[DCS: J-8II] More Details of J-8PP and Q&A

[uboats]

Q: What is Peace Pearl Program?

A: In brief, during the 1980s China was unable to develop advanced air-to-air radar or semi-active radar missiles at that time, thus turned to UK, France, Israel and the United States to upgrade the J-8II in terms of fire control and weapons, and eventually selected the U.S. AN/APG-66(V) radar for the modification. In the agreement between the U.S. and China, the U.S. should provide 55 sets of production modifications (50 kits and 5 backup) and 4 prototype sets. The total estimated cost of the contract was $501,754,733, and the contract was finally signed with the U.S. on October 30, 1986. China called it "Project 82", while the U.S. called it the "Peace Pearl Program".

 

Q: How many J-8PP has been produced?

A: In 1987, the Chinese technical support team arrived in the America. The following year, the design work was completed in cooperation with Grumman. On January 20, 1989, China shipped two J-8II, a static test nose and supporting equipment and technical documentation to America. In 1990, the modification of the two J-8II was completed and China provided a revised English flight manual as requested by the U.S. test pilot, and the aircraft was in complete condition. The avionics test and EMC test were completed, and the start-up and test-run was done at Grumman Bethpage Airport. In the same year, the contract was terminated by China. The next year, the U.S. handed over two prototypes and modification packages to China. The two aircraft now reside in Beijing and Shenyang, but the full-size nose now in Kansas, USA.

null

One of the two in Beijing. Note the extra cooling inlets on fuselage for upgraded avionic devices

The other one in Shenyang

 

Q: What kind of info is shown on HUD/HDD? How many HDDs?

A: HUD and HDD should be familiar to everyone. The HUD of J-8PP adopts the F-16A/B style, and a combined glass is added to increase the instantaneous field of view. The HDD is the F-16C/D style, which is located on the right side of the front panel. The HDD is used to monitor system functions, select weapons and modes.

HUD Display

HDD Menu

 

Q: Is RWR domestic or American? Is it easy to use?

A: It's domestic, and similar to SPO-10. It can only be used to distinguish the signal type (search/lock), rough direction, whether the irradiation is approaching or not. Relatively primitive.

 

Q: The J-8II is so similar to the SU-15, is there any connection between the two?

A: The J-8, the predecessor of J-8II, was actually designed by China after imitating MiG-21. The Soviet Union did not provide China with any technical information on SU-15. Part of the technology of J-8II came from MiG-23 and F-4, and its appearance may be similar to the convergent evolution caused by the relatively close ecological niche.

 

Q: Are there any flight characteristics or defects of the J-8II, and are there any changes in the flight characteristics of the J-8PP?

A: The most characteristic feature of J-8II is that it can easily reach the maximum IAS speed and maximum Mach number in level flight (unlike some third-generation aircraft that need to dive). The delta wing also brings a very good stall characteristic, the minimum speed for maneuvering is lower than 200km/h, and the angle of attack can be greater than 30°. The J-8II has speed stability in most situations, but when it decelerates with g-load in supersonic, the aircraft has a slight nose-up characteristic.

Compared with J-8II, J-8PP only has changes in the center of gravity and weight, and some cooling inlets on fuselage have been added. It will not lead to much change to the flight characteristics.

Q: Can you introduce more about the flight control system?

A: The flight control of J-8PP has three-axis automatic stability augmentation system; pitch, roll and course holding; automatic leveling; low altitude automatic pull-up; pitch/bank automatic trimming functions.

 

Q: Is the cockpit in Chinese?

A: Except those upgraded avionic devices and corresponding panels, most are in Chinese. J-8PP uses metric unit. We will provide EN and CN localization for hint of clickable switches.

 

Q: Will it provide visual/performance cockpit for selection like DCS: JF-17?

A: Yes.

 

Q: Can players perform flights beyond the safety margin specified in the manual, such as reproducing the overspeed phenomenon during the J-8II test? 

A: Although the manual stipulates the maximum Mach number 2.2, due to the better thrust characteristics of the turbojet engine at a large Mach number, it is easy to overspeed. The right envelope of the aircraft is mainly limited by aerodynamic stability and aerodynamic heating. You will experience uncontrollable side-slip phenomenon after exceeding M2.35.

