waiting for resolution RAZBAM Situation Post Archive (will be deleted)

[Hammer1-1]

43 minutes ago, LordOrion said:

This is why one shouldn't buy DCS stuff on Steam.

I'm sorry for you mate .

 

thats actually not a bad thing TBH. if you buy a lot of things on Steam that have less than 2 hours on the overall use, its still refundable. Now that Ive noticed that, I have PG, AV-8B and the F-18 on steam that Ive never used that I have in the ED shop that I can probably get rid of. Ill have to look into that...it sucks because I cant even gift them to anyone.

Edited May 31, 2024 by Hammer1-1

[BigBorner]

3 hours ago, Czar66 said:

For the SE or for a side project/side gig?

SE. 
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Gunnar81]

2 hours ago, Airbusjoerg said:

It's not just “not acceptable”, the whole situation and communication is shockingly unprofessional.

The least they should do is to remove the modules from the stores until this is resolved. They sell stuff that nobody knows whether it will still be usable in a month's time at the moment.

They can be happy that this is going so quietly. I've seen massive sh..storms for much less on the internet.

 

I wouldn't call it shocking at all. Companies of all sorts have disagreements and breakdowns everyday yet the world keeps spinning. It sucks as a lot of people have made DCS their main hobby but quite frankly its even more shocking that DCS has made it 15 years in its current format without totally crumbling. There is not many software, especially game developers that can claim that longevity. Expect there to be a few bumps in the road if you want to stay on this ride.

[giullep]

How long had you owned the eagle ?

From the day of the release


Inviato dal mio iPhone utilizzando Tapatalk

[VpR81]

1 hour ago, LordOrion said:

This is why one shouldn't buy DCS stuff on Steam.

On the other hand, DCS on Steam keeps working even while the ED login servers are down as DRM is done via Steam and not via ED. I have several games on Steam that still work perfectly, even while these are removed from the Steam shop and the developer is bancrupt for years now. Can still install and play them without issues. DCS (Singleplayer) on Steam is not dependant on ED staying alive, wich ist the biggest advantage over standalone. Has always been a theoretical advantage, but given the current situation it´s getting less theoretical i´d say. 

1 hour ago, Hammer1-1 said:

thats actually not a bad thing TBH. if you buy a lot of things on Steam that have less than 2 hours on the overall use, its still refundable. Now that Ive noticed that, I have PG, AV-8B and the F-18 on steam that Ive never used that I have in the ED shop that I can probably get rid of. Ill have to look into that

No you can´t. Steam refund requirements say less than 2 hours of usage and less than 2 weeks after purchase. Sorry mate...

[SkateZilla]

4 hours ago, Airbusjoerg said:

It's not just “not acceptable”, the whole situation and communication is shockingly unprofessional.

The least they should do is to remove the modules from the stores until this is resolved. They sell stuff that nobody knows whether it will still be usable in a month's time at the moment.

They can be happy that this is going so quietly. I've seen massive sh..storms for much less on the internet.

 

By that argument,
MS and Steam should remove a lot of listings because the developer and publishers are gone.
They also shouldn't be listing things like Falcon4.0, because the build they are hosting was a grossly incomplete build prior to the service packs.

If you Buy M2K or F-15E, they work on the builds that are still available, future updates may break modules in an unsupported state, however, updates are optional, if/when that time comes.

There is also the stipulation regarding declaration of early Early Access, as well as EULA.

 

Edited June 1, 2024 by SkateZilla

[AndyJWest]

'Updates are optional'. Indeed. So are future purchases. Which as far as I'm concerned are unlikely to be forthcoming if content I have already purchased ceases to be updated. I'm not the slightest bit interested in maintaining multiple copies of DCS just to keep content I've already paid for functional. And how the heck would that work in multiplayer?

Edited June 1, 2024 by AndyJWest

[SkateZilla]

2 minutes ago, AndyJWest said:

'Updates are optional'. Indeed. So are future purchases. Which as far as I'm concerned are unlikely to be forthcoming if content I have already purchased ceases to be updated. I'm not the slightest bit interested in maintaining multiple copies of DCS just to keep content I've already paid for functional. And how the heck would that work in multiplayer?

