AdrianL Posted April 28 Share Posted April 28 (edited) This have been debated many times, and the answer was always no. No-one here knows what the DCS total sales numbers, retention figures, session play time, etc are so it is useless debating. Best people to decide is ED. All I know is that it will cause an absolute <profanity>-storm if they decide to go the subscription route. Edited April 28 by AdrianL 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAXsenna Posted April 28 Share Posted April 28 Bla bla bla. You're not on target. Sigh... Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiG21bisFishbedL Posted April 28 Share Posted April 28 5 hours ago, JonathanRL said: As a member of the community; I am strictly against any sort of subscription model that limits what I already have purchased. The very idea that I, who own almost every jet module would lose it all if I did not pay a subscription fee is ludicrous. I can see a subscription being used in the same way as it is used in the gaming community today being applied to DCS but the option to pay a fixed sum should always be there and its addition cannot limit things already purchased. (i.e you can purchase FC2024 for a fixed sum or pay 5 bucks per months to EA Play; both options give you access to the game) That would be the most obscene outcome and would effectively force many to toss DCS into the bin. I'm pretty sure ED doesn't want that and they know. Given where DCS has gone in terms of monetization, a subscription model would either be a hard sell or just absolutely pointless. They can't limit access to what we've purchased, I'm sure a number of regulators across the world might take umbrage with that. My questions would be: 1. Are future releases going to be subscription only? If so, how does that add value to those of us, like you and I, who already own a substantial amount of content? To me, that just says "Well, sorry losers, the modules offered up on active subscriptions are now our priority since we're getting a drip feed of the purchase price??" Given the experience I've had, and many many others, with trying to convince ED that the Saber's ballistics are wrong, I would expect that frustration with everything else we have. So, I don't like that. 2. How profitable would a subscription be? Let's compare the existing FC3 price of $50 and your example of $5 a month ala EA play. That's $60 a year, so greater profit? Potentially higher margins for ED, right? But, you'll know right quick if you like FC3. So, what if I were drop a few months subscription to try it and I like it. But, DCS players are always eager to tell newbies to wait for sales. So, I've put 3 months into it, enjoy it, that's $15. It goes on sale for half off? I've spent $40, which represents a loss of $20. On the surface, it's actually not a horrible idea. It could be used as a loss leader, a product sold at an unprofitable rate to grow customer loyalty and get them spending more. However, that could turn into an issue since ED might have to compensate by reducing discounts on other products or even discontinuing them. I think this is an untenable position given how many purchases happen during sales. 3. What happens to third parties? Can they opt out of the subscription model? There's probably more that can be thought of and we can't get any solid proof since a business has the right to keep its figures confidential, but every smoke cloud we see from ED indicates that a more mainstream free to play model or an iRacing-esque subscription is just out of the question. I suppose if money is coming in, you just let it do so and don't try to squeeze blood from a stone. After all, not everything can be answered by throwing more money at it. 2 Reformers hate him! This one weird trick found by a bush pilot will make gunfighter obsessed old farts angry at your multi-role carrier deck line up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimSell75 Posted April 28 Share Posted April 28 vor 13 Minuten schrieb Vector1: TimSell75,Go Away Too. So everybody who disagrees with you should shut up and go away? Dream on! 3 i5-13600K, 64GB DDR4 3200, RTX4090 24GB, M2 PCIe 1TB Pimax Crystal Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS, Thrustmaster TPR Rudders Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimSell75 Posted April 28 Share Posted April 28 vor 54 Minuten schrieb Vector1: TimSell75, That's is the only thing that you have got right in a while ,go away or maybe I should translate it to Deutsch! No need to, I speak multiple languages pretty fine. Nobody will go away just because you say so. Maybe apply for an admin job and try again. 