DCS……..too much, too soon?

[markturner1960]

Don’t get me wrong here, as I am personally looking forward so much to the F15E and Phantom……but there is the Mirage F1, not to mention existing modules like the F14 and Viper I have literally barely even used yet……….I brought the Spitfire last week, but not yet touched it, as I am currently chin deep in trying to learn the Harrier and Apaches, as well as keep current in the Hornet and F5……….

I have maybe 15 modules yet barely fly 5 of them…………and it’s only getting worse………..

What can you do?!!!

[Svsmokey]

You are powerless to resist...embrace the chaos

[Hiob]

Hehe, see it as a collection. Only instead of shelving physical models that collect dust, you collect modules. 

They don’t need to be cleaned and you can take them for a ride from time to time…. 

[Dragon1-1]

I do SP campaigns. Their number is growing, but slowly. Just fly one module in SP until you exhaust good quality content for it, and then switch. I have a huge backlog of those, but when I actually have time to fly, I go through it faster than it grows.

[Tom Kazansky]

The high degree of realism that DCS offers is at the same time the reason for something very unrealistic:

I can easily claim that not a single pilot in the history of aviation has ever had the opportunity to fly that many aircraft, fixed wings helicopters, VTOLs,... in his lifetime at the same time.

What OP experiences is the natural outcome of something overwhelming.

I for one enjoy this advantage over any real pilot.

Especially in VR a module is worth buying for me as soon as I feel the cockpit, listen to the sound, get it airborne and back to the ground.

Everything else is a bonus.

Edited July 10, 2022 by Tom Kazansky

[Dragon1-1]

1 hour ago, Tom Kazansky said:

I can easily claim that not a single pilot in the history of aviation has ever had the opportunity to fly that many aircraft, fixed wings helicopters, VTOLs,... in his lifetime at the same time.

You'd be wrong:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chuck_Yeager
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Anders

Or any test pilot, really. These are people whose very job is flying a whole lot of different aircraft, some of them for the first time ever. Sure, they can't change them quite as often as we do (unless you're Bill Anders and have a whole museum's worth of aircraft to pick from), but they still need to adapt quickly, this was particularly true in the old days when aircraft development didn't take so long, and prototypes were being rolled out at a rapid pace. 

Of course, we get to be test pilots, too. Each time a module releases, with little documentation and bugs galore.  

[Tom Kazansky]

Agreed. But even those didn't have the opportunity to come back to every aircraft, each day like we have it in DCS. That was my point when I said it is unrealistically overwhelming (in a good way for me).

And yes, we are all Sim-Test-Pilots

 

Edited July 11, 2022 by Tom Kazansky

[Furiz]

You can't really learn so many airframes at once and in depth, you can learn basics of many but only few in depth to be able to operate them on a high lvl of experience. Thats why real pilots (not test pilots) never fly more than 2 airframes, maybe 3 but thats rare, cause if they switch a lot of planes and then find them selves in a combat situation they might get confused with muscle memory and do something bad.

I fly Viper and Hornet and for now its more than enough for me, I bought Apache to own a heli and to see if I'd like heli, I fly it now and and then just to reset. And I don't expect to know to use Apache on the same lvl as I know Viper and Hornet.

So buying so many airframes for me is not an option, I'd rather buy maps and I think only module I'd buy next is Rafale (if the stars align the right way and we somehow get that one). 

So don't beat your self about it, you simply cant fly them all at the same time. But if you want to collect them all, no one is stopping you.

Edited July 10, 2022 by Furiz

[Lange_666]

20 hours ago, markturner1960 said:

I have maybe 15 modules yet barely fly 5 of them…………and it’s only getting worse………..

What can you do?!!!

I own:

Behind it Yes/No if i fly/flown it. If Yes, it doesn't mean i know the module throughly, like for instance i can only cold start the A-10 C.
Yes in bold means those are flown the most the past 2-3 years.

- FC3:
  - A-10A: Yes
  - F-15: No
  - Mig-29: No
  - Su-25: No
  - Su-27: No
  - Su-33: Trial runs on the Kuznetsof
 
- Combined Arms: No

 - A-10C (and II): Yes
 - ASJ37 Viggen: No
 - AV8BNA: No
 - C-101CC/EB: No
 - F-5E-3: Yes
 - F-14: No
 - F-16C: Yes
 - F-18C: Yes
 - F-86F: Yes
 - Hawk: Yes (but is no more)
 - L-39: No
 - M-2000C: No
 - MIG-15Bis: No
 - MIG-21Bis: No
 - S-25T: No

WW2
 - FW-190D9: No
 - Bf-109K-4: No
 - Spitfire: No
 - P-47D: No
 - P-51D: No
 - TP-51: No

Helo's:
 - UH-1H: Yes
 - KA-50: Yes (but long time ago)
 - Apache AH-64-D: Yes (started when it was released, since then on hold).

