Tips for airfield landing ?

[bushido]

I have an issue with airfield landing, my plane always end up out of the runway. Usually when the speed reach 80 kt or the like the plane goes crazy and slip right to left and I'm not able to control the bloody things.

I try various method like braking a lot, or gently braking or pumping the brake but the outcome is always the same, my plane in the grass with an half wings in fire...

Is there any tips to manage a proper landing ? Is it better to have stick full forward, neutral, backward ? What is the consensus on how to apply brake ?

Any mysterious receipe I should be aware of ?

I have a Thrustmaster T rudder hardware.

Thanks for any help

[razo+r]

Once you have wheels on the ground, move your throttle a tiny bit and back to idle. This will make sure you go from flight idle to ground idle. That little difference in thrust can make a big difference when it comes to stopping distance.

And when rolling, stick full aft is usually the way to go.

As for brakes, if you have enough length, you let it roll until you need to brake. If it's a short runway, you can start applying full brakes just after touchdown.

[pokeraccio]

Remember also for shore based operation to double check Anti Skid is ON (effective down to 40 Knots ground speed).

Below let's say 80 Knots, aerodynamic control surface become ineffective, so NWS and little gentle rudder input to mantain centerline, be sure to do not engage the HI mode of NWS.

As soon as you are firmly with main wheel gear on the ground use brakes with a smooth but constant progression till you are fully using them when you are approaching taxi speed.

Approaching 40 knots, relax the pressure to avoid skid, and when below 35 Kts start again with more pressure.

You should achieve a good results. (remember @razo+r's important advice about the throttle and flight/ground idle).

 

Edited January 9, 2023 by pokeraccio

[Tusky]

hace 1 hora, pokeraccio dijo:

Remember also for shore based operation to double check Anti Skid is ON (effective down to 40 Knots ground speed).

This might be the problem.

If you takeoff from the carrier, ANTISKID is set to OFF at startup as default while on the ground the opposite is true (ON as default). I don't remember what's the status of the switch if you start in the air but it might be OFF...

Edited January 9, 2023 by Tusky

[BuzzU]

Any chance you're applying nose wheel steering when you lose control?

[Tusky]

hace 31 minutos, BuzzU dijo:

Any chance you're applying nose wheel steering when you lose control?

Nosewheel steering is automatically activated once the F/A-18 is weight-on-wheel at landing and it is the correct method of controlling the aircraft during the landing rollout; there's no deactivation requirement above a certain speed like in the F-16 or other aircraft (see NATOPS 7.3.4). 

A few clues:
- Anti-skid OFF (most probable culprit)
- No correct NWS and braking technique
- Use of airbrake in the crosswind landings

Edited January 9, 2023 by Tusky

[BuzzU]

He could have been putting on Hi steering.

[bushido]

Thanks all for the suggested tips. Anti Skid is definitly On and I do not use Hi NWS on the runway.

Applying stick backward plus the tip to increase the power after wheels touch and then go to idle seems to help, I manage 2 succesfull landing but with a 10000 ft runway so I apply little break, not sure I would be that sucesfull on a short runway.

I also alter my T ruder curvature to make it more like an S, and less sharp, seems to have help as well. I guess I have to practice a bit more on the breaking technique but a least on long runway it's ok now.

Thanks.

[TheFreshPrince]

What's your touchdown speed? Full flaps and speed brake applied? 

[BuzzU]

Good you're working it out.

[bushido]

39 minutes ago, TheFreshPrince said:

What's your touchdown speed? Full flaps and speed brake applied? 

Speed is depending of the loadout, but as far as I can tell I was on speed with the velocity vector in the middle of the E bracket and a more or less 3 degree descent.

For reference on the VFR training mission airfield landing my speed was at 137 kts I think.

For the speed brake I try both case I don't know what is the proper way (with or without speedbrake deployed)

[TheFreshPrince]

On speed landing is good

Raise the speed brake after touchdown, pull the stick back and press the wheel brakes. If you are >33.00 pounds you will need to flare the aircraft before the touchdown, below it's not necessary. You should be able to stop before the end of the runway now

[bushido]

Thanks, I will add the speed brake after touch down.

 

[CBStu]

My brakes are on two buttons so no partial brake possible. When I land, I hit air brake almost immediately. Somewhere I 'think' I saw to stay off brakes until 100k. So I wait until speed drops to use brakes. I pull full up elevator a little after the air brake. I have a twist stick for rudder and nose wheel and that is what I use to correct for any left or right drift. It is kind of touchy so I often give it several little quick short twists rather than a long one. I believe on the landing rollout the twist is actuating rudder only. At some point it starts actuating the nose wheel but I don't know whether it does that below X speed or how it works.

[Wroblowaty]

I have read somewhere, that use of airbrake is not recommended on F/A-18 on landing, as it disturbs the air flow in the vicinity of rudders making them far less effective. And when the speed drops to values when you don't need rudder, than it is small enough that airbrake will not help much. 

[Yurgon]

One thing that helped me with short field landings (or when I'm landing long and once again forget that going around is always an option): Raising the flaps as soon as the wheels are on the ground.