 

Q: What weapons can J-8PP carry?

A: Air-to-air weapons include PL-5, PL-8, Aspide/PL-11; Air-to-ground weapons include 250Kg GP bomb, 57mm/90mm rockets. Check below figure for details

 

Q: DCS: J-8II module price?

A: Not as expensive as DCS: JF-17.

 

Q: How's the documentation? Especially for such an aircraft with only two produced (modified).

A: We cannot make anything out of nothing.

 

Q: Does J-8PP have HOTAS?

A: The weapon control system of J-8PP is simplified AN/AWG-27. Therefore, the throttle was also modified to F-15 style.

 

Q: What's the difference between APG-66(V)-PRC-F8 and APG-66(V)?

A: The main detection performance remains the same. Since it's to upgrade J-8II air-to-air capability, most AG modes (SEA1, SEA2, BCN) were removed (Money was definitely one of many reasons).

 

Q: What about datalink?

A: There's one similar to Lazur-M GCI system. But we will not model it in game. The IFF and countermeasure systems of J-8PP will be simplified in game.
 

===================================

If you have any question that was not covered by Q&A, please leave a comment and I will try my best to answer.

Our whole team thank you for your support!

 

 

Edited February 17, 2023 by uboats

[opps]

Thank you for nice Q&A. Looking foward to J-8PP.

Where is radar information shown? On HDD? 

[uboats]

3 minutes ago, opps said:

Thank you for nice Q&A. Looking foward to J-8PP.

Where is radar information shown? On HDD? 

Yes

[Polia]

I love the J-8, I would have liked to be enthusiastic about your project, I have hundreds of hours on JF-17. But sorry, such an American Chiois hybrid is not for me, whatever the reasons for choosing it, moreover it would have been nice to explain the reasons for choosing this hybrid.

[Ogata_Rina]

How much more do we have to pay, to get the Lazur like GCI system?

[PLAAF]

11 minutes ago, goAdA said:

How much more do we have to pay, to get the Lazur like GCI system?

I too prefer to pay extra to get it.

[jojyrocks]

What capacity of fuel tanks/Drop tanks did it carry, the options? 

 

The cannon armament? Hope it has these to have some emergency self defence weapons if missiles miss...

Edited February 17, 2023 by jojyrocks

[Silver_Dragon]

2 minutes ago, jojyrocks said:

What capacity of fuel tanks/Drop tanks did it carry, the options? 

2x 800 Liters tanks on external hardpoints and 1x 1400 Liters tank on center hardpoing.

[Fromthedeep]

I would imagine the GCI system is going to be missing for sensitivity reasons.

[Torbernite]

 

How much more do we have to pay, to get the Lazur like GCI system?

I doubt if they can. The GCI datalink reflects the whole warning and interception system and could be still classified now. There are many J-7s in PLAAF and similar system may be still in service.

 

 

 

The cannon armament? Hope it has these to have some emergency self defence weapons if missiles miss...

 

A twin barrel 23 cannon in centerline, same one with JF and basically as GSh-23L of MiG-21Bis. I remembered uboats said it has a negative installation angle like JF.

It could be hard to use, but still easier for us than in reality. This gun is tiring to reload on the ground, for the gun is installed behind the nose gear and need to be dismounted to reload (the ammo box can't be reached before dismounting the cannon) and after being re-mounted it needs re-calibration, in which the nose gear has to be retracted and the nose supported by other equipment.

Also @uboats could you confirm the JF's cannon is 23-2 or 23-3? The manual said 23-2 but I found 23-2 is a single barrel cannon and the copy of GSh-23L is 23-3.

[Wissam24]

1 hour ago, Polia said:

I love the J-8, I would have liked to be enthusiastic about your project, I have hundreds of hours on JF-17. But sorry, such an American Chiois hybrid is not for me, whatever the reasons for choosing it, moreover it would have been nice to explain the reasons for choosing this hybrid.