Mods
 - A4: No

Terrains:
 - Caucasus: Yes
 - NTTR: Yes
 - Persian Gulf: Yes
 - Syria: Yes
 - Normandy + WWII Assets pack: No (still have to see one of those assets, lol)
 - Channel Map: No
 - Marianas: No: nice looking but to heavy for my system
 - South Atlantic: No

Not in my collection:
 - Mi-24P Hind
 - Gazelle: Flown in a 14-day trial, didn't buy
 - Mi-8MTV2
 - FW-190A8
 - Mosquito
 - Yak-52
 - I-16
 - JF17
 - Christen Eagle (no idea what this is doing in DCS)
 - MIG-19P
 - NS430
 - Most campaigns

 

[Japo32]

What I do is force me to fly an aircraft each time. So I go the botton menu and choose the background image to remember what I have to fly next. That way I remember more or less each aircraft I have. I do it in single player campaigns payware or free to download.

[fille_swe]

Ive got alot of modules and most i buy to support the developers and 3rd party. I fly most the Viper, ah 64 and Huey.

Time to time i do a ww2 campaign and get a month of two of ww2 flying.

[markturner1960]

Yeah, of course, I think most of buy to support DCS and ED, which is great.....I just wish I had more time!!!!

[fille_swe]

Yeah same here. 

[Eldur]

We do need 48h or even 72h long days and getting paid for our time logged in DCS so noone has to go work for a living. Maybe Princess Sunbutt could do something about the first thing...

[Hog_No32]

On 7/10/2022 at 4:57 PM, Furiz said:

You can't really learn so many airframes at once and in depth, you can learn basics of many but only few in depth to be able to operate them on a high lvl of experience. Thats why real pilots (not test pilots) never fly more than 2 airframes, maybe 3 but thats rare, cause if they switch a lot of planes and then find them selves in a combat situation they might get confused with muscle memory and do something bad.

I fly Viper and Hornet and for now its more than enough for me, I bought Apache to own a heli and to see if I'd like heli, I fly it now and and then just to reset. And I don't expect to know to use Apache on the same lvl as I know Viper and Hornet.

So buying so many airframes for me is not an option, I'd rather buy maps and I think only module I'd buy next is Rafale (if the stars align the right way and we somehow get that one). 

So don't beat your self about it, you simply cant fly them all at the same time. But if you want to collect them all, no one is stopping you.

 

100% what I thought!

I think for (most of) us, the problem with bad muscle memory when switching between aircrafts is even exacerbated by the fact that we have to use the exact same physical controls in every aircraft. At least I do not have different sticks or throttles for different aircraft. I use my trusty TM Warthog ever since I purchased it (more than 10 years ago…) for whatever I put in the air.

I can manage to switch between the A-10C and the Hornet pretty good. Those are the two aircraft I consider myself pretty proficient in. Before the Hornet came out I mainly flew the Viggen, also a beautiful aircraft. But now she is a hangar queen, just like the M2000, the Gazelle, the Harrier and the Apache. The latter two I just bought for „fun flights“ and to support Razbam and ED. Maybe one day I‘ll decide to learn the Harrier a but more in depth, but I figured early on that the Apache will be way too complicated for me and I am not the greatest helo pilot anyway. Plus the concept of simulating a two-seat aircraft as a single person is one that scares me off of these modules. No doubt the AI is great and gets even better…it‘s just not my cup of tea.

I know, there is nothing you cannot learn. But my aspiration is to fly and operate an aircraft and get really good at it (muscle memory being only one of the items) so that I can succeed in stressfull combat missions. For my little brain (and admittedly with the few flight hours per month that my RL allows me to log), that means no more than 2 complex aircraft at the same time. So Hog or Hornet. Or nothing

[Dragon1-1]

Mirage is actually really easy to learn, and it has great SP content. Really neat little airplane, that one. Harrier is complex and is also in a bit of a mess right now. Plus, the engine audio is horrible, I'm going to either substitute some other sounds or run the existing ones through some audio filters before I get back into it.

