Is it going to be worth going 3090 to 4090?

[Baldrick33]

18 minutes ago, WipeUout said:

It is not simple.  If your CPU is the bottleneck then getting a CPU with a higher single clock speed will help.  It will give your GPU some breathing room and you will be able to increase details/quality.  Settings also play a role in taxing more or less the CPU along with complexity of the mission (heavy scripting) and amount of action going on, such as the deck of a supercarrier with four catapults working.  One thing for sure, if your CPU can't pump the data to the GPU quick enough, then you may have the fastest GPU and it will not help.  A low CPU frametime should always be the target to get most out of your GPU.  Since I upgraded from a 9900k to a 12700k, my GPU is now the limitation and my CPU frametime is much lower.

The 4090 will allow to push details/quality further as long as you have to CPU to give it breathing space.   Now can someone get one and tell us how good/bad it is?

I have an 8600k running at 5GHz, is a newer CPU going to make much if any difference? My 2080Ti appears to be the bottleneck - at least in the mostly simple single player stuff I do. So wondering if a 3090Ti or 4090 is the next step or will the CPU hold either back?

[macedk]

Price on product .... nope. My take, it is insane for a gaming rig. For all in one machine sure, if you are crypto content creation and running ai simulations. 

The new fake frame insert to boost fps will introduce inputlag. If you have a 240hz display and can average 120 fps, you won't notice. If 3 out 4 frames are fake and count towards the fps...ehh what now ?

You will prolly need a new psu mb and cpu and ram to take full advantage. 

Dcs (sorry) is not a title to fully use the Nvidia architecture. 

I'm using a tricked out 2017 system and still enjoy DCS fine. nv 1080 32ram 4.5 gig cpu and ssd's acroos the board. 

Energy crisis in Europe and inflation, If you can wait, unless you want best gfx over, heat food, family welfare, vacation etc. :). 

Also brand new tech and many companies of other components are not on par yet. 
If you really want this, wait at least 3 months to get some decent drivers across the board. 

In relation to DCS it depends what you are trying to do. 

10.000 units all in play and moving, contact Google for a hardline for internet and rent a Google server park. No 4090 will help.

To DCS and community's credit, there is a ton of workarounds to make you current battlespace smooth. And trust me, DCS want to be good on any platform, the more that play the better. 

You make a killer mission for multiplayer but you are only one that can play it without stutter, what's the point. 

I was blessed in 2017 where i won a pc and chose parts and bulid it myself. 

Other companies in the tech space think we have unlimited money and will force us to buy new to be able to take part. DCS in my view is not like that. 
Thanks for that. 

Oh yeah you need a new case aswell, 4090 won't fit in your existing one... 

 

[Harlikwin]

1 hour ago, Digitalvole said:

I think that depends on the individual to a certain extent.

If you play multiplayer, for example, I would totally agree.

But if you play single player, maybe not so much. Still a factor ofc but not as much. As an example, I’ve been flying the Apache with the Apache Training ground mission, my cpu frame times seem pretty good most of the time (low teens) but my GPU (3090) is clearly showing the strain.

Of course better cpu utilisation can’t come soon enough, but the 4090 appears to be the first gpu where graphic settings, at least, aren’t going to be a problem anymore. I hope so anyway.

Yeah I mean it depends on your settings, I've optimized mine for online play and spotting. I'm sure I could do things to make it worse, but online its 100% a CPU problem for me not a GPU one. Offline yeah it would depend on the mission. 

45 minutes ago, Baldrick33 said:

I have an 8600k running at 5GHz, is a newer CPU going to make much if any difference? My 2080Ti appears to be the bottleneck - at least in the mostly simple single player stuff I do. So wondering if a 3090Ti or 4090 is the next step or will the CPU hold either back?

At least in VR Id say you won't see much improvment. My 9700k and 2080ti to a 3090 maybe netted me 5fps in VR. Going from 9700k to 12900k (both at 5ghz) netted me like 25-30 fps.

The performance difference between my 9700k and my 12900k in DCS was massive. And it makes sense if you look at the single core benchmarks. Its not just about GHZ, its things like Cache and IPC etc.

Edited October 14, 2022 by Harlikwin

[WipeUout]

13 minutes ago, macedk said:

I'm using a tricked out 2017 system and still enjoy DCS fine. nv 1080 32ram 4.5 gig cpu and ssd's acroos the board. 

I guess you play pancake.  Lots of good point but VR is a different story.

[Harlikwin]

14 minutes ago, WipeUout said:

I guess you play pancake.  Lots of good point but VR is a different story.

Yeah and this is a very good point, its very hard to compare pancake to VR. IDK if the CPU issues DCS has cuz its literally having to draw the same frame twice, but I suspect thats part of the issue. 

 

[3WA]

Just remember, the 4090 may be expensive, but in Winter, it makes for a great space heater.

[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

Amazed to watch discussion sans hard benchmark data. I have not 30x0 so both 30x0 and 40x0 are equally expensive to me. Guru3D says that, irc, 4090 is less hot in 3090Ti. 

[Baldrick33]

48 minutes ago, Harlikwin said:

At least in VR Id say you won't see much improvment. My 9700k and 2080ti to a 3090 maybe netted me 5fps in VR. Going from 9700k to 12900k (both at 5ghz) netted me like 25-30 fps.

The performance difference between my 9700k and my 12900k in DCS was massive. And it makes sense if you look at the single core benchmarks. Its not just about GHZ, its things like Cache and IPC etc.

 

Thanks, that is very useful info

[Nahemoth]

With my 10900K and 3090 I manage to get 60 FPS in SP (decreasing the quality settings to something acceptable), sometimes also in MP but just for dogfighting... so for the moment I will wait, taking into account that I should upgrade the CPU and also the case...

