Oculus Rift and DCS World Discussion

[metalnwood]

But I'm *MORE* concerned about not knowing where my hands are. And how to operate the MFDs. Not everything can be done via HOTAS. Otherwise, real jets wouldn't have a cockpit display! .

 

I agree that the first incarnation might not be great for reading some of those small displays. I don't see much of an issue if there is an in game mouse that works well in the rift so I can use the MFD like that in the future. Certainly not as good as using the MFD on the touchscreen but if the rest of the experience is worth more than having to use a mouse for MFD's then it's an OK tradeoff.

 

I have said it before though, I like flight sims. Since the A10 came out it has been my most used sim because I get the most enjoyment from it. I don't have any allegiance to it though so if DK2 comes out and I get more enjoyment flying in the swiss alps in a glider with a feeling of actually being there then thats what I will be doing.

 

The rift will work better in some cases than others, I think it's clear to most that the first iteration will not be near perfection for complex cockpits with lots of small text and little dots to look at on the horizon. On the other hand, I have done my fair share of summing where I don't need to look at complex pits and small dots on the horizon.

 

DCS is my current flight sim fad but the rift could change that if I get more enjoyment in less complex civ aircraft with a better sense of flying, I know the best experience on day 1 will not be in the a10 but thats where the technology is starting, not ending.

[blksolo]

I think DK2 will help with a lot of the problems people are having reading the MFD's because you will have the ability to lean in. I have 20/20 vision and I still have to lean in to read some of the finer things in the cockpit on my monitor.

[Kuky]

I would definitely not say that VR helmet is better then full blown projection... far from it. Lets be honest here, the only good thing VR has is much lower price and space it requires ;)

 

VR is alright, if you are just using HOTAS, with no peripherials, even using mouse to press buttons in game is not that good because your perception of where you are clicking in game (distances etc) are not the same as what you will be doing with your hands (to have to keep reaching the mouse)

 

I can see lot of people getting the CV of the rift (probably me included) then when novelty wears off, and we actually have to fight and press buttons in cockpits etc... we'll start to get anoyed with it and then start to see the downsides... right now we can't see it, but I am suspecting this is how it will be few months/years down the road when/if Oculus becomes widespread and catches on in flight sim community.

[metalnwood]

I can see lot of people getting the CV of the rift (probably me included) then when novelty wears off, and we actually have to fight and press buttons in cockpits etc... we'll start to get anoyed with it and then start to see the downsides... right now we can't see it, but I am suspecting this is how it will be few months/years down the road when/if Oculus becomes widespread and catches on in flight sim community.

 

Yes but we have to remember we are using some of the more complex aircraft in DCS that have many challenges when thinking about using them for VR, that doesn't mean VR cannot translate in to a great experience for flight simming. It's just that what it is good at might not be what they guys at the ed forum do most of the time.

 

I am not modifying my pit but I will add the rift and use it for what it's good at and not use it when my screen and helios is better.

 

When the rift matures there will be things where being in a vr pit is not so much of an issue, i.e. WWI scenarios, ww2, gliding, formation flying, air racing..

 

I am sure there are a lot more scenarios that work well with a rift and just a HOTAS + perhaps the odd bit of voice control where the immersion will blitz a monitor.

 

At the end of the day it is horses for courses, while a monitor will be better for some things, the immersion of the rift in others that don't have any peripheral issues will be better.

 

Of course some people will just like it one way or there other full stop :)

[vicx]

Yeah this argument that something is lost and something is found when new technology comes along reminds me of LAN gaming in the late 90's. On LAN twitch gaming was a better experience, but even with higher latency and lag, WAN gaming was always going to be the focus forever more.

 

Twitch gamers on PC also thought higher framerates and lower latency were more important than higher resolutions and making every thing look pretty. We weren't wrong but as it turns out, these other things were worthy of pursuing.

 

However I do like that the pendulum now swings back the other way with 3D stereoscopic gaming and VR. We now have 120hz monitors again (just like my old Sony CRT) and developers are now targeting low latency because you will vomit if the world doesn't update your VR viewport fast enough. Do you think that Sim users will not benefit from developers tweaking engines for high fps and low latency? Sims require low latency for sim fidelity even more than twitch games do.

