waiting for resolution RAZBAM Situation Post Archive (will be deleted)

[AerialTeddy]

On 4/29/2024 at 4:56 PM, Rudel_chw said:

I agree, and I'm not saying that ED is on the wrong side ... but I did purchase the affected Modules on THEIR store, so they do have a responsibility on this issue.

I understand you now. Thanks for your explanation

[Gizmo03]

vor 43 Minuten schrieb nessuno0505:

That's not totally true to be honest: there's falcon bms.

Yes you are right - that's a good game and i have a lot of respect for the developers because they do everything for free. Also i have to admit that's it's already about 7 years ago that i played this game. But first of all this game is based on the original AF from 2003 and the graphics got improved but are not even close to what we have in DCS now. The second thing is that i tried the F-18 and when i switched to the A/A Radar i got the same picture on my DDI as in the F-16 - same for other aircrafts - and that's a thing DCS definitly doesn't stand for.

No, sorry. In my opinion you can't compare these two games.

[Gizmo03]

vor einer Stunde schrieb nessuno0505:

This. A real life pilot masters 2-3 airplanes in his whole career.

No need to buy further.

 

Everyone should deal with that their own way. That's totally ok. But for me that's not a good reason not to buy more modules. If you want to stick to 2 or 3 modules for your entire life just because a RL pilot is also limited to this amount of different types and miss all the other good modules out there, go ahead. That's up to you. But i can tell you: i won't. Because for me it's a computergame i'd just like to enjoy during my sparetime and not a job i have to do for living.

[Rudel_chw]

28 minutes ago, Gizmo03 said:

If you want to stick to 2 or 3 modules

actually, I have every module ever released so far, including the mb339 which i purchased  on the sale just prior to the RB debacle  

[freehand]

I have most because I like shiny new toys also I am always looking for THE one but end up going back to the F18 lol.

[eFirehawk]

8 minutes ago, freehand said:

I have most because I like shiny new toys also I am always looking for THE one but end up going back to the F18 lol.

In my case the SE was always my dream module, but the high likelihood of it becoming abandonware now completely killed my joy, so I am flying the Hornet instead too - mainly due to the quality of the available campaigns... But the Hornet itself feels worse than the SE in just about every single way to me. What a bummer...

Edited May 2, 2024 by eFirehawk

[Czar66]

10 minutes ago, freehand said:

I have most because I like shiny new toys also I am always looking for THE one but end up going back to the F18 lol.

Outside of how lovely the Hornet is (I love it so much too :)) There will never be THE one, as long as the modules are this rich in details to their real capabilities. The key sauce is limitation. They are are limited in certain ways, making each of them a different flavor.

To be honest, one can play DCS endlessly with 1 to 3 aircraft modules. They are more like a tool for immerse yourself in air combat tactics (A-G and A-A).

The thing I'm most interested today, heavily influenced by the ED/RB event, is terrain maps. In special the Orbx Kola map. Outside of that: Heatblur aircraft and nothing else.

I have purchased the SE straight from the ED store and the module is in serious need for patches, especially the TPOD functions. Having it stalled, for me, is motivation enough to stall any purchase from both parties until the problem is resolved.

Edited May 2, 2024 by Czar66

[Gizmo03]

vor 52 Minuten schrieb Rudel_chw:

actually, I have every module ever released so far, including the mb339 which i purchased  on the sale just prior to the RB debacle  

Me too except the Mosquito, the I-16 and the CE. And a lot of them are just there to be used twice or three times a year. But when i use them, i enjoy it. What i mean is i don‘t decide whether i buy a new module or not based on the amount of different types an average pilot flies during his career.

In other words: just because a RL pilot is limited to a certain amount of types during his career doesn‘t mean that i have to limit myself too. If i like it, i buy it - and then i enjoy it. It has nothing to do with anything what happens in real life. That‘s the big advatage a PC game has. We play with it because we can. And appart from everyones financial situation and / or amount of sparetime, there is no other restriction

But as i already said: everyone has do decide by himself

Edited May 2, 2024 by Gizmo03

[rfxcasey]

On 4/29/2024 at 10:40 AM, AerialTeddy said:

Why is it up to ED to resolve the issue or else you'd boycott ED? This is a RAZBAM AND ED issue and there's no verdict on if ED is on the wrong side. As far as many can see, ED has played by the book.