 

Look, I'm a consumer like everyone else, so I'm not on any side's other than my own, which is the side of using the F-15E for the considerable future

As for MP, it wouldn't work.

[Hammer1-1]

3 hours ago, VpR81 said:

On the other hand, DCS on Steam keeps working even while the ED login servers are down as DRM is done via Steam and not via ED. I have several games on Steam that still work perfectly, even while these are removed from the Steam shop and the developer is bancrupt for years now. Can still install and play them without issues. DCS (Singleplayer) on Steam is not dependant on ED staying alive, wich ist the biggest advantage over standalone. Has always been a theoretical advantage, but given the current situation it´s getting less theoretical i´d say. 

No you can´t. Steam refund requirements say less than 2 hours of usage and less than 2 weeks after purchase. Sorry mate...

lol...oh well, worth a shot.

[Airbusjoerg]

3 hours ago, SkateZilla said:

By that argument,
MS and Steam should remove a lot of listings because the developer and publishers are gone.
They also shouldn't be listing things like Falcon4.0, because the build they are hosting was a grossly incomplete build prior to the service packs.….
There is also the stipulation regarding declaration of early Early Access, as well as EULA.

I don’t know. I feel there is a difference between this new, full priced product and a product which simply reaches EOL after a long time.

I know, nowadays the label „early access“ is used to get away with everything and there is always an EULA so legally everything may be alright - but as a company you could think about customer satisfaction, customer loyalty and customer confidence as well.

[Airbusjoerg]

7 hours ago, Gunnar81 said:

I wouldn't call it shocking at all. Companies of all sorts have disagreements and breakdowns everyday yet the world keeps spinning. It sucks as a lot of people have made DCS their main hobby but quite frankly its even more shocking that DCS has made it 15 years in its current format without totally crumbling. There is not many software, especially game developers that can claim that longevity. Expect there to be a few bumps in the road if you want to stay on this ride.

„Shocking“ was not related to the dispute / disagreement with a business partner which can and will happen indeed but to the way of communication / non-communication and that a part was discussed publicly.

Edited June 1, 2024 by Airbusjoerg

[DN308]

Some use to say that we paid for early access and that exactly what we had. Sure.

But when I pay for a new car, she’s in early access too when I give my money to the seller, not the manufacturer.

If the seller wants me to be happy with a non finished car différent of the retailers, is there a change that I should have to complain to the manufacturer or the seller ? And don’t you think I would lose all my confidence in the seller for good?

[Checkmate]

What is our choice most modules are released as Early Access. When we buy we are putting our faith in the company that they will finish the product. The lifecycle for development is years. Since we are taking the risk by buying a module not completed, I believe that the least a company can do is commuicate their intentions. The absence of information with the intent to mislead is still a lie.  I have to believe that at this point both companies know what is going on and since we bought this product on a promise the least they can do is communicate thier intentions so that we can make an informed decision. 

[Guille H. Mono]

On 5/22/2024 at 9:02 PM, JumpinK said:

Some of you guys here on the forums seem to be well trained to always see the worst scenario possible...

Is pessimism en vouge again?!

You just choose the wrong person for your statement. It is funny that you did with all the people around spreading the wildest unfounded claims.

If you see any other of my post you would notice quickly but I guess it was too much for you and your need to be the kind of person you are complaining about.

[upyr1]

On 5/29/2024 at 4:47 PM, Majinbot said:

An f-15e completed by Heatblur, specialized in two-seaters, a dream...

Depending on your point of view that would be the best and second best possible outcome. Best, as I think the F-15E would benefit greatly from the inclusion of Jester and Iceman, second best becuse it means the Razbam situation didn't get settled. 

[draconus]

5 hours ago, Airbusjoerg said:

I feel there is a difference between this new, full priced product and a product which simply reaches EOL after a long time.

If you mean SE it's still offered with EA discount.

On 5/29/2024 at 11:47 PM, Majinbot said:

An f-15e completed by Heatblur, specialized in two-seaters, a dream...

