waiting for resolution RAZBAM Situation Post Archive (will be deleted)

[LTU]

In this situation, the biggest winners will be lawyers.

[Tank50us]

Just now, LTU said:

In this situation, the biggest winners will be lawyers.

Funny enough, we have Mosquitos with handbags... Though our Mosquitos are made of wood and have a bit more..... bite...

(like if you get the reference)

[lead dispenser]

Fellow players take a step back an breath for a second, try to comprehend that nothing that is happening is to get at you .An if it was as simple as some say just do this, why not just do that,  Those things would already be done . Everybody wants an end to the drama .... But Nobody just stops work for no reason, An Nobody just stops paying their bills for no reason .    .This isn't a simple  fix or it would already be fixed . .

Do what's right for you   . ,ie fly it or refund it or sit on it . but at the end of the day NONE of your emotions mean anything or affect anything other than to ruin your own day .

Theses lawyers will milk it for all they can an there will be a lot of time an money wasted on them. But it will pass try to enjoy what you have until then 

[OldFlyer]

I watched the ED summer sale video last night and, while entertaining, I noticed that the comments section was riddled with comments about the F-15E, RAZBAM, payments, you name it. I note now that those comments have been deleted and comments have been disabled. 

I hate to say it - but as a business owner my perspective is that it's a really bad look; deleting comments and locking the video looks like you're trying to bury your head in the sand and hope this will all just blow over rather than face up to the issues at hand. You might think there's nothing to say. But asking your lawyers to prepare an 'update' letting the community know that the parties are in active discussions to resolve the dispute might go a long way to keeping some peoples' frustration at bay.

Nothing has been said for weeks now. Saying that 'the lawyers are talking' is no doubt true but it's also patronising. We're not stupid, we all know that lawyers need to be instructed, they don't just toil away on their own. So it is certainly within ED's power to direct their efforts to prepare something like this.

This is not only for the RAZBAM products but you can see from comments on various forms of media that there is an increasingly large number of people saying they're holding off or reconsidering purchasing any modules at all, not just those by RAZBAM. I feel like you should want to address that. Otherwise I can see the growing chorus of frustrated customers turning to an avalanche of hate. 

This may sound like I'm having a crack but I only want the best outcome for you ED, as I enjoy DCS too much and don't want to see it fall out of favour with the flight sim community.

[jamie_c]

Technically an end user fix is not merely probable but possible beyond changing the system date/time. Where that sits with the EULA remains a concern - the break isn't technically that sophisticated.

[BIGNEWY]

7 hours ago, Notso said:

I was told that RB formally requested the modules be taken down several weeks ago until this matter gets resolved.

@Notso please stop posting for now, maybe you are not being told everything. 

thank you 

[TheFreshPrince]

Has anyone checked, if there are similar "expiration surprises" in other modules or features of the modules, if possible?

[Squiggs]

With the amount of speculation and fourth hand heasray being passed off as fact in this thread you would think it was written by CNN.

Edited June 21, 2024 by Squiggs

[SkateZilla]

11 hours ago, corvey said:

I agree, Notso.  I've been flying DCS modules since 2011 and never encountered jacking around with the date or AV to get any of my modules to work before.

 

So yeah, SkateZilla clearly proves a fact for which Ron chose not to participate in any sales, and yet here we are looking at the ED store page with the SE and all of Razbam's modules for sale.  Even Razbam's website removed forwarding links to sell said products. That in itself is indeed disrespectful.  That and the fact that several users and CMs here are continuing to say the module is still flyable which personally offends me because the RADAR system IS the bread and butter of the SE and without that the SE is a totally useless module.

 

I stumbled across this on another forum and thought it was a really good source of informational insight. . If this is fake please let me know and I'll delete it.

It just goes to show how simplistic an algorithm can be if this > that can do nothing ELSE radar code.

 

You're Mis-representing my statement,

When Ron said they choose not to participate in Sales, that was in reference to the Spring, Summer, Winter, Fall, XXXXX Holiday, Massive Discount Sales.

That screen grab is not fake, as I've seen the discord conversation in question and it's actually several weeks old now, as the issue with the M2000C was already fixed.

That being said, the victimizing is relentless, the subcontractors and employees have no say in having items pulled from sale, the contract terms control that, until the dispute is resolved, nothing changes, that much has been made abundantly clear.

RB removed the links and plastered their site with messages re-directing everyone to E.D, the dispute is a 2-Sided legal conflict, RB is trying to push everyone to believing it's 100% on E.D., when it's not. Whether that was RB's intention or not really doesn't matter at this point because the outcome is clear, there are 100s of deadplayer servers w/ the "#PayRazbam / BoycottED slogans, there are comments being left all over ED's YT and FB Pages, Negative reviews on DCS's Store pages, and not ONE, A SINGLE POST, asking RB to do anything.

