investigating Large performance drop in VR after updating to 2.8

[darkman222]

11 hours ago, freehand said:

The VR user's in dcs is about %10 so we are at the back of the que I am afraid.

Dont want to start a discussion about it here. But the 10% or maybe more percent of VR users are enthousiasts, willing to purchase a lot of DLC and hardware as long as DCS runs smoothly. I personally own at least a total amount of DCS modules of a value of more  than 1000$. I dont think a casual 2D flat screen keyboard player spends that much on DCS already.

As I already said. I dont care about performance loss in "high" presets. As long as I can be sure that my hardware will still keep performing on "low" settings.

Edited November 4, 2022 by darkman222

[freehand]

36 minutes ago, darkman222 said:

Dont want to start a discussion about it here. But the 10% or maybe more percent of VR users are enthousiasts, willing to purchase a lot of DLC and hardware as long as DCS runs smoothly. I personally own at least a total amount of DCS modules of a value of more  than 1000$. I dont think a casual 2D flat screen keyboard player spends that much on DCS already.

As I already said. I dont care about performance loss in "high" presets. As long as I can be sure that my hardware will still keep performing on "low" settings.

 

Then I suggest you go back to stable build.

[darkman222]

1 hour ago, freehand said:

Then I suggest you go back to stable build.

Yeah, some servers run Stable but most of them run open beta and my squad runs open beta servers too. But thats not the discussion here. Lets stay on topic.

[YoYo]

I think not only in VR, but in VR ii is more visible than on 2D screen (VR is very sensitive to any FPS downgrade).

[darkman222]

I was guessing so too. But although the CPU frame time was rising the gpu frame time was rising independently. You can see in my testing Screenshots that the gpu was not bottlenecked by the CPU. There is also something that drove up the gpu demands.

[Jarmak]

6 hours ago, freehand said:

Then I suggest you go back to stable build.

Go back to stable is dumb, that's not what the multiplayer community is built on, that's not the community ED has fostered. A system's purpose is what it does, and labeling it open beta does not change the fact the community they have built runs the open beta as the de facto standard and expects a bare level of basic operability out of it.  

[Cab]

5 minutes ago, Jarmak said:

Go back to stable is dumb, that's not what the multiplayer community is built on, that's not the community ED has fostered. A system's purpose is what it does, and labeling it open beta does not change the fact the community they have built runs the open beta as the de facto standard and expects a bare level of basic operability out of it.  

Wrong. The facts are:

1. It is called "Open Beta".

2. ED has always been very clear about the purpose of Open Beta.

3. Everyone knows what "Open Beta" means.

4 YET...some people keep insisting Open Beta MUST be something it was never intended to be.

Quite frankly, this is getting tiring. 

 

Personally, I think everyone should have to check a box acknowledging an understanding of the purpose of an Open Beta release before they can download.

[some1]

Well, ED themselves already renamed this whole forum to DCS 2.8, and the newsletter last week proclaimed 2.8 was released, not even mentioning the beta anywhere.

Seems a clear message to me. https://forum.dcs.world/topic/304804-official-news-2022/?do=findComment&comment=5073724

Anyway, the problem hasn't been fully resolved yet, let's hope it will be fixed before beta branch gets copied to stable. 

Edited November 4, 2022 by some1

[WipeUout]

2 hours ago, Cab said:

1. It is called "Open Beta".

2. ED has always been very clear about the purpose of Open Beta.

3. Everyone knows what "Open Beta" means.

4 YET...some people keep insisting Open Beta MUST be something it was never intended to be.

All very true.  Seems that people are opting for OB in order to get early access to new features and modules forgetting that OB is a testing and bug identifying vehicle before it goes to stable.

Nevertheless, the reaction to 2.8 would have been very different if there had been some warning about the performance drop in VR.  Sharing information and transparency always pay off in the long run.