Fact of the matter is, it's Eagle Dynamics' ecosystem and they allowed this scenario to occur which should have never been the case. ED should have a rock solid contingency plan to protect their customers and fulfill their obligations. Perhaps a legally contracted obligation or option to buy the rights to Razbam products upon the partnership resolution or full access to the source code to at least prevent future DCS world updates from breaking RB modules if not develop them further. In truth, there may be something in place already but all we can do is speculate.

[AdrianL]

5 minutes ago, rfxcasey said:

but all we can do is speculate

And good option might be for everyone to stop speculating and wait for a statement from ED / Razbam. Because people tend to use speculation to drive their confirmation bias.

Sure they hard at work dealing with the issue. Once a statement is made, we will either be happy or (sad/angry/furious/enraged/etc)

[rfxcasey]

5 minutes ago, AdrianL said:

And good option might be for everyone to stop speculating and wait for a statement from ED / Razbam. Because people tend to use speculation to drive their confirmation bias.

Sure they hard at work dealing with the issue. Once a statement is made, we will either be happy or (sad/angry/furious/enraged/etc)

The problem is ED is still selling these RB modules as if nothing is afoot. There should at least be a notification to potential new purchasers of the current uncertainty of future support. The statements of ED on the issue so far are inadequate in my opinion without at least posting a disclaimer.

[primus_TR]

6 hours ago, nessuno0505 said:

That's not totally true to be honest: there's falcon bms.

BMS is an F16 simulator, unless one enjoys flying a Mig29 with an F16 cockpit. So, DCS can do most what BMS can do, but not vice versa.  

[MAXsenna]

The problem is ED is still selling these RB modules as if nothing is afoot. There should at least be a notification to potential new purchasers of the current uncertainty of future support. The statements of ED on the issue so far are inadequate in my opinion without at least posting a disclaimer.

Maybe they know something you don't yet?

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

[Mad Dog 762]

I guess we'll see tomorrow if there is anything in this patch for the RazBam modules.  And from HeatBlur as well.  

[rfxcasey]

2 hours ago, MAXsenna said:

Maybe they know something you don't yet?

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk
 

Not sure what this has to do with my statement? ED has given no assurance that these modules will be updated in the future. What IS known is that several RB developers have publicly stated they're quitting the project and one update cycle has already been missed. If they (ED) "know something" and can't tell us, they need to confirm future support if nothing else, which they have not. Otherwise, good business practice would be to place a disclaimer on their RB products to show their "commitment" to their customers, it's common sense and common decency. Surely that's not too difficult to wrap one's mind around.

Edited May 2, 2024 by rfxcasey

[nessuno0505]

10 ore fa, Gizmo03 ha scritto:

Everyone should deal with that their own way. That's totally ok. But for me that's not a good reason not to buy more modules. If you want to stick to 2 or 3 modules for your entire life just because a RL pilot is also limited to this amount of different types and miss all the other good modules out there, go ahead. That's up to you. But i can tell you: i won't. Because for me it's a computergame i'd just like to enjoy during my sparetime and not a job i have to do for living.

I agree with you, dcs is a game and it's fun to try different modules even if you do not master them as irl pilots do. But I already have enough modules to try, study and get better at flying them, so I can enjoy myself even if I wait and see where the whole dcs thing goes before putting other money, no need to hurry, moreover in these moonlights. I hope things will get sorted and I can go back to throw my money as soon as possible.

Edited May 2, 2024 by nessuno0505

[nessuno0505]

5 ore fa, primus_TR ha scritto:

BMS is an F16 simulator, unless one enjoys flying a Mig29 with an F16 cockpit. So, DCS can do most what BMS can do, but not vice versa.  

