waiting for resolution RAZBAM Situation Post Archive (will be deleted)

[Pipe]

7 hours ago, Firebird1955 said:

Some people here are amazing.   It is typical of todays environment though, where if you don't get ALL of the information or the answer you want: "Well, maybe they didn't understand the question so I will ask it again......and again.........and again......etc..   Stating your PERSONAL opinions and what YOU think should happen are doing nothing to assist or help the situation at hand.  I congratulate both Nineline and BigNewy for their patience.  I saw a post earlier in this thread about the Toxic environment on a Discord thread and they were absolutely correct about the toxicity.  I would prefer not have to dig through that same toxicity to get an update here.  At the end of the day, it will be what it is.  We will have to just put our Big boy pants on and live with the resolution/results.  

You dont need to read any of this, all if any updates will be in the first post

[Firebird1955]

11 minutes ago, Pipe said:

You dont need to read any of this, all if any updates will be in the first post

Genius...............Why didn't I think of that.............

[pricklyHH72]

9 hours ago, Dav IRL said:

There is so much speculation, it's like a murder mystery, calm down everyone and have a drink on me. 

That's a big part of the problem: the convoluted speculation which twists and double-backs on itself to the point that even when official spokespeople say there's a legal resolution being worked on, people keep dissecting the language for hidden meaning, deception, and ultimately speculative deductions based on very few known facts. Any anomaly that crops up in the modules since they're not being maintained, is seen as evidence and proof beyond doubt of the conspiracy. Snippets posted by a disgruntled employee on a forum, must be gospel, and some were suggesting the whole franchise could go down the toilet.

As I said early after post Ron's official announcement, once you go public on an issue the thing will grow it's own legs and is impossible to control, tame or put back in the box. As much as all of this sucks, we're going to have to wait, the longer the modules remain in limbo the greater potential for bugs to creep in as ED and the other 3rd parties carry on with the core business.

[AR_Parker]

 Everyone grabbing pitchforks and tinfoil hats will do no good. I can understand frustrations and all of that jazz. At the end of the day the situation sucks. The community getting dragged into it sucks. i Truly hope all of this gets sorted. 

[Jackjack171]

37 minutes ago, AR_Parker said:

 Everyone grabbing pitchforks and tinfoil hats will do no good. I can understand frustrations and all of that jazz. At the end of the day the situation sucks. The community getting dragged into it sucks. i Truly hope all of this gets sorted. 

This has been said many ways and many times. Some just want to hear what they want to hear and nothing else. What's clear here is that many have not gone through legal proceedings of any kind...whether it's business, divorce or something else! Legal things take time and answers do not come quick like they do on Tik Tock or Insta. This is difficult for many to grasp as instant gratification is running rampant. They ask for transparency and as soon as you give it, it's still a "but, but, but I heard" type response. Can't make this stuff up!

[Lone_Hawk_13]

Has anyone else had the f-15 disabled

[draconus]

11 hours ago, wadman said:

Regardless of the semantics, the lack of transparency on this significant issue for a new user buying a module that might end up not supported just doesn’t sit well with me ethically.  The dispute between ED and Razbam should not mean that new customers potentially get left with a module that doesn’t get promised updates, has no support or worse: loses existing functionality (like the current radar issue).

From the OP:

Quote

How can you keep selling the F-15E or other modules?
Right now we are working within the framework of the legal advice moving forward and not wanting to cause any more riffs or issues. It's a complex process at this point and most likely why it seems to be moving so slowly for everyone. Nothing more can be said about that right now. Sorry.

11 hours ago, wadman said:

Also, I did not suggest removing the module - just adding a disclaimer so a that purchasers could decide with full knowledge of this (unprecedented?) situation.

What makes Razbam products so special apart that you know there's some "situation"? How do they differ from other modules?

Radar failure? It happens in DCS all the time. Modules break and then they are fixed.

No updates? We don't see much updates or at all for other modules too for quite a time: Mi-8, UH-1H, FW-190A8, Mosquito, Yak-52...

Uncertain future? All 3rd party modules should have a disclaimer now because we don't know their future?

AV warnings? Happens in DCS and with many modules all the time, including the dcs.exe itself.

2 minutes ago, Lone_Hawk_13 said:

Has anyone else had the f-15 disabled

Yes.

