsgas]

The Mig-29 has some things in common to the Mig-21 in terms of the Flight control design. One of the thing to watch out for is the Feel Unit. If this light is on, and since we can't have the real live feed back pilots have, the controls will be more sensitive.

 

[ATTACH]196555[/ATTACH]

 

From the DCS Mig-21 manual

[ATTACH]196556[/ATTACH]

Edited October 24, 2018 by mvsgas

[Ironhand]

Be aware of slat behavior, deploy at,roughly 10 degrees AoA but stay on until 7 degrees. Keep approach speed over the fence 300kpm and no less than 250kmh at touchdown

 

I believe they deploy at 7-8 and retract at 5 degrees.

[DmitriKozlowsky]

I dunno. I think the pitch dampener sim code is a bit wonky.

[draconus]

I believe they deploy at 7-8 and retract at 5 degrees.

See attachment.

[Ironhand]

See attachment.

Yes. I'm talking about the sim. But, then again, I'm only going by when the cockpit indicator light turns on and off. Haven't checked the external view to see if it coincides.

[DmitriKozlowsky]

Thats all good and fine, regarding slats programme. Still does not help me to not bounce like Flubber when my main touches runway.

AOA 10-11

IAS 290kph at threshhold 270kph at T/D

Stores: empty or 2X R-73 on outer pylons

Fuel: 500-1000 kg TTL

[Ironhand]

Thats all good and fine, regarding slats programme. Still does not help me to not bounce like Flubber when my main touches runway.

AOA 10-11

IAS 290kph at threshhold 270kph at T/D

Stores: empty or 2X R-73 on outer pylons

Fuel: 500-1000 kg TTL

And what's you're sink rate at the point of contact? It's too high, whatever it is. But, you're right, she will bounce. It's a little known fact that the Russians incorporated rubber technology into the aircraft to lower the RCS.

 

Anyway, here's a track that may or may not help. It's not the smoothest of landings. Made with the latest update. Ignore the first minute or so where I was trying to figure out what my dog wanted.

 

EDIT: Here's a short video from the track (in case it doesn't play back correctly) focusing on the HUD, VVI, and AoA Indicator:

 

MiG-29S Landing1.trk

Edited October 25, 2018 by Ironhand

[Mars Exulte]

If you're bouncing it means you're hitting too hard, full stop. The FM may influence it, but the #1 determinate is your vertical speed. 5ms is MAXIMUM. You should TRY to touchdown 1-2ms, or in general as gently as possible. Guaranteed you will not 'bounce' if you touchdown gently. It does seem to wobble a bit in the above video, but the gentler you touch, the better it will be. Also watch your weight. Most aircraft land with minimal fuel and stores.

Edited October 25, 2018 by zhukov032186

[Pasquale1986]

exactly if she bounces, you're not gentle enough, which means sink rate is to high in the moment of touchdown. Even ironhands landing as he said himself is still on the rougher side

 

 

If you watch sour sink rate and your aoa there are no issues - at least in my case

[Ironhand]

Yes. I'm talking about the sim. But, then again, I'm only going by when the cockpit indicator light turns on and off. Haven't checked the external view to see if it coincides.

And, so, they don't coincide. While the cockpit indicator illuminates as soon as the slats begin to extend (at around 9°), it doesn't extinguish until they completely retract. They begin to retract at 7° as the manual indicates.

[rrohde]

+1 on the sink rate (1-2m/sec); the final flare should take you there (no rhyme originally intended).

[grafspee]

bounce on landing ??

 

Never have problem with it i realy dont know what ppl are talking about

[Magic Zach]

The MiG-29 is fairly easy and simple to land...

[DmitriKozlowsky]

I don't think the problem is my technique. I land F-5E, Mig-21, and AV-8B, without a problem. There are two issues with Mig-29 PFM (both A & S). First is pitch control. I use X56, and my pitch curve for -29PFM is 40. Normally it is 25. So a pixel's worth of pitch deflection, as seen in on screen stick control, causes inordinate amount of pitch. Second is exaggerated bounce. There are two types of bad bounce. First is main gear bounce, due to excessive VV. Second, more insidious one, and one that does not make sense, is front gear bounce and rebounce, with each one picking up more energy, untill A/C is back in the air, despite throttle down to idle, and drogue chute out. Like Flubber from Disney.

[Lixma 06]

The pitch thing is related to the leading edge flaps....the moment they deploy the nose pitches up suddenly.

 

Whether that signifies cause and effect I don't know - but watching real-life in-cockpit Mig-29 footage (the rear facing videos where you can see the LEFs deploy during maneuvering) I haven't yet seen anything like the behaviour of our 29.

 

The flight model is still being worked on so maybe this is all v0.99 gremlins.

[Magic Zach]

I don't think the problem is my technique. I land F-5E, Mig-21, and AV-8B, without a problem. There are two issues with Mig-29 PFM (both A & S). First is pitch control. I use X56, and my pitch curve for -29PFM is 40. Normally it is 25. So a pixel's worth of pitch deflection, as seen in on screen stick control, causes inordinate amount of pitch. Second is exaggerated bounce. There are two types of bad bounce. First is main gear bounce, due to excessive VV. Second, more insidious one, and one that does not make sense, is front gear bounce and rebounce, with each one picking up more energy, untill A/C is back in the air, despite throttle down to idle, and drogue chute out. Like Flubber from Disney.

The main on the current MiG bounce if you land too fast, but I have never had the nose wheel bounce. I don't believe that is n issue with the MiG-29.

[draconus]

I don't think the problem is my technique. I land F-5E, Mig-21, and AV-8B, without a problem. There are two issues with Mig-29 PFM (both A & S). First is pitch control. I use X56, and my pitch curve for -29PFM is 40. Normally it is 25. So a pixel's worth of pitch deflection, as seen in on screen stick control, causes inordinate amount of pitch. Second is exaggerated bounce. There are two types of bad bounce. First is main gear bounce, due to excessive VV. Second, more insidious one, and one that does not make sense, is front gear bounce and rebounce, with each one picking up more energy, untill A/C is back in the air, despite throttle down to idle, and drogue chute out. Like Flubber from Disney.

You're spinning the wheels here. Post a track or it didn't happen.

As for the pitch - yes, it's sensitive. Be gentle. I didn't hear any SME complaining.

And remember there's a big difference between the landing where you just don't break anything and the perfect landing.

[Xtan]

Second, more insidious one, and one that does not make sense, is front gear bounce and rebounce, with each one picking up more energy, untill A/C is back in the air, despite throttle down to idle, and drogue chute out. Like Flubber from Disney.

 

Yes, I've had a front wheel bounce. My solution is not to loose the stick after the main landing gear hits the ground. Even it's ok to keep the stick all the time. That's why I found 65 knots to lift the front wheel. :P https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=223311

[draconus]

Yes, I've had a front wheel bounce. My solution is not to loose the stick after the main landing gear hits the ground. Even it's ok to keep the stick all the time.

It's not OK. It's mandatory. From manual > normal procedures > normal landing: "At touchdown, reduce power to idle, maintaining stick position and deploy chute." and also "NOTE: At excessive touchdown speeds, the aircraft has a tendency to bounce."

You can't just leave the stick or let the nose slam into the ground.