Vive Pro 2

[dburne]

9 hours ago, Pride37 said:

 

I wouldn't say that WMR by itself is such a headhache, it works pretty well. Where it starts to hurt is when we're tied to SteamVR to make games (DCS particularly) to work in VR... And then it's a mess and a real pain in the bottom to setup and run everything properly. And let's say honnestly, we need to use SteamVR 95% of the time for gaming.

That's why I'm dreaming of a proper native integration in DCS as what has been done for Oculus headsets, or OpenXR integration like for "the other civil sim" (for which I have absolutely no clue if it can be easilly done, or requires a full core code rewrite...)

Maybe @BIGNEWY would be kind to make a status update or precisions on those points... Users of "the other sim" seemed to experience a dramatic performance increase when using OpenXR instead of SteamVR.

Concerning tracking performances, I only have experience on Rift S and Reverb G2. I wouldn't speak about basestations, except there is a general consensus to praise them as the best traking system. But Rift S was pretty solid for me, never experienced any flaw. For the G2, it's clearly not on par with Oculus, but depending on the games played, it's annoying (Asgard's Wrath using Revive) to almost unnoticeable (Alyx). For flight and racing sims only, I'm not so sure if the price difference between basestations and inside/out tracking justify the (possible) negligible difference in head tracking only (for those like me who don't use the hand controllers in sim games)

 

 

The Lighthouse 2.0 tracking system from Valve is truly second to none, it is incredible. For me it was very easy to set up, and I am able to just leave it set up so it was no big deal for me.

However I will say, it is not needed for flight sims. It works great with them, but not needed. Inside out tracking of Rift S, Reverb , and Quest will work just fine for flight sims for those that are budget minded.

I use my Reverb G2 rather than Index for flight sims due to the extra clarity in the cockpit. And I don't have any tracking issues with it.

 

Granted with latest beta of WMR for Steam VR it has some big issues though. Hopefully they can get those worked out before it moves to the release version.

 

[mhe]

10 hours ago, Supmua said:

OK I got some info on the headset output settings.

Performance: 2448x1224, 120 Hz

Balanced: 3264x1632, 90 Hz

High: 3627x1836, 90 Hz

Ultra: 4896x2448, 90 Hz

Extreme: 4896x2448, 120 Hz

 

The above are options on HTC Vive app, I'm not sure if it will override SteamVR SS setting or the other way around or some sort of additive effect if you use both.

SteamVR motion smoothing also doesn't appear to work, and this reprojection is set via Vive's own app.  Whether this is the way it is going to be or they'll add SteamVR motion smoothing later on is up in the air.

 

The Viveport tool configures what SteamVR thinks is the native panel resolution. So if you set it to either Ultra or Extreme, SteamVR will take that res and add whatever barrel distortion multiplier the driver says and make that "100%". You can still adjust the percentages up and down inside SteamVR like with any other headset since render resolution does not equal output resolution. Basically the Viveport tool configures the options of the driver itself whereas SteamVR is merely a compositor that does its own thing in the whole rendering stack.

 

If you choose anything lower than Ultra, you will not be able to ever utilize the full resolution potential of the headset, because even if your render resolution is ridiculous, it would still get downsampled to what you set in Viveport and then upscaled on the headset again to fit the native panel res, resulting in less quality than would be possible if you haven't downsampled before the transmission to the HMD (which at Ultra and Extreme settings does require DSC to work in your setup due to Displayport bandwidth constraints). 

Edited May 28, 2021 by mhe

[Baldrick33]

1 hour ago, DigitalEngine said:

I have the HTC Vive, however, I do not have the "Vive Port" software installed, just steam VR. I'm wondering if I can do the same with the Vive Pro2?

 

I believe you need some kind of Vive control panel which manages settings for the device driver.

