DCS A-10C QUESTIONS

[Mike Busutil]

C models can be launched much faster than A models because they don't require the time to align the INS.

 

Are you saying the A models take longer to align the INS or that the C model does not require any time to align the INS?

 

In the INS / ALIGN Sub-Page we have the option for ground alignment (R3), or Inflt alignment (R5)

 

R3 - When first starting the aircraft and aligning it on the ground, GROUND will be selected by default. This results in a full gyrocompass alignment. The average ground alignment time is 5 minutes and is automatically started when the EGI switch is set to ON. The aircraft must not be moving for correct alignment.

 

R5 - If the INS alignment needs to be re-aligned while the aircraft is in flight or moving on the ground, this option is used. This alignment process uses current position and velocity measurements from the INS. Before starting an in flight alignment, EGI, STR PT and ANCHR should be deselected from the Navigation Mode Select Panel or select HARS. The EGI GPS will then be used to align the EGI INS. This process can take between 5 and 10 minutes.

[Nealius]

If the A-model's INS is anything like the F-16's pre-GPS INS, it would take 8 minutes.

[Archer7]

The formal list will say "do this" and when you go watch a real pilot do it you'll probably wonder why he's ignoring the carefully edited list.

 

The on call Sandies (CSAR) A-10s in Kosovo would "hot cock" their birds with all switches thrown so they only had to turn battery and engines on to be ready to go. Suffice to say that was probably not part of the vanilla procedures.

 

Ofcourse, when you have mastered any rule you can break it but it's good to have some reference in case your mind blanks etcetera.

 

Cocking is cool concept. I've seen cocking procedures in the manual but didn't know what it meant so I scrolled by it.

Seems there are directives for cocking with engines on, engines off but APU on, APU off but with the pilot still in the cockpit and with the pilot out of the cockpit.

Then you can "scramble" with only 34 steps instead of 100+ and use fast alignment, or if you scramble without having cocked you can align on the ground or in the air.

 

I take it scramble is an emergency speed-start?

 

It would be interesting with some missions starting with your aircraft cocked... that way you could start up quickly and be realistic :blink:

 

Are you saying the A models take longer to align the INS or that the C model does not require any time to align the INS?

 

In the INS / ALIGN Sub-Page we have the option for ground alignment (R3), or Inflt alignment (R5)

 

R3 - When first starting the aircraft and aligning it on the ground, GROUND will be selected by default. This results in a full gyrocompass alignment. The average ground alignment time is 5 minutes and is automatically started when the EGI switch is set to ON. The aircraft must not be moving for correct alignment.

 

R5 - If the INS alignment needs to be re-aligned while the aircraft is in flight or moving on the ground, this option is used. This alignment process uses current position and velocity measurements from the INS. Before starting an in flight alignment, EGI, STR PT and ANCHR should be deselected from the Navigation Mode Select Panel or select HARS. The EGI GPS will then be used to align the EGI INS. This process can take between 5 and 10 minutes.

 

He only meant it doesn't take as long to align, I believe.

 

Also I believe there's some sort of quick alignment option using stored data or something such?

[ENO]

We have that ability- except that the prepare function in the editor frequently currents the mission file and results in wonky behaviour. If they fix it, you will see prepared / Cocked pits.

[Flagrum]

We have that ability- except that the prepare function in the editor frequently currents the mission file and results in wonky behaviour. If they fix it, you will see prepared / Cocked pits.

My understanding here is that the changes you make during prepare mission are saved separately from the usual mission settings in the mission file. If you then alter the configuration of the aircraft back in the mission editor, there will be conficts as the prepare mission settings will have priority.

 

Example:

Your mission contains a loadout of 4 MK-82. You do a prepare mission and re-arm the aircraft with 4 GBU-12 instead.

If you now run the mission, all should be fine and you can drop your LGBs.

Now you go back to the ME and change the weapons to 4 CBU-97.

If you now run the mission, the "data cartdrige" says that CBUs are loaded, but the actual loadout are GBUs. You get all red in the DSMS. Reloading via DTS won't help, either.

 

What I want to say is, if you are carefull, it should be possible to do "prepare mission" without messing up everything.

[Snoopy]

Ah ok! So you would have prepared the A, plug in ext power and shutdown APU as well as you would need ext power for the C. So it is just the difference in the INS alignment?

 

Maybe I'm not understanding what you're talking about. The only time I have ever used or seen external power used on an A-10 (a or c) was to accomplish maintenance.