Fully agreed. reading this line:
"HUD and HDD should be familiar to everyone. The HUD of J-8PP adopts the F-16A/B style, and a combined glass is added to increase the instantaneous field of view. The HDD is the F-16C/D style, which is located on the right side of the front panel. "

I've lost interest in what would've been a likely surefire buy, as someone who laps up non-Western aircraft, if it has been a pure Chinese version. If I wanted to fly an F-16, I'd buy the F-16 module. 

Edited February 17, 2023 by Wissam24

[Torbernite]

On the HDD figure, what's the CCIL mode?

[Lurker]

What are the navigation capabilites of this airplane? I assume that since it's primary role was as an interceptor it was directed by ground based GCI to and from it's base to a target location, patrol area etc. 

How will this be simulated in the game? 

Edited February 17, 2023 by Lurker

[PLAAF]

Wait, where is the control for chaff and flare? They are not located on the throttle?

[Ironwulf]

Looking forward to seeing this module, thanks uboats

[Skarp]

39 minutes ago, Ironwulf said:

Looking forward to seeing this module, thanks uboats

Is there a reason why you won’t be modeling the Lazur type system. I assume it would be critical to its intercept role.

[WinterH]

Looking forward to flying it!

[YoYo]

6 hours ago, uboats said:

Q: What is Peace Pearl Program?

A: In brief, during the 1980s China was unable to develop advanced air-to-air radar or semi-active radar missiles at that time, thus turned to UK, France, Israel and the United States to upgrade the J-8II in terms of fire control and weapons, and eventually selected the U.S. AN/APG-66(V) radar for the modification. In the agreement between the U.S. and China, the U.S. should provide 55 sets of production modifications (50 kits and 5 backup) and 4 prototype sets. The total estimated cost of the contract was $501,754,733, and the contract was finally signed with the U.S. on October 30, 1986. China called it "Project 82", while the U.S. called it the "Peace Pearl Program".

 

Q: How many J-8PP has been produced?

A: In 1987, the Chinese technical support team arrived in the America. The following year, the design work was completed in cooperation with Grumman. On January 20, 1989, China shipped two J-8II, a static test nose and supporting equipment and technical documentation to America. In 1990, the modification of the two J-8II was completed and China provided a revised English flight manual as requested by the U.S. test pilot, and the aircraft was in complete condition. The avionics test and EMC test were completed, and the start-up and test-run was done at Grumman Bethpage Airport. In the same year, the contract was terminated by China. The next year, the U.S. handed over two prototypes and modification packages to China. The two aircraft now reside in Beijing and Shenyang, but the full-size nose now in Kansas, USA.

null

One of the two in Beijing. Note the extra cooling inlets on fuselage for upgraded avionic devices

The other one in Shenyang

 

Q: What kind of info is shown on HUD/HDD? How many HDDs?

A: HUD and HDD should be familiar to everyone. The HUD of J-8PP adopts the F-16A/B style, and a combined glass is added to increase the instantaneous field of view. The HDD is the F-16C/D style, which is located on the right side of the front panel. The HDD is used to monitor system functions, select weapons and modes.

HUD Display

HDD Menu

 

Q: Is RWR domestic or American? Is it easy to use?

A: It's domestic, and similar to SPO-10. It can only be used to distinguish the signal type (search/lock), rough direction, whether the irradiation is approaching or not. Relatively primitive.

 

Q: The J-8II is so similar to the SU-15, is there any connection between the two?

A: The J-8, the predecessor of J-8II, was actually designed by China after imitating MiG-21. The Soviet Union did not provide China with any technical information on SU-15. Part of the technology of J-8II came from MiG-23 and F-4, and its appearance may be similar to the convergent evolution caused by the relatively close ecological niche.

 

Q: Are there any flight characteristics or defects of the J-8II, and are there any changes in the flight characteristics of the J-8PP?

A: The most characteristic feature of J-8II is that it can easily reach the maximum IAS speed and maximum Mach number in level flight (unlike some third-generation aircraft that need to dive). The delta wing also brings a very good stall characteristic, the minimum speed for maneuvering is lower than 200km/h, and the angle of attack can be greater than 30°. The J-8II has speed stability in most situations, but when it decelerates with g-load in supersonic, the aircraft has a slight nose-up characteristic.

