landing this jolly aircraft

[treasure]

Hey guys, noobie here hoping for some help.  iam starting to practice my landings.  landing at Mineralnye Vody on caucus map, longest runway in sim is no co-incidence haha.  Just wondering what nominal fuel flow should be?.  Assume AOA correct, speed brakes out, speed 175.  Flight path marker pointed at beginning of runway.  I have watched  a few landing videos, and fuel flow seems a bit all over the place

[Hiob]

AOA is the only thing that matters. Resulting Speed and Fuel Flow depends on a multitude of variables. Like drag (payload), wind, gross weight......

Just trim for the correct AOA, put Flight Path Marker and 2.5° line on the aim point and modulate throttle for corrections. Easier said than done, I know.

But Fuel Flow is not your concern when landing!

[Scotch75]

I believe fuel flow will not be the same for every landing as it will be directly proportional to your landing weight. You set your AoA as a constant with a 3° glideslope (your velocity vector will be on the 3° mark and on the threshold you are landing at). Your landing weight will determine how much throttle (and therefore fuel flow) you need to hold the above two parameters constant. If you find you are ballooning a bit, rather than changing your throttle, you can momentarily extend the speedbreaks, then release, and they will go back to to the landing set.

Cheers!



Sent from my SM-G998B using Tapatalk

[treasure]

thanks for your replies guys, only thing i am not considering is the 2.5 or 3 degree glideslope, i assume you are both talking about the same thing.  Can you point out on the HUD where i should see this so i can factor in?  Thx

 

[TobiasA]

vor 21 Minuten schrieb treasure:

Hey guys, noobie here hoping for some help.  iam starting to practice my landings.  landing at Mineralnye Vody on caucus map, longest runway in sim is no co-incidence haha.  Just wondering what nominal fuel flow should be?.  Assume AOA correct, speed brakes out, speed 175.  Flight path marker pointed at beginning of runway.  I have watched  a few landing videos, and fuel flow seems a bit all over the place

Only AOA matters. I never look at apeed, fuel flow... Because they don't matter. Fly the bracket, don't have more than 13° AOA on touchdown and don't have less than abot 10. That's it.

[razo+r]

1 minute ago, treasure said:

thanks for your replies guys, only thing i am not considering is the 2.5 or 3 degree glideslope, i assume you are both talking about the same thing.  Can you point out on the HUD where i should see this so i can factor in?  Thx

 

You will only see the 2.5 degree indicator if the gear is down, which is not the case in the picture you attached.

 

But once gear is down you should see the 2.5 degree indicator at the 2.5 degree on the pitch ladder.

Edited August 31, 2022 by razo+r

[_SteelFalcon_]

There‘s a dashed 2.5 degree line when your gear is out.

[TobiasA]

vor 1 Minute schrieb treasure:

thanks for your replies guys, only thing i am not considering is the 2.5 or 3 degree glideslope, i assume you are both talking about the same thing.  Can you point out on the HUD where i should see this so i can factor in?  Thx

 

If you have gear down, there is a slotted line at 2.5 degrees down. If this is on the runway threshold or little after that, it'll be fine. 

The line is only shown with gear down. 

[treasure]

thanks guys, i think i have all the nuts and bolts needed now, i have a feeling its going to take  a while to get this right, but iam determined   i might make sure my fuel load is a bit on the light side too

[jojojung]

vor 7 Stunden schrieb treasure:

Hey guys, noobie here hoping for some help.  iam starting to practice my landings.  landing at Mineralnye Vody on caucus map, longest runway in sim is no co-incidence haha.  Just wondering what nominal fuel flow should be?.  Assume AOA correct, speed brakes out, speed 175.  Flight path marker pointed at beginning of runway.  I have watched  a few landing videos, and fuel flow seems a bit all over the place

Hey for me it worked perfect without trimming at all.
This link is for a another F16 Sim but its a very good PDF Doc.
While approch just lay the FPM just above the braket and only at touchdown pull it in the middle of the braket.
Just try it and you will never ever have troubles again.
The trim method is written there to but i dont prefer it as said.

http://www.185th.co.uk/files/Training/Assessment/F-16_Landing_Tutorial.pdf

Edited August 31, 2022 by jojojung

[Aquorys]

5 hours ago, treasure said:

landing at Mineralnye Vody on caucus map, longest runway in sim is no co-incidence haha. 

I guess you are right for the Caucasus map, but in the entire sim, I think the longest runway is probably the extremely long (and normally inactive) 13/31 at the Groom lake facility in Nevada. I think the Persian gulf map also has several runways that are slightly longer than the one in Mineralnye Vody.