2 i5-13600K, 64GB DDR4 3200, RTX4090 24GB, M2 PCIe 1TB Pimax Crystal Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS, Thrustmaster TPR Rudders Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speed-of-heat Posted April 28 Share Posted April 28 This old chestnut again ... FFS 6 SYSTEM SPECS: Hardware Intel Corei7-12700KF @ 5.1/5.3p & 3.8e GHz, 64Gb RAM, 4090 FE, Dell S2716DG, Virpil T50CM3 Throttle, WinWIng Orion 2 & F-16EX + MFG Crosswinds V2, Varjo Aero SOFTWARE: Microsoft Windows 11, VoiceAttack & VAICOM PRO YOUTUBE CHANNEL: @speed-of-heat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiG21bisFishbedL Posted April 28 Share Posted April 28 10 minutes ago, speed-of-heat said: This old chestnut again ... FFS Every gamer holds a degree in game design, economics, and business, don'cha know? Clearly, a company that's been in business since the 1990s is doing something wrong in this regard and should listen. I eagerly await DCS lootbox drops, premium currency that'll cut the weeks it takes to get out of a P-51 and into an F-86 into a matter of days, and the Everquest tie-in. 4 Reformers hate him! This one weird trick found by a bush pilot will make gunfighter obsessed old farts angry at your multi-role carrier deck line up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art-J Posted April 28 Share Posted April 28 7 hours ago, TimSell75 said: The fact that somebody may have a different opinion than you, does not justify insults! Bad manners! You're right about bad manners and too blunt response, but let's be honest - OPs theory is full of so many holes that he somewhat deserves the flak he receives. If some aspects of his opinin are just flawed, nobody's going to pat him on his back and give him "participation award" but shoot with reality check instead. Moreover the subscription concept was already discussed ad nauseam in so many threads (which even included ED responses as well).... If OP decided it would be faster to redact and type his wall of text instead of just using search function then I can see how some might perceived him as not exactly the sharpest knive in the drawer. 7 2 i7 9700K @ stock speed, single GTX1070, 32 gigs of RAM, TH Warthog, MFG Crosswind, Win10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimSell75 Posted April 28 Share Posted April 28 (edited) vor einer Stunde schrieb Art-J: You're right about bad manners and too blunt response, but let's be honest - OPs theory is full of so many holes that he somewhat deserves the flak he receives. If some aspects of his opinin are just flawed, nobody's going to pat him on his back and give him "participation award" but shoot with reality check instead. Moreover the subscription concept was already discussed ad nauseam in so many threads (which even included ED responses as well).... If OP decided it would be faster to redact and type his wall of text instead of just using search function then I can see how some might perceived him as not exactly the sharpest knive in the drawer. I never said I agree with the OP. But calling somebody idiot and telling him to go away, just because you don’t like his opinion, does not belong here. What he is right about, is that the current system is kind of flawed. It lives from people buying new modules every few months. To be honest, I can be proficient in 1-2 modules at a time, after a pause of a year or so I need to relearn them. So EDs System can simply not survive by people who just want to focus on 1-2 modules and be really good at them, they don’t finance the development of the base system. So either they get people putting 10+ modules in their virtual hangar or attract more and more new people joining the party by releasing new modules that share some of the revenue for the development of the base system. Edited April 28 by TimSell75 2 i5-13600K, 64GB DDR4 3200, RTX4090 24GB, M2 PCIe 1TB Pimax Crystal Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS, Thrustmaster TPR Rudders Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMH Posted April 28 Share Posted April 28 It's like his 6th post. Not the best way to introduce yourself to the community. "Hey guize! I got an idea! Why don't we pay to fly?" 