BMS is a f-16 (almost) only simulator, so it can't do some things that dcs does. But bms can do dynamic campaign, proper simulated atc and other stuff dcs can't do (yet?). We can play and enjoy both of course, but the hypothetical dcs death (in which I do not believe, just to be clear) wouldn't be the end of modern mil sim.

[Silver_Dragon]

13 minutes ago, nessuno0505 said:

BMS is a f-16 (almost) only simulator, so it can't do some things that dcs does. But bms can do dynamic campaign, proper simulated atc and other stuff dcs can't do (yet?). We can play and enjoy both of course, but the hypothetical dcs death (in which I do not believe, just to be clear) wouldn't be the end of modern mil sim.

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Edited May 2, 2024 by Silver_Dragon

[NineLine]

4 hours ago, Mad Dog 762 said:

I guess we'll see tomorrow if there is anything in this patch for the RazBam modules.  And from HeatBlur as well.  

This is a release for a new map, do not expect any updates for anything. It's outside our normal patch window. 

Also, guys, we are trying to go easy on everything in this thread, but BMS is really off-topic, If you want to talk BMS they have their own forums to do so. Thanks.

[giullep]

Today we will see only the ea release of kola map? ( no thanx) and nothing else? Updates, Baltic Dragon Campaign….

[Ignition]

Is ED going to say what will happen with the Razbam products? Any update on the matter?

It has been a month since we didn't receive updates on the modules and the only thing ED said is that Razbam was wrong. They didn't even mention this issue in the newsletter.

I know these things take time but I want to know what will happen with the F-15E, the aircraft was released only 10 months ago.

Edited May 3, 2024 by Ignition

[icemaker]

 My concern is that ED is as guilty as RB in this affair! and i don't care who is really responsible.

Before RB affair appears, i had prepurchased the full Afganistan map and the F4. Ofcourse ED does not offer any refund possibility on pre purchase.

ED continues to sell a module that has high chances to be discontinued, without any information to possible customers!

RazBam has taken us as hostages to force ED make a move, with the results we all know! And they don't care  about us!

So from now i wont buy any new module/map until ED changes his behavior aganist customers, 3d Party devs, and mods devs!

I have a lot of modules bought just to support ED and 3rd parties but now i'm done!
 

[SkateZilla]

Negotiations are ongoing, until otherwise stated, that's the current status.

I would encourage users to not read into the angry rant posts on social media, regardless of who they came from (Current or Former RB employees).

As for disclosing in a Newsletter, No Business actively discloses internal affairs in a product newsletter to customers.

Once ED and RB come to an agreement, regardless of the direction, ED will likely then make an announcement regarding status / future support.

[Gizmo03]

vor 24 Minuten schrieb SkateZilla:

Negotiations are ongoing, until otherwise stated, that's the current status.

I would encourage users to not read into the angry rant posts on social media, regardless of who they came from (Current or Former RB employees).

As for disclosing in a Newsletter, No Business actively discloses internal affairs in a product newsletter to customers.

Once ED and RB come to an agreement, regardless of the direction, ED will likely then make an announcement regarding status / future support.

Thank you

[bfr]

2 hours ago, icemaker said:

 My concern is that ED is as guilty as RB in this affair! and i don't care who is really responsible.

Before RB affair appears, i had prepurchased the full Afganistan map and the F4. Ofcourse ED does not offer any refund possibility on pre purchase.

ED continues to sell a module that has high chances to be discontinued, without any information to possible customers!

RazBam has taken us as hostages to force ED make a move, with the results we all know! And they don't care  about us!

So from now i wont buy any new module/map until ED changes his behavior aganist customers, 3d Party devs, and mods devs!

I have a lot of modules bought just to support ED and 3rd parties but now i'm done!
 

99% sure that at the time of the official 'delayed until end of May' announcement that Heatblur said people could now refund Phantom pre-orders if they wanted (and without penalty as they'd be able to still get the same price if they then re-bought it once it actually released)