 

I can't speak for every alert ever pulled by an A-10 but the SAR alerts I pulled in Kuwait we never used external power. The pilots would come out to the jets each morning before our alert window opened up and we would conduct a normal launch up to the point of taxi. They would shut down the APU, both engines, turn off the inverter and battery. If the horn went off we would run to the jets, pull the battery pin, flip on the battery and inverter and start the APU. Every other switch was prepositioned so everything started without manipulation. Once the pilots arrived they would jump in the seat, start the engines and taxi out.

 

Are you saying the A models take longer to align the INS or that the C model does not require any time to align the INS?

 

He only meant it doesn't take as long to align, I believe.

 

/\/\ This

 

The minimum time to align the INS on the ground in A models (in the mid 90s) was on average 10 minutes (actual alignment time depended on the outside air temperature). It takes approx. 4 in the C model but even that is depended on the aircraft's latitude position. In extreme northern or southern latitudes it will take longer.

[shagrat]

So basically you save the 5-minutes-plus alignment time and have everything set already...

I was just thinking how I would do it in an A-10C. My first idea was to prepare all systems including alignment and then switch on external ground power and cut the APU. Now switch off MFCDs and when scrambling simply switch on MFCDs, APU and start the engines, now cut external power. Ready to taxi. Alignment and everything else already done and since you never cut power still ready when you get into the plane... I don't know if it is realistic, but it looks reasonable.

I do the same sometimes when repairing, to omit complete alignment again.

Though this is not realistic ;-)

[Archer7]

So basically you save the 5-minutes-plus alignment time and have everything set already...

I was just thinking how I would do it in an A-10C. My first idea was to prepare all systems including alignment and then switch on external ground power and cut the APU. Now switch off MFCDs and when scrambling simply switch on MFCDs, APU and start the engines, now cut external power. Ready to taxi. Alignment and everything else already done and since you never cut power still ready when you get into the plane... I don't know if it is realistic, but it looks reasonable.

I do the same sometimes when repairing, to omit complete alignment again.

Though this is not realistic ;-)

 

What about fast alignment though?

 

Warning: some complete guesses based on vague information from a guy who doesn’t understand how alignment or the A-10C electrical systems work yet upcoming:

 

During the cocking process you start up the aircraft as normal up to but not including taxi things but apparently including alignment, then you shut down the engines and electronics including the battery.

Then when you start again, only if alignment was completed, you can use the fast alignment option which is visible on the CDU for 30 seconds after the start-up bit is completed.

Now to the complete guess: alignment data is stored even with the battery off making the fast alignment option just as accurate as the complete ground alignment.

So while the ground alignment calculates your position on the planet or whatever it does the fast alignment simply loads already calculated data which is how it only can take a moment…

 

Maybe that’s not at all what alignment does and maybe the CDU can’t store alignment data and maybe I’m completely wrong about everything but based on an about 50 word description of fast alignment I’ve seen that’s what I understood :P

 

I suppose I gotta try this out soon.

 

If you do not align during cocking you're supposed to do a ground alignment or in-flight if you need to be in the air yesterday and have enough time in the air to align.

 

By the way: "hot cocking"... did they ask themselves how sexual they possibly could make something sound without it being sexual? :P

Edited July 10, 2014 by Archer7

[shagrat]

From what I understood, alignment is mostly needed for the INS (Inertial Navigation System) gyroscopes spinning up and the sensors to be synched. In parallel the GPS tracks down its satellites.

Fast alignment may be loading the "expected" position from the flightplan and get satellites accurate, later? Speculating here!

[shagrat]

When I learned English in school a cock was a male hen/chicken? Guess worm, snake, rod, pipe, etc. can quickly get a sexual touch, too, though they mean nothing like penis, which everybody omits, even when appropriate?! Humans are an illogical breed :D

[slowhand]

^:megalol::joystick::D:music_whistling::smartass:

[nwbasson]

Hot Cock = Hot Cockpit?

[weeb]

A10-c Hotas

 

Before I start hacking and slashing to make my flight control stick, I wondered if anyone on the forums who has either been in an A10 or seen the cockpit up close could answer a question for me. I searched and looked at lots of photos but I still find it inconclusive.

 

Does the hand grip/trigger part of the joystick have an offset IRL or does it point straight forward? It would feel more natural will a slight offset to the left looking forward, but I'm not sure how that would affect the control of the buttons. :joystick:

 

Cheers

 

weeb

[cichlidfan]

offset of approximately 15 degrees CCW

[weeb]

offset of approximately 15 degrees CCW

 

 

Cheers buddy, that answers that. Appreciated.