 

Now for a disclosure. I only came to DCS because of an interest in VR experiences.

• I thought about ordering a DK2 after seeing an Elite: Dangerous demo.
  
• I installed the free DCS World after reading that DCS will have native Rift support.
  
• I enjoyed DCS Su-25T so much that I bought BS2 and FC3
  
• Two weeks later I ordered a DK2 because ... DCS will be an awesome VR experience.
  

 

So I'm like a VR barbarian at the DCS gates.

 

Kuky I totally agree with your prediction that VR will actually make you less competitive. I don't think there is any doubt that immersion will have to be it's own reward.

[TOYKILLA]

You need Oculus Rift and Contol VR for DCS, then You are in the Aircraft and Control it with your Fingers like the real one, look in 3D out of the Cockpit and perform Dogfights like a real Pilot. No CurvedScreen can do that. We only need a Control VR Body in our Cockpits.

[tintifaxl]

I'm absolutly looking forward to fly DCS:1944 with the Rift next year. With a campaign by Desastersoft this would be the most immersive experience in my flying career.

[verana_ss]

I would definitely not say that VR helmet is better then full blown projection... far from it. Lets be honest here, the only good thing VR has is much lower price and space it requires ;)

 

 

both have pros and cons imo.

 

Interesting experience I had with Oculus + Chopper demo was that with VR, you hardly gonna try a silly maneuver with it.

I dont know if it's because things are drawn with almost 1:1 with 3D, you somewhat feel "it will trigger catastrophic outcome if I exceed this" feeling as you do in reality.(like when you drive a car)

 

Also when you land the chopper, your handling on the stick and throttle become very deliberate even though its FM is gamey as there is actually no choice other than doing that.(you feel VERY uncomfortable with rough landing)

 

I think these feelings you can experience are VR exclusive.

[zahry]

No, the sad fact is simply that VR is putting your nose out of joint because you are a seller of alternate technology which is going to suffer badly because it is massively limited and frankly inferior.

bongo - WOW, that rift is SO fantastic, everything is soooo REAL - I never experienced anything like that before! So much detail and everything is so sharp.I can even have a look over my shoulder without turning mu head. i can even see the ants on the ground and squirels in the trees! WOW - there is nothing better than oculus. I will even read my emails, books and watch TV on it, that will completely replace everything including my house, fridge and toilet. Screw those guys who say otherwise - never had it on but it is so Awesome - internet says so - so it must be true. I'll be living in virtual world. WOW and if I buy this version and I find i can recognize a house from horse they will sell me NEW version with few extra pixels!!! And then another one and than another one and then another one. WOW That will be better than real life:pilotfly:.

 

Feeling happier bongo?

 

 

OK - now reality check - oculus is alternate technology which is suffering heavily from shortcomings because of technological limitations and quite frankly in it's current state it is regretfully inferior to everything else - BUT IT HAS A 3D EFFECT WHICH IS SO CUTE!!!! that's it.

 

Here is bit of history - what is the oculus based on

and where the ideas came from http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=120&t=11970 Palmer was contributing as well but it was joint effort - Once palmer took everything by himself to kickstarter that was it for new fresh ideas and nothing new came up pretty much since. Everybody believed things will get better and the development will fly forward - Instead the whole DIY creative community died, all development stopped and oculus started pouring money and creativity into scam marketting instead of bringing new things. If you tear things done the only innovative thing is marketing and selling hype. That would be probably the reason why out of all companies Oculus was bought by facebook because they are the best positioned to harvest the hype. If it was about product and HMD tech companies would jump in instead of social media which are the best for amping up hypes ( has anybody wondered what's in it for facebook?)

 

Kuky - that's bang on a money and the exact progression I went through: Excitement, novelty wears off, reality check, denial, resignation. Oculus made me go through it again but this time it was very shortly lived :-)

 

PS: yes I'm worried about the way software developers are pressured from Oculus. I like complexity, detail, and challenge - that's what PC excels in - For simpletons games with funky effects we already have xbox, playstation and wii

 

PPS: good bye and out

Edited July 15, 2014 by zahry

[*Rage*]

Having never tried the rift my opinion is unqualified. However I will say that it seems to me that flying with the rift will compromise competitiveness for online events/squadmatches due to previously mentioned issues. In that sense it would seem to me not a substitute to a large high quality monitor. Yet.

