waiting for resolution RAZBAM Situation Post Archive (will be deleted)

[SkateZilla]

19 minutes ago, MiG21bisFishbedL said:

And this is why lawyers tell you to shut your trap.

too bad translate doesnt translate the images, lol.

[NineLine]

10 minutes ago, SkateZilla said:

too bad translate doesnt translate the images, lol.

Does on your phone

[addman]

3 hours ago, SkateZilla said:

For the record, ED is Being plenty transparent. just because you arent getting daily updates and behind the scenes post it notes? no corporation will public update contract disputes.

For Example, Is MS giving you daily updates (or asobo), about their legal battle with several aircraft manufacturers about license breaches for FS2020/2024? Nope, is it happening? Yup.

The Issue between ED and RB isn't about sustainability and financial future stability, it's about contract breaches.

The 3rd Party eco-system doesn't need to change, the contracts exist for a reason, 3rd parties control their own destiny's.

Pretty sure part of their contract obligation is supporting their products even after release.

 

That being said, this stuff happens all the time, everywhere, it's not a ED <-> 3rd Party problem, it's the nature of businesses.

The only reason we got 70 Pages of rumors, opinions, speculations, arguments, refund requests, etc etc. is because one side decided to go public, that's was their decision, it's over and done with, there's no take-backsies. Motives or intentions don't matter, it's a legal and operational distraction from the goal of getting the issue resolved..

So what was already a long enduring process, is likely going to take longer due to the negotiation and operational pause coming out of the darkness and into the light.




 

No, they are not being "plenty transparent", if they were then there wouldn't be 70+ pages of speculation. Contract breaches has EVERYTHING to do with sustainability in this case since it's the third party which has the power to support or not support their modules in case there are breaches by ANY party. It means that the customers are left hanging in the cold, like literally RIGHT NOW with the bug in the Mirage2k.

I don't think you get it, it's about trusting first and third parties, if there is no trust then you will lose your customers. I get this happens all the time but ED isn't MS with a gazillion different contracts with a gazillion different parties. ED is small potatoes with a handful of third-party developers who are the LIFELINE of DCS: World, without them DCS: World would absolutely not have the player base it has today. It's a big deal, stop downplaying it.

It happens all the time you say? we, the customers just don't hear about it most of the time? We'll, that's definitely not a good thing to mention, jesus it just makes it seem worse. Like the whole business is basically just a fragile house of cards waiting to keel over in the wind.

I don't think this is the norm, when did a third-party refused to update their products recently? I can't remember.

I don't care about rumours, I react to facts. Fact: Razbam has stopped updating their products (excluding SA map) Fact: This has already started affecting products that people have purchased from them.

These are a few but important facts, not rumours and the effects of this conflict between first and third party are just beginning to show.

[Oban]

So many lawyers here it's hard to keep up with it all.

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

5 minutes ago, addman said:

No, they are not being "plenty transparent", if they were then there wouldn't be 70+ pages of speculation.

We have people speculate on the moon landings' veracity and shape of the planet.

There will always be speculation about everything and everyone. Just because it's there, doesn't mean it's compelling.

[SkateZilla]

19 minutes ago, NineLine said:

Does on your phone

nope, images still not in english, lol.. 

I still have a Note 10+ , so no AI assisted yada blada shamushkin features.

16 minutes ago, Oban said:

So many lawyers here it's hard to keep up with it all.

So many CEOs too.. 

I feel like we are all just Harvard grads on the side.

11 minutes ago, MiG21bisFishbedL said:

We have people speculate on the moon landings' veracity and shape of the planet.

There will always be speculation about everything and everyone. Just because it's there, doesn't mean it's compelling.

The Moon landings doesn't need speculation... It was the auto-bots crash landing with the space bridge.

[NineLine]

3 minutes ago, SkateZilla said:

nope, images still not in english, lol.. 
 