By going public w/ something that should have remained confidential, RB has basically put the community against ED, whether that was intentional or not is regardless, *(though posts on discord from the subcontractors nudge in the direction of, it was).

People believe everything on social media and discord, mainly due to the lack of information.

Consumers will have to wait until the legal proceedings are concluded for any type of information and resolution.

RB Employees posting on discord is only making an already drawn out process longer for several reasons.

Edited June 21, 2024 by SkateZilla

[Beirut]

2 hours ago, OldFlyer said:

I watched the ED summer sale video last night and, while entertaining, I noticed that the comments section was riddled with comments about the F-15E, RAZBAM, payments, you name it. I note now that those comments have been deleted and comments have been disabled. 

I hate to say it - but as a business owner my perspective is that it's a really bad look; deleting comments and locking the video looks like you're trying to bury your head in the sand and hope this will all just blow over rather than face up to the issues at hand.

 

I checked. You're right. And the video has 1.1K upvotes and 1.4K downvotes as of the time of this post.

 

Disabling comments on YouTube is a public retreat and admission of fear. It was a bad idea. 

 

.

Edited June 21, 2024 by Beirut

[Frost]

The thing is, that it doesn't even matter who is wrong or right, or in which amount both are at fault, in this particular case. The elephant in the room is the fact, that ED obviously didn't made their contracts -or whatever is legally necessary to guarantee the functionality and the progress of a particular product, tight enough so that stuff like this couldn't even happen in the first place. That's the purpose of a contract isn't it? So that in a worst case scenario -like now, there are no questions about what to do or what should happen. A contract is basically an emergency checklist, that tells you what to do in a scenario where you haven't the luxury of time to figure it out by yourself and at the cost of your passengers/customers. 

Edited June 21, 2024 by Frost

[Mistermann]

[BIGNEWY]

50 minutes ago, Beirut said:

 

Disabling comments on YouTube is a public retreat and admission of fear. It was a bad idea. 

Sorry that is a silly comment.
People making stupid remarks, threats, and spamming will be moderated. 

In this case it just so happened that both Nineline and myself were away for the day and evening. 

[Erazor]

52 minutes ago, Beirut said:

I checked. You're right. And the video has 1.1K upvotes and 1.4K downvotes as of the time of this post.

Disabling comments on YouTube is a public retreat and admission of fear. It was a bad idea.

They are counting on the community being forgetful and letting them off the hook over time. Suppressing critics is just one tool in the box. As you can witness in this thread, even SMEs are told to shut up.

Edited June 21, 2024 by Erazor

[BIGNEWY]

Folks a reminder to all. 

Please keep it civil and respectful, if you want to make claims about people do it in your discords and subreddits it has no place in this thread. 

Thank you 

[ruxtmp]

I learned my lesson with the AV-8 and RAZBAM and stayed away from the f-15E, but at least they got the Harrier into a good state but now I don't know if it will remain supported. I am staying away from all 3rd party items as a result of this situation. 3rd party modules seem like a huge risk now as either party can decide I'm out leaving the customer with an unsupported and very likely unfinished module. Also, I will be staying away from early access as it leaves too many unknowns, and the development time is multiple years at best leaving plenty of opportunity for original scope to be reduced. The Hornet is actually enough of a plane to keep me occupied on the maps I have.

[Beirut]

29 minutes ago, BIGNEWY said:

Sorry that is a silly comment.
People making stupid remarks, threats, and spamming will be moderated.

 

Threats are a another matter, but it's Youtube, stupid remarks are par for the course. Locking the comments is what Disney does when they put out another bad trailer and don't want to get destroyed. It's also why YouTube hides the number of downvotes now. And the downvotes on the Summer Sale video are now at 1.5k to 1.1k upvotes.

 

ED can do as it wishes, but it does not go unnoticed.

 

29 minutes ago, BIGNEWY said:

In this case it just so happened that both Nineline and myself were away for the day and evening. 

 

Time off? 

 

Scandalous!

[KungFu]

IMHO, If the intent is to reestablish a relationship with RAZBAM, then lawyers are only going to draw this out longer than need be and I guarantee you make is more complicated.   Both ED and RAZBAM representatives just need to swallow their pride and sit in a room for a day and come to  a resolution.   Each side will have to concede some things.   Lawyers are in it for the money and time is money.