On one hand, flaps generate a lot of drag, which should help slow the jet down. On the other hand, flaps generate a lot of additional lift, which in turn means the wheel brakes will be less efficient. With flaps up at the earliest possible time after touchdown, using the wheelbrakes should give them much more stopping power.

Though to be fair, I can't say with absolute certainty if that really works in DCS or if my landings have just gotten better in parallel to using this technique. Might be worth a try, though.

And it probably goes without saying that go-arounds should no longer be initiated once the flaps are raised.

[jaylw314]

11 hours ago, CBStu said:

My brakes are on two buttons so no partial brake possible. When I land, I hit air brake almost immediately. Somewhere I 'think' I saw to stay off brakes until 100k. So I wait until speed drops to use brakes. I pull full up elevator a little after the air brake. I have a twist stick for rudder and nose wheel and that is what I use to correct for any left or right drift. It is kind of touchy so I often give it several little quick short twists rather than a long one. I believe on the landing rollout the twist is actuating rudder only. At some point it starts actuating the nose wheel but I don't know whether it does that below X speed or how it works.

@Wroblowaty is correct, speedbrake is not recommended.  FULL wheelbrake once wheels are firmly on the ground, you've got anti-skid so take advantage of it.  You can start feeding in back stick to put more weight on the wheels and cause more drag, but two caveats:

1. Don't start pulling back on the stick until AFTER you've started braking for obvious reasons
2. Don't pull back on the stick far enough to catch the stick on the ejection handle 

[Fresh]

Just something that got me the first time I used the pedals: the force was reversed, I mean I had to release the brakes to brake, and brake to not brake.. check that the pilot animation is moving the brake pedals the same as you are. I had to invert the axis signal in the control settings to make it work correctly..

Edited January 11, 2023 by Fresh

[TheFreshPrince]

vor 19 Stunden schrieb jaylw314:

@Wroblowaty is correct, speedbrake is not recommended.  FULL wheelbrake once wheels are firmly on the ground, you've got anti-skid so take advantage of it.  You can start feeding in back stick to put more weight on the wheels and cause more drag, but two caveats:

1. Don't start pulling back on the stick until AFTER you've started braking for obvious reasons
2. Don't pull back on the stick far enough to catch the stick on the ejection handle 

 

Here you can see two Hornets landing, the second one raises the speedbrake immediately after touchdown, the first one doesn't. So it seems to be own preference, but I don't get why it shouldn't be recommended. Full flaps down and pulling back on the stick have the same intention as with the speedbrake: Maximum drag. 

 

Edit: in this video all of them raise the speed brake after touchdown:

 

Edited January 11, 2023 by TheFreshPrince

[jaylw314]

3 hours ago, TheFreshPrince said:

Here you can see two Hornets landing, the second one raises the speedbrake immediately after touchdown, the first one doesn't. So it seems to be own preference, but I don't get why it shouldn't be recommended. Full flaps down and pulling back on the stick have the same intention as with the speedbrake: Maximum drag. 

It's mentioned in the legacy Hornet's flight manual, the speedbrake significantly reduces directional stability and control (especially crosswinds and wet runways).  It's not prohibited or a limitation, though, just a recommendation, so unless you break something, nobody will come after you for using it  

[BuzzU]

Maybe you aren't applying the brakes evenly. That will throw you to one side.

As an experiment. Instead of programming the brakes on an axis for left-right brakes. Program the brakes as a button. Don't use the left-right buttons. Use the brakes on-off press. It won't matter if you program the press on the left or right pedal. Just program it to one pedal. You can use both pedals to stop if you want but only the pedal you programmed will apply the brakes. That way both brakes will be applied evenly.

[Lane]

 

On 1/12/2023 at 1:12 AM, jaylw314 said:

It's mentioned in the legacy Hornet's flight manual, the speedbrake significantly reduces directional stability and control (especially crosswinds and wet runways).  It's not prohibited or a limitation, though, just a recommendation, so unless you break something, nobody will come after you for using it  

The airfield in Meiringen is really short, it even have rectractable arresting gear on both side, similar of what you find on US carrier for emergency mainly. or for the F5. It is completely surrounded by mountains. It use a cavern in the mountain for store equipements, personal and planes.

I never use speadbrake and never get any problem at landing without it. Only do it if i need land on a really small airfield like you have some in the Sirya map ( and normally not intended for operation ). Just brake, release them and reactive them by short hit after wheels touchs the land and then let them do their work fully. 

For sure this is not the most strong brake you can find on jet, but they work totally good for even short airfield.

Edited January 19, 2023 by Lane

[TimRobertsen]

Try landing with the parking-brake activated.

Addionally: Full flaps and trim for 11 degrees AoA, and be as low A/C-weight as possible (under 30k lbs). 

Addionally+: Set the mission/landing in january, lowest possible air temp, and max atmospheric pressure.

Add++: 30kts headwind, and uphill

[fagulha]

What´s your landing weight?

[jaylw314]

1 hour ago, TimRobertsen said:

Try landing with the parking-brake activated.

Aside from being generally not recommended, the parking brake also disables anti-skid, so it will actually take longer to stop.