Seeking clarification about end of Windows 7 support.

[Knock-Knock]

Just wondering how much wiggle room I will have. When is 2.7 due, is it the planned update on Jan 27? Is it in February, March, when?

And will DCS just bang stop working with 2.7, or is it more a question of, might not, and with further updates chances are more and more will be broken etc?

[Dallenbach]

I think this is clear enough:

"We will no longer be supporting Windows 7. Users who do not want not to change their operating system can still enjoy DCS World 2.5.6. However, new updates will not be available. In order to attend to your needs more diligently, please download the latest version. "

[Worrazen]

I think he wants to know if Win 7 will enter "soft support" period. The term would in this case more accurately be "might run but all further maintenance and testing has stopped and it may cease to run at any time".

 

In software there is sometimes a distinction between soft/hard or in other words strict enforcement or not, which means, whether the author enforces a system/software/hardware before trying to execute more code, whether the author tolerates inoptimal and unsupported hardware/software or not, whether the author lets the program try to run on something it's no longer optimal to do so and doesn't make it harder for the program, soft support as in, "just leave it so it hopefully runs and don't intentionally hamper it" kinda. You might see this more in open source project  tho.

 

Soft support is usually seen in cases where you previously supported something and then dropped the testing, validation and maintenance part, in that case the platform/component/device that is labeled unsupported might still run relatively fine for a period of time, however progressively worse, erratic and buggier with each new update until major of it's components are half-broken and it becomes impractical, but before that happens something critical could go bad even trying to load things fully so it ceases to run all-together even with all the discovered power-user tricks.

 

So in the best case scenario, some hardcore Win7 users could hope it's not a hard drop, a hard enforcement that detects Win7 and won't even attempt executing, and tweak themselfs through making it run if there's any further issues, however that is if, .. this soft period might have already gone through internally, even if the public DCS 2.7 wouldn't have the hard enforcement, the chances are that most likely the components and code necessary to run on Win7 migth have been modified or removed too greately to be able to start and run in any practical way once it hits the public anyway, so truly making it unsupported on Win7.

 

Speaking of Win7 refusing to die, indeed I still have the plan to install Win7 on a spare drive for old games and stuff, but not for DCS.

Edited January 16, 2021 by Worrazen

[Knock-Knock]

12 minutes ago, Worrazen said:

I think he wants to know if Win 7 will enter "soft support" period. The term would in this case more accurately be "might run but all further maintenance and testing has stopped and it may cease to run at any time".

 

Correct, and the time frame more importantly. Things are not always easy here in these lock down times, so simply wondering about a time frame.

[Worrazen]

These side terms are only ofcourse broad and shouldn't be taken literally, the official terms should be taken as such even if they clash with the understanding/meaning, so if it's unsupported and there's no other explanation, it's unsupported in the hard way and you're on your own.

 

For the sake of debating, if we overthink this it really depends what the programming is like, for a real soft support, because the term support means some work, that "some work" would most effectivelly be in such fashion: minimal effort on just making things run, with various components and options disabled that weren't designed with the platform/hardware support in mind.

 

So yeah if there's enough of you guys that would really benefit from a 3-6 months of such a period, or at least the first 2.7 release, they could perhaps do that if it's feasible and practical under a list of conditions: work required is sufficiently small, no new features would be ported or made sure to run, whether it's still practical and fair in the end, disabling some effecty might give you advantage in multiplayer that equates to cheating for example, and imagine if they would need to disable water altogether, you would have no oceans in that kind of a build, you'd be searching for lost treasure in a mission of Drain The Oceans

 

 

For balance, I should rather post some tips to help out Win7 users transitioning to Win10.

Edited January 16, 2021 by Worrazen

[Ironhand]

6 hours ago, Knock-Knock said:

 

6 hours ago, Knock-Knock said:

Just wondering how much wiggle room I will have. When is 2.7 due, is it the planned update on Jan 27? Is it in February, March, when?

And will DCS just bang stop working with 2.7, or is it more a question of, might not, and with further updates chances are more and more will be broken etc?

Don’t know when 2.7 is coming but, when it does arrive, it won’t be available for Win7 users to download. At least that’s what their announcement states.

Edited January 16, 2021 by Ironhand

[Mars Exulte]

''Users who do not want not to change their operating system can still enjoy DCS World 2.5.6. However, new updates will not be available''

 

 What's confusing about ''new updates will not be available''?

[FoxTwo]

Stop using an out of date END OF SUPPORT operating system that's no longer receiving security updates when you can STILL upgrade to Windows 10 for free.

 

Problem solved.