5 hours ago, treasure said:

Assume AOA correct, speed brakes out, speed 175

The speed will vary depending on your weight, so it is quite irrelevant. As others have already said, the value that you are most interested in is your AoA.

5 hours ago, treasure said:

I have watched  a few landing videos, and fuel flow seems a bit all over the place

That's normal

5 hours ago, Scotch75 said:

You set your AoA as a constant with a 3° glideslope

Most VFR landings in the F-16 are around 2.5°, because there is a dashed line in the HUD for that. If you are flying an ILS approach, it would typically be 3°.

Some approaches may require a steeper glideslope, or a steep approach might be done for tactical reasons (or another reason would be a deadstick landing), so it's not a bad idea to practice those too.

Personally, I fly 2.5° approaches at the upper edge of the bracket or slightly above, then pull back the throttle, flare and just wait for the aircraft to settle down onto the runway. For steeper approaches, I fly slightly faster and aim in front of the runway. Bringing the edge of the runway roughly in the middle between the flight path marker and the 2.5° dashed line until all three overlap is quite a good method to flatten out a steep approach before landing.

For instrument approaches, just keep the flight path marker at the upper edge of the bracket and fly the glideslope and localizer. If you are off course, once the localizer indicator touches the flight path marker's circle, you should be within 5 degrees of the runway heading (plus/minus any crosswind corrections), or you will probably overshoot. Normally, you can just keep the flight path marker on the circle, and you can slightly lead the circle if it is guiding you to turn or pitch up/down.

Once you are comfortable with the standard approach, and you're looking for some challenges, you can try some of these approaches:
Novorossiysk 22
Gelendzhik 19
Khasab 01
Kutaisi west (in the city) from east
Low visibility HI-TACAN 21L / ILS 21L into Nellis

 

[Machalot]

14 minutes ago, jojojung said:

Hey for me it worked perfect without trimming at all.

Yes, generally you should not be trimming in pitch, only roll as necessary for unbalanced loads. 

[Aquorys]

1 minute ago, Machalot said:

Yes, generally you should not be trimming in pitch, only roll as necessary for unbalanced loads. 

It's also worth noting that high speed on the wheels resets the pitch trim, so landing with a lot of pitch trim might not be the best idea.

[WHOGX5]

4 hours ago, Aquorys said:

I guess you are right for the Caucasus map, but in the entire sim, I think the longest runway is probably the extremely long (and normally inactive) 13/31 at the Groom lake facility in Nevada. I think the Persian gulf map also has several runways that are slightly longer than the one in Mineralnye Vody.

The speed will vary depending on your weight, so it is quite irrelevant. As others have already said, the value that you are most interested in is your AoA.

That's normal

Most VFR landings in the F-16 are around 2.5°, because there is a dashed line in the HUD for that. If you are flying an ILS approach, it would typically be 3°.

Some approaches may require a steeper glideslope, or a steep approach might be done for tactical reasons (or another reason would be a deadstick landing), so it's not a bad idea to practice those too.

Personally, I fly 2.5° approaches at the upper edge of the bracket or slightly above, then pull back the throttle, flare and just wait for the aircraft to settle down onto the runway. For steeper approaches, I fly slightly faster and aim in front of the runway. Bringing the edge of the runway roughly in the middle between the flight path marker and the 2.5° dashed line until all three overlap is quite a good method to flatten out a steep approach before landing.

For instrument approaches, just keep the flight path marker at the upper edge of the bracket and fly the glideslope and localizer. If you are off course, once the localizer indicator touches the flight path marker's circle, you should be within 5 degrees of the runway heading (plus/minus any crosswind corrections), or you will probably overshoot. Normally, you can just keep the flight path marker on the circle, and you can slightly lead the circle if it is guiding you to turn or pitch up/down.

Once you are comfortable with the standard approach, and you're looking for some challenges, you can try some of these approaches:
Novorossiysk 22
Gelendzhik 19
Khasab 01
Kutaisi west (in the city) from east
Low visibility HI-TACAN 21L / ILS 21L into Nellis

 

Actually, what is commonly done during ILS landings in the F-16 is that you approach it on the 3° ILS glideslope but once you have the runway in sight and you're in close you dip down to put the 2.5° line on the runway threshold in order to get a shallower flare.

[SickSidewinder9]

12 hours ago, Hiob said:

AOA is the only thing that matters. Resulting Speed and Fuel Flow depends on a multitude of variables. Like drag (payload), wind, gross weight......