[Supmua]

I don’t think you can just run SteamVR with the new Vive Pro 2.  According to what I’ve seen and read, Vive software is required for full functionality of the headset at least as of now.  So I think the setup process will be a bit more complex than the older Vive devices.  By this time next week some of the people here should have the headsets in their hands, then more info will follow.  I plan to do extensive testings especially in image fidelity area.  If anybody isn’t sure do not preorder unless you want high res VR now, as I think this headset is still going to be a stop gap in VR tech.

[Baldrick33]

 

[A2597]

I actually paid the $1 to read MRTV's review while he's still editing.

I think I'm convinced to pre-order now. He addresses many of the issues that have come up, and it sounds like the perfect upgrade for me.

*almost* Reverb G2 quality, but with Index FOV.

not as good sound as Index/G2, but if I'm that perturbed by it, I'll grab my Bose headphones. LOL

 

Getting the older V1 lighthouses, since no real reason to get V2 for my room setup.

[Supmua]

One important thing to keep in mind about the Vive headphones is that they have to be compressed directly against your ears to create a seal, otherwise the bass output sounds very thin.  There are 3D print solutions or use of rubberbands to help with this for the Vive Pro.  Since I think the Pro 2 is just the Pro with new screen, I would expect the same for headphones and mic quality (i.e. ok but not great).

[Supmua]

K, more info regarding how to increase HFOV and VFOV by using a thinner face pad.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wk_fa_koh5I

 

In summary, this guy is able to increase HFOV to a whopping 118 degree and VFOV to 96 degree.  This puts the Vive Pro 2 in 2nd place for HFOV after Pimax 8KX, and 3rd place in VFOV after Index and Pimax 8KX (Other headsets in the test include Rift S, Quest 1/2, Reverb G2, Cosmos, Pico Neo 2).

[Supmua]

Rubberband mod to create good audio.
There’re more elegant solutions but this works pretty well for me.

Edited May 29, 2021 by Supmua

[Supmua]

A fairly detail and pretty fair review from Sebastian/MRTV.  I’m glad he took his time to do this review rather than rushing it like a few other guys.

https://mrtv.co/2021/05/vive-pro-2-review/

[A2597]

Yeah, and his clip from XPlane showed me all I needed to know to feel comfortable pre-ordering, along with two V1 base stations.

Next up, some Knuckles from Valve...

[mhe]

Pre-ordered as well, should get mine a day or two after shipping starts, fingers crossed. I have no doubts that this will be the new goto for simmers for a while now. The big leaps in VR will only be done again once DP2.0 drops, providing the bandwidth to go even higher than this. But for now, this will be the headset to beat. Would be interesting to see whether you can somehow fit the Index/G2 headphones to it. 

 

Eye tracking module should come out later this year, but since it is the same company that does it for the Pimax HMDs, I won't hold my breath for it to be any good. 

[Supmua]

Another review.  https://www.pocket-lint.com/ar-vr/reviews/htc/157057-htc-vive-pro-2-review?fbclid=IwAR3Sys_T6n5Qz8yosqjQQh301UwzIfdJ_geFCpbmDV0zlWEnUBe7vazxvGM#verdict
 

These guys have been around much longer than those youtubers, since the age of the old Windows mobile devices which no longer exists.  Their reviews are in general trustworthy, although sometimes not very technical.

Edited May 29, 2021 by Supmua

[imacken]

I owned the VP1, and generally liked it, but the audio and the mic were really poor.

Looks like they are the same hardware in the VP2, and if that is the case, then it's no pre-order from me.

[Rosebud47]

For me, running a G2 at the moment ( and being happy with it ), the upgrade to a VP2, is too expensive. But the different output resolution makes the VP2 very unique and it could bring some really good advantages.

So far the output resolution of every VR headset is fixed to the displays resolution. The reason for that, I believe, is that the resolution all the headsets provide, is on the edge of screendoor effects or below. Now with displays of a resolution 2160 x 2160 per eye (G2) or 2448 x 2448 per eye ( VivePro2 ) this edge of a noticable screendoor effect is overcome.