Sorry meant phone with Google translate

[SkateZilla]

40 minutes ago, addman said:

No, they are not being "plenty transparent", if they were then there wouldn't be 70+ pages of speculation. Contract breaches has EVERYTHING to do with sustainability in this case since it's the third party which has the power to support or not support their modules in case there are breaches by ANY party. It means that the customers are left hanging in the cold, like literally RIGHT NOW with the bug in the Mirage2k.

I don't think you get it, it's about trusting first and third parties, if there is no trust then you will lose your customers. I get this happens all the time but ED isn't MS with a gazillion different contracts with a gazillion different parties. ED is small potatoes with a handful of third-party developers who are the LIFELINE of DCS: World, without them DCS: World would absolutely not have the player base it has today. It's a big deal, stop downplaying it.

It happens all the time you say? we, the customers just don't hear about it most of the time? We'll, that's definitely not a good thing to mention, jesus it just makes it seem worse. Like the whole business is basically just a fragile house of cards waiting to keel over in the wind.

I don't think this is the norm, when did a third-party refused to update their products recently? I can't remember.

I don't care about rumours, I react to facts. Fact: Razbam has stopped updating their products (excluding SA map) Fact: This has already started affecting products that people have purchased from them.

These are a few but important facts, not rumours and the effects of this conflict between first and third party are just beginning to show.

So me not showing up to work at my contracted time, is because of sustainability and not because I wanted to stay home and watch the Xbox and AMD Press conferences.

Last time I heard, MS Shifted about 20% of the Asobo FS202x team to another project, Thus Eagle Dynamics is in fact bigger than Asobo's FS202x Team now.


 

3 hours ago, Fuchs said:

https://www.checksix-forums.com/viewtopic.php?f=432&t=219674&start=125#p1960719

does Galinette understand, MCS wasnt created because people were bringing DCS into the Sqns?

It also wasnt rush created to take a pro market,

MCS is TBS, TBS was around before DCS World.

MCS is also NOT DCS, Therefore, a un authorized use of tools for another sim,

Not to mention the license agreement clearly states:

Quote

(e) exploit this Program or any of its parts commercially, including but not limited to use at a cyber cafe, computer gaming centre or any other location-based site. 

I'd say building a module for squadrons to use on base with multiple copies of DCS qualifies as a location based site..

So.... :Shrug:

Edited June 10, 2024 by SkateZilla

[Nightdare]

28 minutes ago, addman said:

No, they are not being "plenty transparent", if they were then there wouldn't be 70+ pages of speculation.

That has to do with people acting on incomplete information, not with transparancy

 

28 minutes ago, addman said:

Contract breaches has EVERYTHING to do with sustainability in this case since it's the third party which has the power to support or not support their modules in case there are breaches by ANY party. It means that the customers are left hanging in the cold, like literally RIGHT NOW with the bug in the Mirage2k.

 

Yeah, and how do you plan to prevent that?

 

28 minutes ago, addman said:

I don't think you get it, it's about trusting first and third parties, if there is no trust then you will lose your customers. I get this happens all the time but ED isn't MS with a gazillion different contracts with a gazillion different parties. ED is small potatoes with a handful of third-party developers who are the LIFELINE of DCS: World, without them DCS: World would absolutely not have the player base it has today. It's a big deal, stop downplaying it.

 

No, it's about contracts, trust is a nebulous thing, contracts can be enforced

 

28 minutes ago, addman said:

It happens all the time you say? we, the customers just don't hear about it most of the time? We'll, that's definitely not a good thing to mention, jesus it just makes it seem worse. Like the whole business is basically just a fragile house of cards waiting to keel over in the wind.

 

Hello and welcome to reality

That car you just bought? if it's manufacturer folds, say bye-bye to spare parts (Anyone own a Saab?)

 

28 minutes ago, addman said:

I don't think this is the norm, when did a third-party refused to update their products recently? I can't remember.

 

Perhaps this is the first time a contractor did this with ED, in the rest of the world it's not so rare

Just because it happens to involve you, doesn't make this special

 

28 minutes ago, addman said:

I don't care about rumours, I react to facts. Fact: Razbam has stopped updating their products (excluding SA map) Fact: This has already started affecting products that people have purchased from them.