 

[Jarmak]

2 hours ago, Cab said:

Wrong. The facts are:

1. It is called "Open Beta".

2. ED has always been very clear about the purpose of Open Beta.

3. Everyone knows what "Open Beta" means.

4 YET...some people keep insisting Open Beta MUST be something it was never intended to be.

Quite frankly, this is getting tiring. 

 

Personally, I think everyone should have to check a box acknowledging an understanding of the purpose of an Open Beta release before they can download.

So I'm guessing the whole the purpose of a system is what it does bit went right over your head. 

ED focuses it's marketing and community building on the open beta, it doesn't matter if they labeled it "super experimental don't ever try this unless you're ready to suffer" it is the version the entire community is based around. 

You don't hype up the beta branch and focus all your outreach efforts on it then try to hide behind it's a beta, give me a break. You can't functionally play multiplayer without being on open beta. 

[Cab]

1 hour ago, Jarmak said:

So I'm guessing the whole the purpose of a system is what it does bit went right over your head. 

ED focuses it's marketing and community building on the open beta, it doesn't matter if they labeled it "super experimental don't ever try this unless you're ready to suffer" it is the version the entire community is based around. 

You don't hype up the beta branch and focus all your outreach efforts on it then try to hide behind it's a beta, give me a break. You can't functionally play multiplayer without being on open beta. 

Yep, keep telling yourself that.

And I challenge you to post any comment from ED where they encourage what you claim. People flock to Open Beta because they want the newest stuff RIGHT NOW, not because ED encourages them to. 

And to be clear, I am on Open Beta, too. Because I want the newest stuff RIGHT NOW.

 

1 hour ago, Jarmak said:

So I'm guessing the whole the purpose of a system is what it does bit went right over your head. 

On the contrary, I gave it the attention it deserved.

[=37.Sqn= Mjugen]

Can someone remove Cab from spamming and hijacking topic ?

[Cab]

Go back and look, bud. I just replied to someone's post. 

[Convexrook]

4 hours ago, Cab said:

Go back and look, bud. I just replied to someone's post. 

PICK a Server and go hash it out in a DOGFIGHT!!!

Edited November 5, 2022 by Convexrook

[Cab]

5 hours ago, Convexrook said:

PICK a Server and go hash it out in a DOGFIGHT!!!

 

 

  

Edited November 5, 2022 by Cab

[BIGNEWY]

People appreciate you are passionate, but keep it friendly ( rules are at the top of the forum ).

As mentioned in the newsletter we are looking into the VR performance dip some have seen, it maybe related to the new features and clouds moving, it maybe something else. It is not 100% clear yet. 

My performance on my rig has not changed, I am seeing no performance issues which makes it harder for me to investigate it. 

I would suggest if you want help to post as much info as possible
DXDIAG
DCS.log
Screenshots of GPU control panel settings
VR headset settings and res. 

we need data to check to try to figure it out, people who are posting that their performance has dropped but giving no detail isnt very helpful. 

Also to add. 

Like it or not open beta is and always will be a public test version. 

It is where we find and try to resolve the crashes and issues we can not find in closed testing before we push a build to stable. 

DCS will always work this way, we are constantly evolving and updating, for more than a decade now and we will continue to update and bring new features to you all. 

thanks

[exil]

50 minutes ago, BIGNEWY said:

People appreciate you are passionate, but keep it friendly ( rules are at the top of the forum ).

As mentioned in the newsletter we are looking into the VR performance dip some have seen, it maybe related to the new features and clouds moving, it maybe something else. It is not 100% clear yet. 

My performance on my rig has not changed, I am seeing no performance issues which makes it harder for me to investigate it. 

I would suggest if you want help to post as much info as possible
DXDIAG
DCS.log
Screenshots of GPU control panel settings
VR headset settings and res. 

we need data to check to try to figure it out, people who are posting that their performance has dropped but giving no detail isnt very helpful. 

Also to add. 

Like it or not open beta is and always will be a public test version. 