 

Theoretically - practice tests need to show, if the theory works - with the Vive Pro 2 you could run it a lower render resolution with better performance and without any screendoor effect.

Maybe at lower resolution and less to need rendered pixel, there could be add all the nice effects DCS provides and maybe got a better picture and better performance as in the high resolution of 2448 x 2448 and bad perfromance because of the high render pixel count. The point is a non-existent screendoor effect and shimmering effects with the lower output resolution on the high res. displays. No other VR headset provided this option before. Well, practice has to tell how this works. I´m pretty sure that the output resultion options soon will be integrated into SteamVR, so the Vive Software would not be needed in future to adjust the headset. HTC and Valve were always in close cooperation.

 

Regarding OpenXR in DCS, I would think it is a waste of time to implement OpenXR into the current DCS graphic API, as OpenXR is fully integrated in Vulkan. Once DCS switches to Vulkan, OpenXR will be the new API and every headset will have a native support in DCS from this point on.     

[Supmua]

There is also something new with the Vive Pro 2 which is DSC (display stream compression), and this might be the reason why MRTV saw much better framerates on the Vive Pro 2 vs Reverb G2 in benchmarks, besides the obvious overhead from having an extra WMR layer in SteamVR games.  This technology is something worth exploring if works as advertise, and I’m quite eager to test this myself. 

[FoxTwo]

29 minutes ago, Supmua said:

There is also something new with the Vive Pro 2 which is DSC (display stream compression), and this might be the reason why MRTV saw much better framerates on the Vive Pro 2 vs Reverb G2 in benchmarks, besides the obvious overhead from having an extra WMR layer in SteamVR games.  This technology is something worth exploring if works as advertise, and I’m quite eager to test this myself. 

 

Display port 1.4's DSC is only necessary to push 120Hz at greater than 4k resolutions. It's using a lossy 3:1 compression algorithm on the data stream to fit over the bandwidth requirements of the display interface. They call it "visually lossless" so you shouldn't notice that it's on.

 

At 90Hz 4k you're pretty close to the bandwidth limit of DP 1.3 so DSC is not required, hence none on the G2.

 

It's a transport stream, it doesn't have anything to do with performance.

 

The Pimax 8kx has been using it since it launched, but I guess it wasn't mainstream enough for the VR press to pick up on.

Edited May 30, 2021 by FoxTwo

[Baldrick33]

Another review, this one actually refers to running DCS:

 

https://vicbstard.medium.com/htc-vive-pro-2-vr-headset-review-vic-bstard-s-state-of-play-61991a50e0ac

[imacken]

Hmm, I'm hovering over the 'checkout' button. Today is the last day for getting the £60 discount!

[Tom Kazansky]

1 minute ago, imacken said:

Hmm, I'm hovering over the 'checkout' button. Today is the last day for getting the £60 discount!

Buy it for the sake of the DCS community

[imacken]

7 minutes ago, Tom Kazansky said:

Buy it for the sake of the DCS community

OK, you convinced me! Done!

 

Edited May 31, 2021 by imacken

[A2597]

At least now there's more of us to test and help troubleshoot DCS and find graphical ideal settings for this beast of a headset. Lol

[Lt_Jaeger]

You guys made me to pre-order it too in the last moment   Where should it end.... what do I do with my Index and the G2 now?   I'm always kinda reluctant to sell stuff on eBay, but I guess I have to start now

[imacken]

Why the reluctance for eBay?  I sell all my stuff on eBay, so upgrades don't actually cost that much.

[Taz1004]

8 minutes ago, imacken said:

Why the reluctance for eBay?  I sell all my stuff on eBay, so upgrades don't actually cost that much.

 

Did eBay get better?  Seller scammed me and sold me dead graphic card.  I went back and saw the pictures of his posting and it had heatsink screws removed.  And his posting also said it was never overclocked.  It was clear evidence of scam but eBay took 8 months to refund my money.  Never used them since then but that was long time ago.  I wonder if they have better protection?

Edited May 31, 2021 by Taz1004