Edited January 16, 2021 by FoxTwo

[Worrazen]

15 minutes ago, FoxTwo said:

Stop using an out of date END OF SUPPORT operating system that's no longer receiving security updates when you can STILL upgrade to Windows 10 for free.

 

Problem solved.

 

 

But ... it's not truly free, you pay with sharing info/metadata.

 

Edited January 16, 2021 by Worrazen

[Dallenbach]

That's true, but there are also tools where you can determine which telemetry data you want to pass on at all. For example, I use O&O Shutup 10, it's a free tool.

[FoxTwo]

3 hours ago, Worrazen said:

 

But ... it's not truly free, you pay with sharing info/metadata.

 

 

 

Windows 7 send telemetry data to microsoft as well. For years now.

 

Live with it.

[bmbpdk]

14 hours ago, Dallenbach said:

That's true, but there are also tools where you can determine which telemetry data you want to pass on at all. For example, I use O&O Shutup 10, it's a free tool.

When a Gold Microsoft Partner claims they are blocking Microsoft spying, i have my doubt about them.

[BIGNEWY]

On 1/16/2021 at 8:07 AM, Knock-Knock said:

Just wondering how much wiggle room I will have. When is 2.7 due, is it the planned update on Jan 27? Is it in February, March, when?

And will DCS just bang stop working with 2.7, or is it more a question of, might not, and with further updates chances are more and more will be broken etc?

 

Next and last update for supporting windows 7 is planned for the 27th of January. I dont have a date for patches following that update yet. 

 

You may find windows 7 works after this, but we are expecting issue for windows 7 users with patches when we get to 2.7, hence the warning now for switching to windows 10. 

 

Please dont derail this thread with pros and cons of windows 10 over 7. Windows 7 is end of life, microsoft have stopped supporting it with there own software, and the time has come for DCS to stop supporting it also as it is holding back new code and features.  

 

thanks

[Andy1966]

On 1/16/2021 at 1:17 PM, FoxTwo said:

Stop using an out of date END OF SUPPORT operating system that's no longer receiving security updates when you can STILL upgrade to Windows 10 for free.

 

Problem solved.

 

I just updated my computer yesterday to windows 10 from 7 for free, so it works still. the first screen afterwards was setting of telemetry, I turned most of them off. it was surprisingly easy

Edited January 17, 2021 by Andy1966

[SharkWizard]

I hope I'm not too off topic. If you are very serious about protecting your private data you could always run both win7 and 10 as Virtual machines from within a linux OS and use hardware passthroughs to run DCS or other games at very close to or at full performance.

[jasonbirder]

Sorry to derail thread slightly...I'm a legacy Windows 7 user (because of some old software i'm running) but have been meaning to update to Windows 10, the ending of support for Win 7 in DCS is enough of a push for me to do so...

Is there really a "Free" upgrade path for Windows 7 users...I thought that offer ended ages ago?

Cheers

 

[Furiz]

20 minutes ago, jasonbirder said:

Sorry to derail thread slightly...I'm a legacy Windows 7 user (because of some old software i'm running) but have been meaning to update to Windows 10, the ending of support for Win 7 in DCS is enough of a push for me to do so...

Is there really a "Free" upgrade path for Windows 7 users...I thought that offer ended ages ago?

Cheers

 

Wait... seriously?

 

So the push to upgrade to win10 was this ED decision to stop the win7 support, you didn't have any hint before?

Like the fact that Microsoft cut down the support for win7 a year ago?

Like the fact that win 7 released in 2009, about 12 years ago?

In the meantime there was Win8, and Win10 that we have today, with Win10 being released in 2015.

 

So all this time you have had no proper push to upgrade to win10?

 

You can find win10 key for digital download online, google it, it is very cheap about 3€. Presuming you have moved from dial-up connection, if not may this be a proper push for you to go DSL ;D

[The_Dan]

The built in prompt to upgrade in Win 7 isn't no more available. Though there are some ways to upgrade to Win 10 for free. You could just download the Windows Media Cration tool from Microsoft and boot from this device install Win 10 from this and it may just activate. You could also just completly wipe your drive and do a fresh install of Win 10 and just use your Win 7 key and it may work.

I say 'may' because it usually works but it isn't an official way to upgrade. I did this on some PCs and it worked but there is no guarantee. You should google this or ask someone for assistance if you aren't confident.

Edited January 20, 2021 by The_Dan

[Eldur]

On 1/16/2021 at 10:49 PM, FoxTwo said:

 

Windows 7 send telemetry data to microsoft as well. For years now.

 

Live with it.