 

If you think about it it took trackir 3 or 4 generations before it bacame a flight sim must have. Most squads now would not recruit a cadet without trackir and hotas hardware. I think the same will happen with VR. Its likely that within a few generations the technology will catch up to the requirement and at that point it will become a necessity.

[blackbelter]

Having never tried the rift my opinion is unqualified. However I will say that it seems to me that flying with the rift will compromise competitiveness for online events/squadmatches due to previously mentioned issues. In that sense it would seem to me not a substitute to a large high quality monitor. Yet.

 

If you think about it it took trackir 3 or 4 generations before it bacame a flight sim must have. Most squads now would not recruit a cadet without trackir and hotas hardware. I think the same will happen with VR. Its likely that within a few generations the technology will catch up to the requirement and at that point it will become a necessity.

 

I agree completely... There are clearly issues with VR as it is that require looking into. There are also issues with a full-blown projection system. For example, the vertical viewing angle is limited... You can't simply raise your head and look up like you could with a head-tracking system such as tir. That is in addition to the spatial requirement and the horrendous monthly electricity bill...

 

To me, I would want a full-blown projection system with the above issue (vertical fov) ironed out. That would be the next best thing after piloting a real aircraft. Next up might be VR, with all the mentioned issues resolved.

 

But as it is, it seems that the most sensible option for me is to keep the current setup (42 TV+trackir), until a later time when either system mentioned above achieves perfection.

[Maximus_G]

Having never tried the rift my opinion is unqualified. However I will say that it seems to me that flying with the rift will compromise competitiveness for online events/squadmatches due to previously mentioned issues. In that sense it would seem to me not a substitute to a large high quality monitor. Yet.

Any wide FOV solution reduces competitiveness to me. I've discovered that when tried to play games on a big screen positioned close enough to make a 90 degree FOV. Suddenly my targets disappeared in the peripheral vision area. I've discovered i had to actually turn my head constantly to keep situational awareness! Add a trackir to that and it becomes a mess. It's very inconvenient compared to traditional monitors, where you just have everything in front of your eyes, and there are no lags required to move your head and acquire a new visual contact. That's even more true for the online FPS games, as they require very small reaction times.

[Maximus_G]

VR is alright, if you are just using HOTAS, with no peripherials, even using mouse to press buttons in game is not that good because your perception of where you are clicking in game (distances etc) are not the same as what you will be doing with your hands (to have to keep reaching the mouse)

I can imagine a bunch of weird solutions for this )

Though i can easily grab my mouse with the eyes closed. Just a motor memory.

Anyway, i don't want to spill my tea, so a camera module attached to a VR device is an idea worth of trying. Even 2 cams to keep things stereoscopic.

Or i can use my fret saw to make a window beneath. Don't think it would ruin the immersion. Otherwise my cup of tea should be virtual too )

[Abburo]

Having never tried the rift my opinion is unqualified. However I will say that it seems to me that flying with the rift will compromise competitiveness for online events/squadmatches due to previously mentioned issues. In that sense it would seem to me not a substitute to a large high quality monitor. Yet.

 

If you think about it it took trackir 3 or 4 generations before it bacame a flight sim must have. Most squads now would not recruit a cadet without trackir and hotas hardware. I think the same will happen with VR. Its likely that within a few generations the technology will catch up to the requirement and at that point it will become a necessity.

 

I don't think this type of VR will replace the big screen. I am sure OR helmet cannot be worn too long time... is just unconfortable among other drawbacks.

 

While it will be nice to use OR, this one will simply not have the practical side of an monitor.

 

In my point of view, VR will have an important impact on such sims when the holodecks will be mature enough. Until then, VR will be just for fun.

[TOYKILLA]

I think the Oculus Rift will be the best Immersion for Flightsims ever and at the moment im using a 40" TripleScreen Setup Powered by GeForce Titan.