[zildac]

Beg to differ... The Harrier is the nuts

[Dangerzone]

On 7/10/2022 at 7:04 AM, markturner1960 said:

Don’t get me wrong here, as I am personally looking forward so much to the F15E and Phantom……but there is the Mirage F1, not to mention existing modules like the F14 and Viper I have literally barely even used yet……….I brought the Spitfire last week, but not yet touched it, as I am currently chin deep in trying to learn the Harrier and Apaches, as well as keep current in the Hornet and F5……….

I have maybe 15 modules yet barely fly 5 of them…………and it’s only getting worse………..

What can you do?!!!

For me - I find what's helpful is to fly with others online in discord. Trying to remember all the systems of all the aircraft is a full time job - and I don't have that time in DCS. To be in an aircraft that I've flown in the past, but then have a 'brain empty' moment of forgetting how to do something or 'why isn't it working' with the system and being able to ask another pilot as I'm flying  (or help someone else out - vise versa) helps us to be able to fly a wider range of aircraft that I own and still be able to use the systems. 

What a position to be in though - to have too much. More than we can handle. The times we live in!

 

[BuzzU]

You should have just stayed with the Hornet and learned it completely. Just send money to ED is you want to support the sim. You'll be less frustrated.

[silverdevil]

i have a lot of modules too. it makes me feel better to make a mission where all of them are in their parking areas and fly by at 100 feet. 

seriously though. i always try to get good at take off, flying and landing each. some modules i have never taken a shot with any weapon. flying is pretty easy.

become a pilot before becoming a warrior.

[Svsmokey]

5 minutes ago, silverdevil said:

become a pilot before becoming a warrior.

Good advice , that .

[Dangerzone]

8 hours ago, silverdevil said:

become a pilot before becoming a warrior.

Brilliant advise! 

Even so - there are too many systems, and too many modules to be fully competent in all.

What I've done is a bit of a compromise... I think with DCS the best approach is:

 

To be a jack of all trades, a master of one.  (or maybe two if you get real excited)

 

So, for me, I've try and learn the hornet inside out - everything about it. Navigation, waypoints, all weapon systems, you name it.

Next I have other aircraft that I know enough about in some systems to make myself competent for certain mission types only, but not for everything. (Often this will be in areas that it performs better than the hornet. Think F16 HARMS, or anti-armour GBU's), or F14 intercepting (A/A only, etc)...  I may 'tinker' with other systems/weapons, but my goal for these secondary aircraft is just to know enough about it to use it effectively in one or two scenario's. 

And last I have some aircraft that I just want to learn the flight model / characteristics of (and manage to A/A in them) and I'm happy. 

In amongst all this there are some models that I fly and learn a lot about, but then after 'having my time in it' I will end up letting them go and not remain current in them to make time and brain room for other modules. (Such as migrating from the KA50 which I've flown for years, to the Apache now). 

Each person flies for different reasons, so this model that works for me may not work for others, but I do find there is something satisfying about being able to fly all aircraft I own, be proficient in one area of each aircraft well, and yet have one or two aircraft I know inside out. To try and do more I think would end up compromising my skills in other areas. 

Edited July 14, 2022 by Dangerzone

[silverdevil]

Quote

DCS: AH-64D
DCS: A-10C II Tank Killer
DCS: Supercarrier
DCS: F-16C Viper
DCS: AV-8B Night Attack V/STOL
DCS: MiG-19P Farmer
DCS: F-5E Tiger II by Belsimtek
DCS: F/A-18C Hornet
DCS: Combined Arms (download version)
DCS: MiG-15bis by Belsimtek (download beta version)
DCS: Combined Arms (download version)
DCS: F-86F Sabre by Belsimtek (download beta version)
DCS: A-10C Warthog (download version)
DCS: Flaming Cliffs 3 (download version)
DCS: P-51D Mustang (download version)
DCS: A-10C Warthog (download version)

i am especially proud of the modules i purchased twice lol.  $ 856.75 includes maps and campaigns...

[Cathnan]

I too have many modules. Silly little me thinking after getting the Hornet, Dora, Shark and hearing about the Eurofighter, that the Typhoon would be the next  modue I buy apart from maps.

I've decided be pleased with getting a general grip on most of the modules, so I can pick up startup and weapons employment with limited time spend on reading manuals when I take one out every now and then. And get properly proficient with 2 or 3. So far that worked quite well. I'm reasonably competent in operating (not necessarily fighting in ) the Hornet, and want to make the Apache my main Helo. Once the Typhoon comes out it'll get the special treatment too, so I can relive my EF2000 childhood dreams .

P.S. @Heatblur, ED or other third party devs, Iceland map when?