[speed-of-heat]

So… all the current data says the 4090 says that in 4k gaming is where you will get the most performance improvements over a 3090… if you run a g2 you are running 2 4k monitors… this will significantly reduce GPU frame times for VR users, as was shown by @frenzon… in situations where you are CPU bound you will not see any improvement in FPS because of the way VR works.

 

[Harlikwin]

13 minutes ago, speed-of-heat said:

So… all the current data says the 4090 says that in 4k gaming is where you will get the most performance improvements over a 3090… if you run a g2 you are running 2 4k monitors… this will significantly reduce GPU frame times for VR users, as was shown by @frenzon… in situations where you are CPU bound you will not see any improvement in FPS because of the way VR works.

 

Yeah, for me at least in MP, CPU is the issue. In SP with a light mission I can pull nearly 90fps with a 12900k/3090. 

[FoxTwo]

The 5800X3D (and forthcoming 7900/7950X3D) will pull ahead of the 12900/13900k in DCS.

[Supmua]

3 hours ago, FoxTwo said:

The 5800X3D (and forthcoming 7900/7950X3D) will pull ahead of the 12900/13900k in DCS.

That's a pretty strong statement considering the 13900K isn't even out yet.

Not quite the right thread, but the 13900K is no slouch especially at 1% percentile fps besides avg fps.

 

Edited October 15, 2022 by Supmua

[Clogger]

My current rig is a 12900k and 6800XT , if the performance increase was insane in DCS VR I would jump on a 4090, The reality is it wont be until ED sort out the engine to let our CPU's use multicore. For normal gaming at 1440p my rig is already overkill so I just don't see the point in throwing more money at DCS for marginal gains. OMMV of course. 

[Harlikwin]

12 minutes ago, Clogger said:

My current rig is a 12900k and 6800XT , if the performance increase was insane in DCS VR I would jump on a 4090, The reality is it wont be until ED sort out the engine to let our CPU's use multicore. For normal gaming at 1440p my rig is already overkill so I just don't see the point in throwing more money at DCS for marginal gains. OMMV of course. 

Yeah thats the irony/issue right. Until ED actually manages to improve performance to "normal" game levels most of this is gonna be very small incremental improvements.

 

 

[3WA]

3 hours ago, FoxTwo said:

The 5800X3D (and forthcoming 7900/7950X3D) will pull ahead of the 12900/13900k in DCS.

Yeah, waiting to see what the 7950X3D can do compared to Intel 13900k.  That extra cache might make quite the difference.

[Supmua]

So are we discussing 3090 vs 4090 here or is it going to be yet another Intel vs AMD thread?

[Slammin]

I guess because we keep injecting VR into the discussion, things start drifting (even though this is the VR sub).  So, for those that say 3090 to 4090 is not worth it, or that it may not benefit, are probably not using VR.  VR makes my 3090 the bottleneck and I suspect that would still be the case even if I had a lessor CPU.  I am specifically talking DCS too.

[YoYo]

On 10/14/2022 at 1:23 AM, Hammer1-1 said:

The 4090 is claiming a TDP of a minimum of 450, and some manufacturers are absolutely recommending a minimum of 1000w.

I know ts probably been published here, but heres a Toms Hardware link recommending them.

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/1200w-power-requirement-rtx-4090

 

About this.... Im surprised but I know few people who bought RTX 4090 and they was used VR (but not overlocked versions and they dont use any overlock of CPU as well) and no any issues with 850W PSU + 4090 ! Im thinking to buy 4090 with 1250W PSU but this tests surprised me.

21 hours ago, Willdass said:

Got my hands on a 4090 Suprim X, should be arriving today! Think its going to be a big improvement over my 3080!

And ???

Edited October 15, 2022 by YoYo

[Nahemoth]

hace 6 horas, Supmua dijo:

So are we discussing 3090 vs 4090 here or is it going to be yet another Intel vs AMD thread?

It is going to be very interesting... 

[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

Why not VR? Obvious right? Most tests out there are in 2D, and every one of them say it is significantly better than 3090 in 4K, I can bet it is very likely to be so in VR.

We need hard numbers, not wild guesses.

[dureiken]

HI

I think this post is all we need :

4090 vs 3090 is a really good improvment, but as we are often cpu binded (in MP or Liberation) , it's useless in term of FPS, but could bring some SS or visual quality or HMD with bigger resolution

[speed-of-heat]

I think useless over states it, in many scenarios I am GPU bound in VR even on simple missions hence not getting 90 fps everywhere, so a 4090 helps… and does so considerably. 
 

1 hour ago, YoYo said:

About this.... Im surprised but I know few people who bought RTX 4090 and they was used VR (but not overlocked versions and they dont use any overlock of CPU as well) and no any issues with 850W PSU + 4090 ! Im thinking to buy 4090 with 1250W PSU but this tests surprised me.

And ???

 

I overclock my cpu and GPU (though I also undervolt, so it likely evens out for the GPU) and I still have plenty of headroom with my 850w supply… 

[SkateZilla]

with an RTX4090 your bottleneck will be your PSU, More specifically the 12V Rails.

[BigBANGtheory]

well we have some early numbers in and there is a sizable jump in VR

personally, I would still advise waiting for RDNA3 because once you strip away all the Nvidia propriety tech (which DCS doesn't use anyway) their top card is possibly faster and cheaper. Nov 3rd is only 2.5weeks away now and I'm sure Nvidia is desperately trying to restock the 4090 whilst they hold an uncontested lead in the GPU market.