It hasn't affected any product, everything RB is still "as is", you can return the F15,... or keep it

 

28 minutes ago, addman said:

These are a few but important facts, not rumours and the effects of this conflict between first and third party are just beginning to show.

 

Fact: RB and ED have a dispute

That's all you have

 

[Nightstalker]

What is difficult to understand?  Honestly, I'm not being argumentative here.  If you are uncomfortable with the situation of the F15 not being finished or not becoming finished you can receive a full credit to your account.  You are not getting a refund because the plane still works and NOBODY has announced it's dead.  You are not getting a refund for the other modules because they all still work and most are considered finished except for the S/A map which is actually not being made by RAZBAM just under it.  If the whole agreement goes south and ED has no ability to continue updating the modules they will have to look at refunds.  They have already made a comment about this earlier in this very thread that you are protected if you wait until the end of the contractual dispute.  

I think it was very fair of ED to offer full credits for another module at this time seeing as the F15 is still working.  I asked for a credit and received it.  I felt there were lots of modules/maps coming out this year and I could better use the credits elsewhere until this gets resolved.  If it's resolved, I will happily re-purchase the F15.  It seems win/win to me at this point and I really don't understand the confusion.  The F4, Kiowa, Kola map, Afghanistan map, Chinook etc. are all either out or coming soon and maybe even more.  I'm sure if an actual DCS fan and you are that concerned about your investment you could find another ONE or more of those modules to spend it on.

They have made a fair offer (for the current situation) and you can accept it or wait.  It really isn't that difficult to understand.

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

1 hour ago, SkateZilla said:

The Moon landings doesn't need speculation... It was the auto-bots crash landing with the space bridge.

You know, I feel like they've been around long enough to learn the value of responsibility. I hope they at least take the blame.

[Horns]

1 hour ago, SkateZilla said:

MCS is TBS, TBS was around before DCS World.

Amongst all the talk about MCS this was my biggest question: What happened to TBS? Thanks for explaining that.

[obsidianuk]

4 hours ago, BIGNEWY said:

Only the F-15E can be refunded currently and we would prefer you hold out for the resolution and continue to enjoy it for now. Once we have a resolution to the dispute we will know more. 

thank you 

A refund is not store credit, that's an exchange. Eagle Dynamics are not refunding anything, you are in essence exchanging for another module.

A refund would be money back to the original payment method.

[NineLine]

45 minutes ago, obsidianuk said:

A refund is not store credit, that's an exchange. Eagle Dynamics are not refunding anything, you are in essence exchanging for another module.

A refund would be money back to the original payment method.

This is currently what we are offering for the F-15E. This is different from our normal refund policy for what is still currently a working module. We understand developments have been frozen for we have given this option for now to those who do not want to wait or stress about it. Thanks.

[IceyJones]

vor 4 Stunden schrieb Oban:

The F15E isn't dead, how many times do people have to be told? If it's not dead, then you don't get a full refund.

As it stands, the situation does not deem a full refund, irrespective of what right you may think you have.

so.....tell me, when this is resolved?

if RZB and ED are going to court, it will be in switzerland. average process timeframe for civil business cases is min 1 year. average 2 years.

 

vor 7 Minuten schrieb NineLine:

This is currently what we are offering for the F-15E. This is different from our normal refund policy for what is still currently a working module. We understand developments have been frozen for we have given this option for now to those who do not want to wait or stress about it. Thanks.

so....why did your support deny my first request. with 2nd still not answered?

Edited June 10, 2024 by IceyJones

[Galinette]

6 hours ago, Fuchs said:

https://www.checksix-forums.com/viewtopic.php?f=432&t=219674&start=125#p1960719

What's explained in this post is very far from what you tried to "translate". It's a good thing you deleted your original post, as it's crossing the boundaries of defamation.

 

3 hours ago, MiG21bisFishbedL said:

And this is why lawyers tell you to shut your trap.

Not really, no. There is nothing proving or stating any IP infringement in Galinette's post. Fuchs translated with his butt to create drama.