Edited June 20, 2024 by draconus

[Lone_Hawk_13]

3 minutes ago, draconus said:

From the OP:

What makes Razbam products so special apart that you know there's some "situation"? How do they differ from other modules?

Radar failure? It happens in DCS all the time. Modules break and then they are fixed.

No updates? We don't see much updates or at all for other modules too for quite a time: Mi-8, UH-1H, FW-190A8, Mosquito, Yak-52...

Uncertain future? All 3rd party modules should have a disclaimer now because we don't know their future?

AV warnings? Happens in DCS all the time, including the dcs.exe itself.

Yes.

Thank you

[Notso]

6 hours ago, draconus said:

From the OP:

What makes Razbam products so special apart that you know there's some "situation"? How do they differ from other modules?

Radar failure? It happens in DCS all the time. Modules break and then they are fixed.

No updates? We don't see much updates or at all for other modules too for quite a time: Mi-8, UH-1H, FW-190A8, Mosquito, Yak-52...

Uncertain future? All 3rd party modules should have a disclaimer now because we don't know their future?

AV warnings? Happens in DCS and with many modules all the time, including the dcs.exe itself.

Yes.

 

I'm sorry, that's Bull!  This stuff does NOT happen "all the time".  In the 5 years i've been playing DCS, I've never once:

• Had to trick F*k my computer system date to get an aspect of the module to work. 
• Had my AV quarantine files nor had to exclude entire directories from the AV scan

Yes modules break all the time and get fixed.  But No updates are coming to fix this until the dispute gets resolved.  That could be a while as 9L and BN said several times.  So I think it's unconscionable to continue to sell it in the store to new users that are most likely completely unaware of the drama. 

And I do not buy at all that its a legal barrier.  Razbam is the "owner" of the module.  The only reason ED might not be legally unable to remove it or at least suspend it is if the original Dev/owner doesn't want it to be so.  But RB has specifically formally requested via their lawyers to ED lawyers to please remove their modules from the store until this issue is resolved.  

[Oban]

7 minutes ago, Notso said:

I'm sorry, that's Bull!  This stuff does NOT happen "all the time".  In the 5 years i've been playing DCS, I've never once:

• Had to trick F*k my computer system date to get an aspect of the module to work. 
• Had my AV quarantine files nor had to exclude entire directories from the AV scan

Yes modules break all the time and get fixed.  But No updates are coming to fix this until the dispute gets resolved.  That could be a while as 9L and BN said several times.  So I think it's unconscionable to continue to sell it in the store to new users that are most likely completely unaware of the drama. 

And I do not buy at all that its a legal barrier.  Razbam is the "owner" of the module.  The only reason ED might not be legally unable to remove it or at least suspend it is if the original Dev/owner doesn't want it to be so.  But RB has specifically formally requested via their lawyers to ED lawyers to please remove their modules from the store until this issue is resolved.  

Now that IS very ominous.

[Predator-78]

7 ore fa, Lone_Hawk_13 ha scritto:

Qualcun altro ha disabilitato l'F-15?

Hello, I asked for and received a refund for the F-15E module, and as a result I removed it from my personal account. I am happy that ED gave this opportunity to customers who were disappointed by this situation, it was a demonstration of honesty towards their customers who have no responsibility in the matter with RZB. I was and am a lover of the F-15E module, but I absolutely did not want to have a module in my account that is no longer updated until the legal situation is resolved. If in the future another third party decides to develop it or ED itself, then I will make the purchase again. At the moment, with the refund obtained, I can decide whether to take another module on sale as an alternative.

[afnav130]

Ooof now a person from RB who I am sure will be discredited has stated that ED didn't pay HB for over a year when the 14 was released.  No wonder the HB stuff was bandied about a little bit when this started and RB mentioned it but HB remained radio silent. Now that all makes sense. 

[scommander2]

On 6/18/2024 at 2:27 PM, Mizzy said:

I don't do any fighting in DCS so it's not really important all this radar thing

Indeed, it is another enjoyment of flying DCS mods on the sky and looking around details of terrains since we do not fly the actual plans and combat in the real life

[HWasp]

1 hour ago, afnav130 said:

Ooof now a person from RB who I am sure will be discredited has stated that ED didn't pay HB for over a year when the 14 was released.  No wonder the HB stuff was bandied about a little bit when this started and RB mentioned it but HB remained radio silent. Now that all makes sense. 