But as I said before, it is EDs responsibility to make this right no matter what RAZBAM did or did not do.   We paid ED for the modules, they are EDs intellectual property.  ED is responsible for maintaining the trust with we the customers.

If indeed this is another HAWK situation, then ED and we customers are really in a bind.  We were promised this wouldn't happen again and yet here we are.  This tells me that RAZBAM's contract wasn't updated to put source code into escrow.  

But I'm also concerned about losing talent like Galinette, I don't think much of anything would bring him back.  The radar in the 15e is a masterpiece. 

[jamie_c]

@BIGNEWY just a query, would an end user provided technical solution, aka mod that doesn't alter the module files, allows DCS to see correct time, but deceives the radar potentially be acceptable? If not, I'll be quiet.

If you delete this I'll assume it's not permitted, no harm done.

[BIGNEWY]

24 minutes ago, Beirut said:

 

Threats are a another matter, but it's Youtube, stupid remarks are par for the course. Locking the comments is what Disney does when they put out another bad trailer and don't want to get destroyed. It's also why YouTube hides the number of downvotes now. And the downvotes on the Summer Sale video are now at 1.5k to 1.1k upvotes.

 

ED can do as it wishes, but it does not go unnoticed.

 

 

Time off? 

 

Scandalous!

You tube downvotes or upvotes changes nothing, we still have to wait for a resolution to the dispute. And that will take time. 

And yes I had a day off, was enjoying Crowded House and Neil Finn at Cardiff Castle with family.

22 minutes ago, jamie_c said:

@BIGNEWY just a query, would an end user provided technical solution, aka mod that doesn't alter the module files, allows DCS to see correct time, but deceives the radar potentially be acceptable? If not, I'll be quiet.

If you delete this I'll assume it's not permitted, no harm done.

I can not offer any solution or advice here, other than to refer to our EULA. 

We have reported the radar issue and we hope it will be fixed soon. 

thank you 

[jamie_c]

BN, Understood.

Thanks for responding anyway, I appreciate you've taken the time given how many cats you guys are herding.

[BIGNEWY]

3 minutes ago, jamie_c said:

BN, Understood.

Thanks for responding anyway, I appreciate you've taken the time given how many cats you guys are herding.

No problem and have a great weekend. 

[nessuno0505]

13 ore fa, NineLine ha scritto:

That's simply not true, we care a lot but this situation needs to be dealt with, I also have assurances from our team we will do everything we can to make sure the older modules do not go the way of the Hawk, no matter how this ends 

 

13 ore fa, NineLine ha scritto:

I just said worst case scenario the older modules will continue that work, the F-15E I am not sure hence us offering a refund.

 

Can you explain this in more detail? Will they continue to work, but without any further changes ever again? And who will fix any new bugs? Will they remain available "frozen" as they are or will the ED team take care of them as if they were their own modules? I wouldn't want to see second choice modules, in that case better to lose them IMHO. Thanks.

Edited June 21, 2024 by nessuno0505

[wadman]

13 hours ago, NineLine said:

I just said worst case scenario the older modules will continue that work, the F-15E I am not sure hence us offering a refund. There will be no official statement on this as such because both sides are still working on this so there is no need to assume we are at the point of no return.

A refund or a store credit?  Just want to clarify that as there is a big difference between those 2 things.

[NineLine]

6 minutes ago, nessuno0505 said:

 

 

Can you explain this in more detail? Will they continue to work, but without any further changes ever again? And who will fix any new bugs? Will they remain available "frozen" as they are or will the ED team take care of them as if they were their own modules? Thanks.

 

For the older module if this went the absolute worst case scenario they would remain as they are with no updates but continue to work. As feature complete modules this is all that is guaranteed even best case scenario although obviously if RB comes back and they decided to update or improve they could 

5 minutes ago, wadman said:

A refund or a store credit?  Just want to clarify that as there is a big difference between those 2 things.

Right now store credit.

1 hour ago, Beirut said:

 

Threats are a another matter, but it's Youtube, stupid remarks are par for the course. Locking the comments is what Disney does when they put out another bad trailer and don't want to get destroyed. It's also why YouTube hides the number of downvotes now. And the downvotes on the Summer Sale video are now at 1.5k to 1.1k upvotes.

 

ED can do as it wishes, but it does not go unnoticed.

 

 

Time off? 

 

Scandalous!

I am in Vegas at the Flight Sim Expo. Moderation at the best of times is a lot of work and had I been home and on my computer I would have attempted to moderate. Right now though we are seeing small groups campaigning for comment and review bombing so any moderation currently is extra work. I know these people think they are in some way helping but it won't speed this process up but if they are happy to give me and BN extra work then that's what me and him are here for.