[Chivas]

Being competitive is a good point. It will be interesting to see how competitive people can still be using consumer VR products. It could be a problem with initial consumer versions, but fade away as the hardware improves. Nobody was more competitive than I, but I'm finding age has diminished that urge. Now I believe I would much prefer the far superior feeling of flight that VR provides, than any competitive edge a monitor "might" provide. Considering the vast majority of todays flight simmers, and the new ones brought to the genre by the VR experience won't be hardcore competitive online players. Most will be flying against relatively easy AI opponents that have icons enabled.

 

My hotas system, and voice recognition software will provide hundreds of inputs, far more inputs than I will ever use for WW2 sims, so I won't need to see my Hotas or keyboard to fly. The feeling of presences/immersion will far out-way any drawbacks the first consumer versions might have, for most people.

[zaelu]

Surely a VR system is more comfortable than a cockpit (I had a pit). It fits every plane and when you get it off... spoof!

 

The VR systems will get smaller and lighter that's for sure. Maybe it will get wireless too.

 

Heck... long hair is less comfortable than short hair :D

[KaspeR32]

I have a question for people that have tried DCS with DK1. If you enable cockpit shadows, are they not rendered properly in 3D as of right now?

 

Also, anyone have luck with getting an AMD card to work with the Rift yet?

[ReviZorro]

I have a question for people that have tried DCS with DK1. If you enable cockpit shadows, are they not rendered properly in 3D as of right now?...

Confirm - they not rendered properly. Light sources are different for each eye.

I turn off cockpit shadows.

[Chivas]

Presumably the EDGE graphic engine and DK2 support will eliminate some of the issues that people are experiencing with the DK1. Not to say there won't be issues for atleast a year after the CV1 consumer release.

[cichlidfan]

[metalnwood]

I just received an email from oculus to check my details as they are shipping soon.. Hopefully that means I am near the front lol.

[tobaschi]

I just received an email from oculus to check my details as they are shipping soon.. Hopefully that means I am near the front lol.

 

this one?

 

 

This email is being sent to all developers with pending pre-orders for the Oculus Rift Development Kit 2 and is not an indication of your specific order status.

 

Hi JohnDoh,

 

We are preparing to start shipping the new Oculus Rift Development Kit 2. Please take a moment to update your billing and shipping information on the Order Management page: https://www.oculusvr.com/sales/.

 

Incomplete information or errors with your payment information or shipping address will cause shipping delays.

 

For people that purchased using credit cards, we have already charged a $50 deposit. We will charge the remaining balance to the original credit card shortly before we ship your DK2. If we are unable to charge the credit card on file, you will receive an email notification, but your order will be delayed until we can successfully complete the transaction.

 

For people that purchased using PayPal, their policy requires us to charge the full amount at the point of sale, so you’re all set. Just confirm your address and you’ll receive your kit.

 

To check on your order information and status:

Go to https://www.oculusvr.com/sales/

Enter the email address you used when originally placing your order

Check your email for a link to a page with your order information

Verify or update your shipping address

Verify or update your payment instrument

 

Thanks,

Oculus VR

 

[Device6]

I just received an email from oculus to check my details as they are shipping soon.. Hopefully that means I am near the front lol.

Hi there, just discovered this thread about Oculus Rift, have a couple of questions.

I want to order the toy on Oculus website, but in the Agreement, it says the kit is for developer and not for consumer product, what does that mean? It was in the Pre-order page.

 

Another question is that I see a great number of videos on Youtube showing people using the toy, and notice that the screen on their monitor is divided into 2 view I presume they represent the left and right eyes, is that what I will see when wearing the Oculus ?

 

Also, I wear spectacles, do I take off my glasses before putting on the Oculus, or the toy has space to accommodate my glasses as well?

 

Last one, I saw another video on Youtube that a chap playing DCS Huey with Oculus, he remarked that Oculus reduces the game resolution, I certainly wish that will not be the case with DCS World, cause the game is so beautiful at 1680/1050.

[Device6]

this one?

 

Hi there,

 

I m working and living in HK at the moment, how much would be the shipment charges and options?