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diego999 Posted April 28 Share Posted April 28 2 hours ago, SMH said: It's like his 6th post. Not the best way to introduce yourself to the community. "Hey guize! I got an idea! Why don't we pay to fly?" Two new accounts appeared on the same day writing a wall of text about ED going into subscription model. Something smells fishy. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qcumber Posted April 28 Share Posted April 28 47 minutes ago, diego999 said: Two new accounts appeared on the same day writing a wall of text about ED going into subscription model. Something smells fishy. Yes. I reported it as AI spam yesterday. 4 5800x3d: rtx4070: 64Gb 3200: 1Tb NVME: Pico 4: Rift S: Quest Pro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vee.A Posted April 28 Share Posted April 28 Here's Nick Grey's (the CEO of ED) answer to this question. I, for one, am thankful for it. https://youtu.be/Fvkugzpzr-Q?si=0xzaCJ32c2Px7D-T&t=1570 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SharpeXB Posted April 28 Share Posted April 28 2 hours ago, Vee.A said: Here's Nick Grey's (the CEO of ED) answer to this question. I, for one, am thankful for it. https://youtu.be/Fvkugzpzr-Q?si=0xzaCJ32c2Px7D-T&t=1570 Good post. Yeah I don’t know why some people keep thinking a subscription model is appropriate for DCS. 3 i9-14900KS | ASUS ROG MAXIMUS Z790 HERO | 64GB DDR5 5600MHz | iCUE H150i Liquid CPU Cooler | ASUS TUF GeForce RTX 4090 OC | Windows 11 Home | 2TB Samsung 980 PRO NVMe | Corsair RM1000x | LG 48GQ900-B 4K OLED Monitor | CH Fighterstick | Ch Pro Throttle | CH Pro Pedals | TrackIR 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mammal Posted April 29 Share Posted April 29 an inappropriate solution to a problem that exists in the OP mind.... 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mammal Posted April 29 Share Posted April 29 Cute, call me a nitwit and call for ban for leaving an opinion the OP literally asked for. All this end of the world talk over a contract dispute. smh 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirrah Posted April 29 Share Posted April 29 Perhaps I'm unaware of some kind of history about the OP, or maybe I'm just naïve, but I'm a bit surprised on the amount or toxicity in this thread (especially as I've never seen this kind of behaviour from some of the people that responded to this thread). Admittedly, the whole "I got fat" part was weird and unnecessary, but it seems the guy is pretty green/new here, yet presumably posted his/her idea with good intentions (even though, like everyone here, I don't agree at all with this idea). I expect he has never seen any of the other discussions about this topic, or else I assume he wouldn't have gone through the trouble of posting this essay. So, even though pretty much nobody wants a monthly subscription model for DCS, why is there so much hostility in all these reactions? Have I missed some sort of trolling history with this guy or something? 4 System specs: i7-8700K @stock speed - GTX 1080TI @ stock speed - AsRock Extreme4 Z370 - 32GB DDR4 @3GHz- 500GB SSD - 2TB nvme - 650W PSU HP Reverb G1 v2 - Saitek Pro pedals - TM Warthog HOTAS - TM F/A-18 Grip - TM Cougar HOTAS (NN-Dan mod) & (throttle standalone mod) - VIRPIL VPC Rotor TCS Plus with ALPHA-L grip - Pointctrl & aux banks <-- must have for VR users!! - Andre's SimShaker Jetpad - Fully adjustable DIY playseat - VA+VAICOM ~ That nuke might not have been the best of ideas, Sir... the enemy is furious ~ GUMMBAH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiob Posted April 29 Share Posted April 29 Not gonna justifiy the tone of the conversation, but I can see why people are so frustrated with the proposal. First, obviously an overwhelming majority thinks it is a very bad idea. Second, this idea isn't new by any stretch of the imagination and has been brought up countless times. (...and has been shot down each and every time, including by ED). 5 "Muß ich denn jedes Mal, wenn ich sauge oder saugblase den Schlauchstecker in die Schlauchnut schieben?