What's so special about HB? Their F-14 is not updated for as long as the SE. That they released shiny new toy doesn't mean they are any good at supporting their older modules, still EA.

[stonewall197922]

15 минут назад, draconus сказал:

If you mean SE it's still offered with EA discount.

What's so special about HB? Their F-14 is not updated for as long as the SE. That they released shiny new toy doesn't mean they are any good at supporting their older modules, still EA.

At least f-14 more feature complete than f-15e. currently  many F-15e  features, system and weapons doesn`t work or not implemented yet. And there`s chances never will.

Edited June 1, 2024 by stonewall197922

[draconus]

And why would they refund or stop selling SE? You can play countless hours in this great aircraft doing full missions, including AAR, A2A, A2G, day or night - I'd say it's worth the price already. Of course I'd wish it would get updates and fixes but I'll never regret buying it or lose the money if it won't.

[eFirehawk]

17 minutes ago, draconus said:

If you mean SE it's still offered with EA discount.

What's so special about HB? Their F-14 is not updated for as long as the SE. That they released shiny new toy doesn't mean they are any good at supporting their older modules, still EA.

EA? Does't seem to be in EA condition at the moment to me. At the present moment, the module should be offered with an EOL discount in my opinion. No updates for the incomplete module for the foreseeable future at least, if ever, which either means the user needs a 100GB+ separate install of DCS to run the module without updates or face it degrading over time.

Edited June 1, 2024 by eFirehawk

[stonewall197922]

22 минуты назад, draconus сказал:

And why would they refund or stop selling SE? You can play countless hours in this great aircraft doing full missions, including AAR, A2A, A2G, day or night - I'd say it's worth the price already. Of course I'd wish it would get updates and fixes but I'll never regret buying it or lose the money if it won't.

Refund, leave as is or not to buy - decision that everyone must make for himself. But if company knows about problems they atleast must inform potential buyers. 

P.s. And more critical point. When i`ve bought f-15e, i made my decision that this module, being complete will have certain features. Which  currently not implemented. And as i said earlier, maybe never will. So when you sell something and you know it have problems and don`t tell- that`s a lie.  

Edited June 1, 2024 by stonewall197922

[LordOrion]

10 minutes ago, draconus said:

And why would they refund or stop selling SE? You can play countless hours in this great aircraft doing full missions, including AAR, A2A, A2G, day or night - I'd say it's worth the price already. Of course I'd wish it would get updates and fixes but I'll never regret buying it or lose the money if it won't.

I'm also really enjoying the SE as it is now, but going back (and knowing about this disaster), I wouldn't have spent $56 on it.

[Blackeye]

34 minutes ago, draconus said:

And why would they refund or stop selling SE?

Because it implies that it is still in development - it even lists features that will become available during EA - and will be supported by future version of DCS. Currently neither of that is true, and ED should state that fact in the description if they want to keep selling it. And even if they are super confident that the issue will be solved they still need to mention this and perhaps offer a guaranteed refund if development hasn't resumed by <insert date>, but I guess their confidence doesn't go that far.

 

[stonewall197922]

There`s too much IF`s. If case will be solved without court. If it solved? if there`s enough of employees to work. If parties went to the court, it can last for years. If one side win court, other will appeal again and again. And even if its get solved quickly, damage to reputation already done.

[Checkmate]

2 hours ago, draconus said:

What's so special about HB? Their F-14 is not updated for as long as the SE. That they released shiny new toy doesn't mean they are any good at supporting their older modules, still EA.

Seriously! Maybe if Razbam released products half as complete as Heatblur we would not be having this conversation. 

[Schmidtfire]

2 hours ago, Checkmate said:

Seriously! Maybe if Razbam released products half as complete as Heatblur we would not be having this conversation. 

It does not matter how complete it is at release. Without ongoing updates and support even a fully completed module will over time turn into a digital paperweight.

DCS World is always moving forward. For modules it means that new bugs are constantly introduced and artwork eventually needs updating.
Development of a module never truly stops.