Just trim for the correct AOA, put Flight Path Marker and 2.5° line on the aim point and modulate throttle for corrections. Easier said than done, I know.

But Fuel Flow is not your concern when landing!

THIS.  It's all about lining up all the symbology.  Do that a few times and it's easy.  The hard part for me was the runout.

I like to line it up so that the Flight Path Marker is just below the 2.5 line.  That gives you a nice 3 degree glide slope and matches with an ILS approach just perfectly.  Flare right before you land and maybe give it some power if you're slow/heavy to really soften the landing.  Then it's all about keeping the nose up and aerobraking.  13 degrees max.  I seem to get away with between 10 and 13.  Closer to 10.
PS, about 3 doots of aft trim on final seems to help the most.  Then you mostly just have to worry about left/right and power.  You'll get it, it just takes practice and pretty soon you'll wonder why you had such a hard time

Edited August 31, 2022 by SickSidewinder9

[Aquorys]

There isn't much overthinking in just keeping the AoA and the 2.5 degree line where they should be and then doing a proper flare and touchdown. We like to land properly, not just slam it into the ground somehow, we're Viper guys, we're not the Navy 

[treasure]

10 hours ago, Aquorys said:

There isn't much overthinking in just keeping the AoA and the 2.5 degree line where they should be and then doing a proper flare and touchdown. We like to land properly, not just slam it into the ground somehow, we're Viper guys, we're not the Navy 

 

dont mean to overthink it, i am just trying to make sure i havnt missed anything, i havnt had a successful landing yet, i am very new, only just recently heard about flaring, never know that existed, so thanks for your patience

[_SteelFalcon_]

there is a pinned thread in the viper forum section with loads of videos from landings of all different kinds. it's worth checking them out to get an idea of what it should look like.

[SickSidewinder9]

21 hours ago, treasure said:

 

dont mean to overthink it, i am just trying to make sure i havnt missed anything, i havnt had a successful landing yet, i am very new, only just recently heard about flaring, never know that existed, so thanks for your patience

Have you seen a plane land before irl?  Watch that a few times.  They always flare.  Well, except carrier planes, lol.  You can even feel it if you've ever been on a plane (I am aware plenty of people haven't).  Next time you fly anywhere, pay attention at landing and takeoff.  You can feel the steps individually:  The rotation, the liftoff, the deceleration and descent.  The flare before touchdown.  I like landing and takeoff because it's the only time on a jetliner you really feel like you're flying.

Where I live, the airport's approach is right over town, so you can watch all the planes as they come in.  It's quite remarkable how they are descending and turning hard, and nose up attitude all at the same time.

Have you done the training missions?  Please don't be one of those people that has to be spoonfed everything in life.

Edited September 3, 2022 by SickSidewinder9

[Whiskey11]

On 9/3/2022 at 1:21 PM, SickSidewinder9 said:

Have you seen a plane land before irl?  Watch that a few times.  They always flare.  Well, except carrier planes, lol.  You can even feel it if you've ever been on a plane (I am aware plenty of people haven't).  Next time you fly anywhere, pay attention at landing and takeoff.  You can feel the steps individually:  The rotation, the liftoff, the deceleration and descent.  The flare before touchdown.  I like landing and takeoff because it's the only time on a jetliner you really feel like you're flying.

Where I live, the airport's approach is right over town, so you can watch all the planes as they come in.  It's quite remarkable how they are descending and turning hard, and nose up attitude all at the same time.

Have you done the training missions?  Please don't be one of those people that has to be spoonfed everything in life.

 

The difference is very apparent! 

[Hiob]

To call that Hornet touch down a "landing" is a euphemism....

[skywalker22]

12 hours ago, Whiskey11 said:

The difference is very apparent! 

F/A-18 has landing gears and stuff around it made from titanium I guess, else would be broken at a "landing" like that.

[SickSidewinder9]

19 hours ago, Whiskey11 said:

The difference is very apparent! 

Love that video

[silverdevil]

landing on carrier = controlled crash. i live near Oceana NAS in VA. there is a notable difference how the hornets land on the strip compared to on the boat. at Langley AFB the F-15s will flare too. F-5s need to flare also.

[KenaiPhoenix]

On 9/4/2022 at 7:18 PM, Whiskey11 said:

The difference is very apparent! 

 

Excellent video! Glad to know that Im not bad at landing, no, im just "navy landing" my F-16. 

 

Im sure the ground team love when I RTB from missions