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirrah Posted April 29 Share Posted April 29 9 minutes ago, Hiob said: Not gonna justifiy the tone of the conversation, but I can see why people are so frustrated with the proposal. First, obviously an overwhelming majority thinks it is a very bad idea. Second, this idea isn't new by any stretch of the imagination and has been brought up countless times. (...and has been shot down each and every time, including by ED). Yes I know Hiob (and let me emphasize that I'm in the "no thank you" camp), but it was/is just the tone of some of the reactions that surprised me. (I'll just leave it at me probably being naïve, when it comes to my expectations on the level of maturity on this forum) 2 System specs: i7-8700K @stock speed - GTX 1080TI @ stock speed - AsRock Extreme4 Z370 - 32GB DDR4 @3GHz- 500GB SSD - 2TB nvme - 650W PSU HP Reverb G1 v2 - Saitek Pro pedals - TM Warthog HOTAS - TM F/A-18 Grip - TM Cougar HOTAS (NN-Dan mod) & (throttle standalone mod) - VIRPIL VPC Rotor TCS Plus with ALPHA-L grip - Pointctrl & aux banks <-- must have for VR users!! - Andre's SimShaker Jetpad - Fully adjustable DIY playseat - VA+VAICOM ~ That nuke might not have been the best of ideas, Sir... the enemy is furious ~ GUMMBAH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimSell75 Posted April 29 Share Posted April 29 (edited) vor 10 Stunden schrieb Vector1: TimSell75 ,you would be my first ban , sorry ,the second , the nitwit that wrote this diatribe , would be first ! Well, glad for me that you will not be an Admin anywhere then. P.S. wanting to ban somebody for simply posting his views in factual words and answering with an insult yourself is pretty much absurd. Edited April 29 by TimSell75 2 i5-13600K, 64GB DDR4 3200, RTX4090 24GB, M2 PCIe 1TB Pimax Crystal Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS, Thrustmaster TPR Rudders Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiG21bisFishbedL Posted April 29 Share Posted April 29 11 hours ago, SharpeXB said: Good post. Yeah I don’t know why some people keep thinking a subscription model is appropriate for DCS. There's two extremes in the customer base. There's one portion that thinks ED and co. will break into their homes and hold them at gunpoint before politely asking them to buy things. The other, albeit much smaller, portion thinks DCS isn't monetized anywhere near enough and wants to dump loads and loads into micro transactions, because eliminating the open ended nature from DCS is a good idea. 3 Reformers hate him! This one weird trick found by a bush pilot will make gunfighter obsessed old farts angry at your multi-role carrier deck line up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacemishka Posted April 29 Share Posted April 29 hahaha... then i could buy now all...and when then Ed change to subsciption model, what i sipposed to pay? I paid all already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slughead Posted April 29 Share Posted April 29 The irony of all this is that at anytime, should ED close up shop for whatever reason, none of our installs will work anymore without the license verification server. I’d be more concerned about that. 10 Slugmouse, a finger-mounted mouse button emulator for hand-tracked VR cockpit clicking. Available now! Demonstration video: https://youtu.be/imQQrUnomak?si=DfwfVNF1xY0-AeXu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caveman655 Posted April 29 Share Posted April 29 I am completely against having a subscription in DCS, but at the same time the constant early access model that ED uses is not a good one. The temptation will always be there for the next project to bring in that EA money without finishing the current project(looking at the super carrier). I personally don't see a easy answer to this and people smarter then me seem to be having the same issue. The only thing I can think of and even this would have flaws, is a 2nd income stream for ED, something like having a 2nd team create LOMAC 2 and put that game on a subscription model. We can all see how well War Thunder has done maybe ED can try to cut into that market share for the people looking for a simpler experience then what DCS provides? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMH Posted April 29 Share Posted April 29 1 hour ago, slughead said: The irony of all this is that at anytime, should ED close up shop for whatever reason, none of our installs will work anymore without the license verification server. I’d be more concerned about that. You can put it into Offline mode but... yeah. (Not a big deal for me as I mostly fly multiplayer and obviously that can't work without their central servers either. Offline I mostly use for learning new aircraft and if there's no new aircraft then... meh!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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