 

weeb

[Hansolo]

I can't speak for every alert ever pulled by an A-10 but the SAR alerts I pulled in Kuwait we never used external power. The pilots would come out to the jets each morning before our alert window opened up and we would conduct a normal launch up to the point of taxi. They would shut down the APU, both engines, turn off the inverter and battery. If the horn went off we would run to the jets, pull the battery pin, flip on the battery and inverter and start the APU. Every other switch was prepositioned so everything started without manipulation. Once the pilots arrived they would jump in the seat, start the engines and taxi out.

 

Thanks for info paulrkiii. I think got it to work after some trial and errors :thumbup:

 

Cheers

Hans

Edited July 11, 2014 by Hansolo

[Archer7]

Hot Cock = Hot Cockpit?

 

I would believe cocking comes from gun cocking.

You know that thing everybody does in the movies that make guns go click despite guns not having needed cocking since the Wild West to my knowledge... sounds cool and makes the audience know someone is going to shoot though!

[shagrat]

You cock a gun to enable a stable aim. It "arms" the "ignition pin hammer" (don't know the English term) so you just need to release it with the trigger! If you don't do it, you have to pull much harder on the trigger to spring load the hammer... which usually gives an unsteady aim.

A modern automatic will do this when loading the first round by sliding the tray back and each shot loads and arms again through the tray. In case you decide to not carry around a "loose gun" you may unload the hammer manually and then you may need to cock it again before firing...

[nwbasson]

You cock a gun to enable a stable aim. It "arms" the "ignition pin hammer" (don't know the English term) so you just need to release it with the trigger! If you don't do it, you have to pull much harder on the trigger to spring load the hammer... which usually gives an unsteady aim.

A modern automatic will do this when loading the first round by sliding the tray back and each shot loads and arms again through the tray. In case you decide to not carry around a "loose gun" you may unload the hammer manually and then you may need to cock it again before firing...

 

This. I would much rather fire a revolver by cocking it first as you have a much lighter trigger pull. Certain pistols you can also de-cock after loading a round in the chamber (1-up).

 

However we might be getting off-topic here.

[JayPee]

Get a Glock.

[Trase]

Can I reverse my ILS receiver? I'm sorry, I forgot the actual term, but in some civilian aircraft sims that I played, I could throw a switch, that would reverse my ILS signal input, and make it so I can land on runway 26, using ILS transmitter from runway 08. Again, sorry for a shitty explanation.

[shagrat]

Sounds strange! ILS should be a directional beacon, actually a glide path beam... how would you reverse that other may be possible to switch to a different ILS frequency for the other runway...?

[sLYFa]

Many DCS airports have ILS only for one direction and since IRL the ILS antennas are directed towards the inbound airplane, you should not be able to recieve a signal from the opposite direction anyway. But you could try to dial the opposite heading in your HSI, maybe that will work in DCS.

[Trase]

Whew! After hours of searching, I finally found this in some x-plane manual, to not sound like a complete madman.

 

What is a localizer back course?

 

Most localizer antennas transmit a signal in both directions. The primary published signal (that usually extends over the runway along the approach path) is called the front course. The back course extends in the opposite direction and can in many situations be used to fly an approach. This allows both directions of a runway to be served by a single localizer trasmitter.

 

When you fly a back course approach, your CDI sensing will be reversed because the two sides of the localizer signal are reversed from your point of view. This particularly affects the use of a VOR head to fly a back course. If the CDI needle points left, you must fly right, not left, to get on course. If you're using an HSI, you set the HSI's OBS to the front course, ie., opposite to the direction you're flying. This mechanically reverses the deflection of the CDI; the double reversal gives you a true course indication and you can simply "fly the needle" as you would for a front course.

 

http://home.earthlink.net/~x-plane/FAQ-Navaids.html

 

I wonder if DCS has such a system implemented, but probably not, since I did not receive an ILS signal when landing from the other end.

 

An unrelated question: Is there a strategy on searching the area with TGP for targets? A big area, like the enemy front in an automatically generated mission. My AI wingman find everyone extremely fast (And I don't know how to ask him to mark it for me, so that would be nice, too), and I just slew the TGP around and lucky to find a single truck or a tank in 5 minutes. Narrow fov is too slow to cover all that territory, and wide fov makes enemies too small to see sometimes.

 

Third question: What are some good guides on defending against fighters like mig 29? I learned most of the A-10 systems, but I'm a complete zero in tactics.

Edited July 12, 2014 by Trase

[shagrat]

Against Mig-29s? Run and call daddy! ...CAP that is.

You may try to defend yourself with the sidewinder or gun if the Mig gets close enough, but in general you are no match for it in an A-10.