[draconus]

3 hours ago, SkateZilla said:

too bad translate doesnt translate the images, lol.

FYI on translate.google.com there's a tab for image translation.

https://translate.google.com/?sl=auto&tl=en&op=images

[inhari]

On 6/4/2024 at 8:41 PM, Atazar SPN said:

Perhaps the racism you speak of is inverse and what is really happening has to do with slight doses of Hispanophobia.

can you please stop talking about hispanophobia just because they dont agree with you or share your opinions? your personal problems doesnt have anything to do with hispanophobia.

[Koziolek]

18 minutes ago, IceyJones said:

so.....tell me, when this is resolved?

if RZB and ED are going to court, it will be in switzerland. average process timeframe for civil business cases is min 1 year. average 2 years.

 

I like it very much. Asked and answered in 2 short sentences. If only all post were so precise 

[Gman109]

 I dislike this situation - and IMO it takes both sides to create something  like this, but after reading a lot of the history of this team...past behavior is indicative of future behavior in the vast majority of cases.  I respect ED, I used to deal with Carl Norman frequently back in the early Flankde days, right around when Wags come aboard.   Such a marvelous thing they've created,  RAZBAM has done some great things too, I mean yeah, the Harrier et al aren't finished, but anyone can admit that making a VSTOVL aircraft work in an sim they way our Harrier does is bonkers. 

 

I'm standing pat with my purchases from ED, and I'd rather support another team by purchasing their work, as opposed to trading the F15E for it and then them not getting full compensation.  I also don't want to harm ED by asking them to fork out cash back to me, especially since it's only been 2 months, and I have hope that the F15E and others will continue to be updating, someway, somehow.

So.  Would Razbam and ED entertain an  outside investor to become involved in this specific situation?  

Edited June 10, 2024 by Gman109

[Galinette]

3 hours ago, SkateZilla said:

I'd say building a module for squadrons to use on base with multiple copies of DCS qualifies as a location based site..

No, this clause is about purchasing regular, cheap software licenses and making people pay per use (as in an arcade game center, for instance). If a 3rd party purchased generic DCS licenses and made any squadron pay per use, then yes it's infringing this clause.
If a squadron purchases generic DCS licenses for training, it's possibly infringing DCS EULA, but in that case the 3rd party is not in cause. The squadron is.

Edited June 10, 2024 by Kercheiz

[Beirut]

4 hours ago, SkateZilla said:

too bad translate doesnt translate the images, lol.

 

You don't read French?

 

Some people... 

[Oban]

56 minutes ago, IceyJones said:

so.....tell me, when this is resolved?

if RZB and ED are going to court, it will be in switzerland. average process timeframe for civil business cases is min 1 year. average 2 years.

 

so....why did your support deny my first request. with 2nd still not answered?

 

It will be resolved when both parties agree on a solution, you're asking an ambigious question that not one single person in this thread can answer, there's no timeline for such cases, that's down to lawyers and the various players involved.

It's like asking when the Aviastorm Tornado will be released... nobody can answer that, and the very people who constantly post "hurry up and release now" are normally the forst ones to complain about the module not being up to their standards.

Neither Big Newy, or Nineline are in a position to offer time lines when this specific situation will be resolved, it's time some folks here understood this.

 

[Hammer1-1]

any reason to pitch a fit...

you arent going to get your way, its not going to be resolved because YOU want it to, and if you get a refund then what? will the nonsense end finally?

this thread is like a women's tennis match = back and forth, back and forth, back and forth. thinking its high time people moved on from this topic and start living life again...I hear a shiny new phantom just dropped and the dev team responsible for it didnt stop work because they havent been paid due to contract issues.......

[maxTRX]

OK,  I see about 20 original statement expanded into 70 pages of different word combinations, grammar patterns, translations and predictions...  time for something original:  What if both parties + others are scheming together    First, let's see how desperate people here are then...  Nah, that doesn't add up, next theory...  Yeah, laugh all you want but until they debug some of my jets,  my head is full of conspiracies