It is where we find and try to resolve the crashes and issues we can not find in closed testing before we push a build to stable. 

DCS will always work this way, we are constantly evolving and updating, for more than a decade now and we will continue to update and bring new features to you all. 

thanks

Thanks!

Maybe this is something worth to investigate, although it's just speculation on my side:

 

 

[durp]

I thought the thread mentioned some clues already? The initial poster also shows it. DCS 2.7 flat shadows are drawn 'flat' without smoothing. 

DCS 2.8 initial release did render all shadows smoothed (more high then medium, compared to the detail, LOW is just a blob underneath objects), regardless of the "flat" setting. 
Which is very taxing on the GPU. People who already had medium/high probably then didn't notice any difference.

DCS 2.8 Hotfix 1, fixed the issue of terrain object shadows drawn in a higher resolution (not drawn flat), but also disabled rendering of shadows using flat on the regular shadow setting.
(That is, there is no shadow rendered underneath aircrafts anymore)

A good starting point would be looking at the shadow rendering part. (the initial post also shows flat vs smooth shadows on the same settings)

 

[YoYo]

4 hours ago, BIGNEWY said:

People appreciate you are passionate, but keep it friendly ( rules are at the top of the forum ).

As mentioned in the newsletter we are looking into the VR performance dip some have seen, it maybe related to the new features and clouds moving, it maybe something else. It is not 100% clear yet. 

My performance on my rig has not changed, I am seeing no performance issues which makes it harder for me to investigate it. 

I would suggest if you want help to post as much info as possible
DXDIAG
DCS.log
Screenshots of GPU control panel settings
VR headset settings and res. 

we need data to check to try to figure it out, people who are posting that their performance has dropped but giving no detail isnt very helpful. 

Also to add. 

Like it or not open beta is and always will be a public test version. 

It is where we find and try to resolve the crashes and issues we can not find in closed testing before we push a build to stable. 

DCS will always work this way, we are constantly evolving and updating, for more than a decade now and we will continue to update and bring new features to you all. 

thanks

Personally I dont think that those informations are necessary. Why? Because nothing has changed in the hardware, since everyone here on 2.7 was ok and after changes in 2.8 the issue appeared. Personally, I only see a change in VR that is diametrical for the worse in DCS (2.8 vs 2.7 Shadows Flat only), in my other titles I fly (MSFS, IL-2) it is ok as it was. No issue on the last time.

Drivers NVidia https://www.nvidia.com/download/driverResults.aspx/194112/en-us/ 526.47

DCS log: https://www.sendspace.com/file/p79ibb

DXDIAG: https://www.sendspace.com/file/ehlkg1

[BIGNEWY]

@YoYocan you try the different terrain shadows options and tell what kind of difference you see between them FPS wise?

[Flappie]

@YoYo I'm starting to wonder if the difference in performance for some users can be explained by the OS they use. I'm also experiencing the FPS drop and my PC is still running Windows 10.

Small poll for those experiencing FPS drops with 2.8: is your PC running W10 or W11?

EDIT: Result so far is 5 W10, 3 W11. Let's say the O.S. version has nothing to do with the performance issue.

Edited November 9, 2022 by Flappie

[PLUTON]

 MrFlappie 

Since 2.8 I went from 61 fps to (between 45/50 fps) and I'm on Windows 10 pro

and this under all the cards

in vr

[PLUTON]

Mr BIGNEWY
with shadows disabled the fps are like 2.7
and with flat shadows I have this loss of fps

[ColinM9991]

41 minutes ago, Flappie said:

@YoYo I'm starting to wonder if the difference in performance for some users can be explained by the OS they use. I'm also experiencing the FPS drop and my PC is still running Windows 10.

Small poll for those experiencing FPS drops with 2.8: is your PC running W10 or W11?

W10

[zildac]

Win11, 4090. Terrain shadows to off = pretty much 2.7 performance except for the increased texture load times. Terrain shadows to flat or default 25fps loss over 2.7.