It would be really sad, if that turned out to be true... 

Did anyone up there calculate, how much this little drama will cost both companies in the next, let's say 3 years, if not resolved?

[maxTRX]

1 hour ago, Notso said:

...But RB has specifically formally requested via their lawyers to ED lawyers to please remove their modules from the store until this issue is resolved.  

Damn it!  Here goes my main theory.   For some reason I thought the only thing they agreed upon was keeping the neutered module in the store  

Now, ricocheting into a different direction:  I have a fuzzy picture on ED's structure... never bothered to dig deeper.  Am I correct here?   The core coders are in Russia but the headquarters, sales, putting updates together and rolling them out to different servers is in Switzerland?  

[agamemnon_b5]

20 hours ago, wadman said:

Money grab may be too harsh, but I was not talking about the amount of money.

Regardless of the semantics, the lack of transparency on this significant issue for a new user buying a module that might end up not supported just doesn’t sit well with me ethically.  The dispute between ED and Razbam should not mean that new customers potentially get left with a module that doesn’t get promised updates, has no support or worse: loses existing functionality (like the current radar issue).

Also, I did not suggest removing the module - just adding a disclaimer so a that purchasers could decide with full knowledge of this (unprecedented?) situation.  I also did not ask for a refund.

I’ll leave it at that - you won’t change my moral compass on that aspect of this mess.

 

 

It's not sitting well with a lot of people. Content creators have pulled their F-15E videos because of what you stated.

I know you didn't suggest it, but I'll say that yes, RB modules should be pulled until the situation is resolved. It does come across as a money grab (IMHO). Especially given that the Mirage 2000 and F-15E are showing issues now from not being updated.

[Beirut]

Did I miss something or is there no Strike Eagle in the Summer Sale video?

[GUCCI]

22 minutes ago, Beirut said:

Did I miss something or is there no Strike Eagle in the Summer Sale video?

No F-15E in the summer sale video. She’s been absent for a few videos including Kola. Now I’m curious to see, next week, if she’s included with the Afghanistan release trailer.. might give me a little bit of hope.

[C3PO]

Hi ED / RB - please just sort it out.

[Gizmo03]

vor 29 Minuten schrieb Beirut:

Did I miss something or is there no Strike Eagle in the Summer Sale video?

No, there is no Strike Eagle. Does that mean anything? I hope not. Because there is also no Gazelle, OH-58, MB339, Mirage F1, F-86, MiG-15..... or Mi-24, Mi-8, UH-1.... man, i really hope there is no meaning behind the absence of the Strike Eagle in this video.

[Czar66]

Frankly, it would be pretty wild to see the SE on the video given the current technical problems with the radar.
It shouldn't be displayed as a flag to lure people into the store as it is...

[Beirut]

Just now, Gizmo03 said:

No, there is no Strike Eagle. Does that mean anything? I hope not. Because there is also no Gazelle, OH-58, MB339, Mirage F1, F-86, MiG-15..... or Mi-24, Mi-8, UH-1.... man, i really hope there is no meaning behind the absence of the Strike Eagle in this video.

 

Yeah, but the F-15E is/was a "flagship" model up there with the Hornet, Tomcat, and Viper.

 

If it's not there, it's not there by design.

[LorenLuke]

2 minutes ago, C3PO said:

Hi ED / RB - please just sort it out.

That assumes both parties are being reasonable. Have you ever tried to 'sort it out' with someone who would have it their way, and no other way? How do you sort that out with just giving in to their demands and giving up everything you want?

[Gizmo03]

vor 12 Minuten schrieb Beirut:

 

Yeah, but the F-15E is/was a "flagship" model up there with the Hornet, Tomcat, and Viper.

And the Phantom - even more than the Tomcat. Did you see any Phantoms in this Video?

[Beirut]

7 minutes ago, Gizmo03 said:

And the Phantom - even more than the Tomcat. Did you see any Phantoms in this Video?

 

Nope. But I did see other HB products. No RB products at all I think.

 

We might need a whole other thread for this!