 

Win 7 does send telemetry data. So did XP. And Vista, 8 and 8.1 as well, for those who actually ran those. But Win 10 reportedly does record your voice all the time and sends that to Google. Look for "dog toys" if you don't beleive. But regardless, anything prior to 10 is dead support wise and shouldn't be used anymore (said the dude still running 'droid 4.4.2), welcome to post 84.

 

On 1/17/2021 at 7:48 PM, BIGNEWY said:

 

Next and last update for supporting windows 7 is planned for the 27th of January. I dont have a date for patches following that update yet. 

 

You may find windows 7 works after this, but we are expecting issue for windows 7 users with patches when we get to 2.7, hence the warning now for switching to windows 10. 

 

Please dont derail this thread with pros and cons of windows 10 over 7. Windows 7 is end of life, microsoft have stopped supporting it with there own software, and the time has come for DCS to stop supporting it also as it is holding back new code and features.  

 

thanks

 

That's what we wanted to know. Thanks. Anyway, users should have switched over to Open Alpha a year ago already, I mean - even I did. My wild guess though is that the chance of DCS getting bricked on 7 is less than Win 10 bricking itself with another feature update. So the relevant question that hasn't been asked yet should be:

 

Will DCS 2.7 still run on 2004 (or even older) or does it require 2010 aka 20H2? Requiring "Windows 10" is like saying I have an i5 and a GeForce GTX. Could be anything.

[Lange_666]

7 hours ago, jasonbirder said:

Is there really a "Free" upgrade path for Windows 7 users...I thought that offer ended ages ago?

 

It ended "officially" but then it didn't and since then i did read more then a couple of times that the free upgrade still stands until this day.

And if not, why not go with a cheap license?

A few option for this are: https://www.vip-scdkey.com/ or https://www.cdkoffers.com/

Some websites like Guru3D offer discounts on these from time to time so you can get them even cheaper.

 

 

[Dragon1-1]

4 hours ago, Eldur said:

But Win 10 reportedly does record your voice all the time and sends that to Google. 

It doesn't, it presumably refers to Cortana, which you can just turn off. Also, M$ wouldn't send anything to Google without your express request - they already are trying to push people into Bing.  They wouldn't abuse your privacy just to enrich their competition, after all. 

 

My microphone is on a USB camera that turns on a LED whenever it has power. So far, the only thing I noticed accessing the mike without a good reason is Oculus (and I'm getting rid of that as soon as my Reverb G2 comes in). 

[Mars Exulte]

4 hours ago, Eldur said:

 

Win 7 does send telemetry data. So did XP. And Vista, 8 and 8.1 as well, for those who actually ran those.

 True.

 

Quote

But Win 10 reportedly does record your voice all the time and sends that to Google. Look for "dog toys" if you don't beleive.

 ''Things that never happened for $100, Alex''.

 

Unless you somehow have an open mic 24/7, that's not possible in the first place. If you don't have a mic at all (which many people will not) it's not possible at all ever x2. And as mentioned above, Microsoft isn't going to transmit jack to one of their main competitors.

 

Quote

My wild guess though is that the chance of DCS getting bricked on 7 is less than Win 10 bricking itself with another feature update.

 Disabling W10's autoupdates is literally the first thing I do on any new install. Also, I have not typically had any issues with W10 bricking anything, although it does periodically install bloatware, which is also preventable.

Edited January 20, 2021 by zhukov032186

[jasonbirder]

23 hours ago, Furiz said:

Wait... seriously?

 

So the push to upgrade to win10 was this ED decision to stop the win7 support, you didn't have any hint before?

So all this time you have had no proper push to upgrade to win10?

 

 

What (functionality wise at least) IS the push to migrate to Windows 10? I use Windows 10 on my work PC and home/work laptops and it doesn't seem to offer any advantages

Besides...as I said I still run Windows 7 on my home desktop for some old, old legacy software...but I'll drop it if I have to, to continue running DCS - doesn't seem THAT outrageous!

[rayrayblues]

On 1/20/2021 at 6:13 AM, The_Dan said:

The built in prompt to upgrade in Win 7 isn't no more available. Though there are some ways to upgrade to Win 10 for free. You could just download the Windows Media Cration tool from Microsoft and boot from this device install Win 10 from this and it may just activate.

If you boot from the Media Creation Tool, the option to upgrade from 7 is still there.

Either download it to a flash drive or burn it to a DVD.

Insert tool, restart and press F8 to get to the boot menu.

Select the drive or disc to boot from and follow the prompts. 

It's free.

[5ephir0th]

I don´t expect an answer but i have to try it

It´s the 2.7 coming with a new engine (maybe with DX12 support) so thats why it makes it Win7 not supported?