Compared with J-8II, J-8PP only has changes in the center of gravity and weight, and some cooling inlets on fuselage have been added. It will not lead to much change to the flight characteristics.

Q: Can you introduce more about the flight control system?

A: The flight control of J-8PP has three-axis automatic stability augmentation system; pitch, roll and course holding; automatic leveling; low altitude automatic pull-up; pitch/bank automatic trimming functions.

 

Q: Is the cockpit in Chinese?

A: Except those upgraded avionic devices and corresponding panels, most are in Chinese. J-8PP uses metric unit. We will provide EN and CN localization for hint of clickable switches.

 

Q: Will it provide visual/performance cockpit for selection like DCS: JF-17?

A: Yes.

 

Q: Can players perform flights beyond the safety margin specified in the manual, such as reproducing the overspeed phenomenon during the J-8II test? 

A: Although the manual stipulates the maximum Mach number 2.2, due to the better thrust characteristics of the turbojet engine at a large Mach number, it is easy to overspeed. The right envelope of the aircraft is mainly limited by aerodynamic stability and aerodynamic heating. You will experience uncontrollable side-slip phenomenon after exceeding M2.35.

 

Q: What weapons can J-8PP carry?

A: Air-to-air weapons include PL-5, PL-8, Aspide/PL-11; Air-to-ground weapons include 250Kg GP bomb, 57mm/90mm rockets. Check below figure for details

 

Q: DCS: J-8II module price?

A: Not as expensive as DCS: JF-17.

 

Q: How's the documentation? Especially for such an aircraft with only two produced (modified).

A: We cannot make anything out of nothing.

 

Q: Does J-8PP have HOTAS?

A: The weapon control system of J-8PP is simplified AN/AWG-27. Therefore, the throttle was also modified to F-15 style.

 

Q: What's the difference between APG-66(V)-PRC-F8 and APG-66(V)?

A: The main detection performance remains the same. Since it's to upgrade J-8II air-to-air capability, most AG modes (SEA1, SEA2, BCN) were removed (Money was definitely one of many reasons).

 

Q: What about datalink?

A: There's one similar to Lazur-M GCI system. But we will not model it in game. The IFF and countermeasure systems of J-8PP will be simplified in game.
 

===================================

If you have any question that was not covered by Q&A, please leave a comment and I will try my best to answer.

Our whole team thank you for your support!

 

 

 

Dust and rust included too? 

Reason of yours pictures  (joking). Perhaps no better pictures because from what I heard that particular this version wasnt in service and ended up with just 2 prototypes.

Of course, I'm going in anyway, and I wish you a good job. I consider the JF-17 to be a well-made module, so I will buy the J-8PP, of course even if it takes a few years. Good luck! 

Edited February 17, 2023 by YoYo

[gzj3401]

Fantastic Deka! You guys are my hero! Cant wait to pre-order!

[Lunatica]

1 hour ago, Lurker said:

What are the navigation capabilites of this airplane? I assume that since it's primary role was as an interceptor it was directed by ground based GCI to and from it's base to a target location, patrol area etc. 

How will this be simulated in the game? 

 

LN-39 Inertial Navigation System

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

6 hours ago, goAdA said:

How much more do we have to pay, to get the Lazur like GCI system?

Might be talking out my exhaust here, but that might be up to ED to integrate into DCS as a platform. GCI isn't at all modeled in DCS, at least in a manner that a system like Lazur would utilize.

[Schmidtfire]

13 minutes ago, MiG21bisFishbedL said:

GCI isn't at all modeled in DCS, at least in a manner that a system like Lazur would utilize.

Have you tried the Mirage-2000C? It has a working GCI system.

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

9 minutes ago, Schmidtfire said:

Have you tried the Mirage-2000C? It has a working GCI system.

Hence the caution I offered about talking out my rear, good to know!

Edited February 17, 2023 by MiG21bisFishbedL

[Krippz]

Thanks for the Q&A. Looking forward to the module.

Edited February 17, 2023 by Krippz

[LowRider88]

Thanks UBoats!  You said you would provide Q and A and you did.  Deka always delivers