112th_Rossi Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 If Wags said that they had scrapped the current iteration of the multiplayer code and are starting from scratch that would be fine with me. No point keeping going with something if it's not suitable in the long term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stacker Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 Why dont cut the amount of data? for example, just model and calculate the trajectory for 1 of 10 bullets in a burts of any MG, then in impact point make damage calculations about the full burst with dispersion. The problem I see with this is that you'd then start to lose fidelity - from your point of view you were sure you had made a hit but from the other opponents point of view you had a miss due the reduced amount of information passed over. I'm sure the dev's already have a lot of optmisation tricks they are using but as Wag's says, the sheer increase in the volume of data is causing stability issues. I'm wondering if, as an interim position, they could release a filtered version of MP - i.e. restrict the theatre to only allow a subset of similar modules to work together (e.g. A10/KA's + AI or FC3 + AI) rather than try to mix the whole lot together. i7-4790K@4.7GHz : EVGA 1070 SC : 16GB Corsair Vengence Pro : 2xEVO 840 SSD : EVGA 850W PSU : CORSAIR H100i Cooler : ASUS Z97-AR MB : CORSAIR OBSIDIAN 750D FULL TOWER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadTommy Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 I'd prefer to wait another 6 months for a stable 1.2.3 than have a unstable one released tomorrow. 1 i5-3570K @ 4.5 Ghz, Asus P8Z77-V, 8 GB DDR3, 1.5GB GTX 480 (EVGA, superclocked), SSD, 2 x 1680x1050, x-fi extreme music. TM Warthog, Saitek combat pro pedals, TrackIR 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Pyro Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 Really? You would wait for the better Su27 model any longer? In my opinion they should toss out at least the model and if already finished the 3d pits, a lot of us are eager to fly the su but dont like close formationflying with the actual model. And modding is not really an option with the patch around the corner. [sIGPIC]http://forums.eagle.ru/signaturepics/sigpic70340_1.gif[/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Pyro Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 I'm wondering if, as an interim position, they could release a filtered version of MP - i.e. restrict the theatre to only allow a subset of similar modules to work together (e.g. A10/KA's + AI or FC3 + AI) rather than try to mix the whole lot together. The worst thing they could do. This idea smacks directly in the faces of almost all squadrons out there. The release of Fc3, merging A10 with FC and BS was most important event for the whole DCS World in terms of squadronbased multiplayer so far. A rollback would cause an uproar for shure. [sIGPIC]http://forums.eagle.ru/signaturepics/sigpic70340_1.gif[/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
71st_Mastiff Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 Well, they have very smart software engineers working the problem, so I can wait. You have my permission to take the time needed. " any failure you meet, is never a defeat; merely a set up for a greater come back, " W Forbes "Success is not final, failure is not fatal, it is the courage to continue that counts," Winston Churchill " He who never changes his mind, never changes anything," MSI z690MPG DDR4 || i914900k|| ddr4-64gb PC3200 || MSI RTX 4070Ti|Game1300w|Win10x64| |turtle beach elite pro 5.1|| ViRpiL,T50cm2|| MFG Crosswinds|| VT50CM-plus rotor Throttle || G10 RGB EVGA Keyboard/MouseLogitech || PiMax Crystal VR || 32 Samsung|| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadTommy Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 Really? You would wait for the better Su27 model any longer? In my opinion they should toss out at least the model and if already finished the 3d pits, a lot of us are eager to fly the su but dont like close formationflying with the actual model. And modding is not really an option with the patch around the corner. I see little point of having a shiny new model and other content if the game keeps crashing. Prefer to wait for a stable release. There are other flight sims & hobbies i enjoy that can fill the gap. I've not played for a couple of months, I find extended breaks greatly enhances my enjoyment when i do come back to play. So selflessly, yes, a few more months is fine with me :P Obviously it would be nice if it was all working and they could release now.. i5-3570K @ 4.5 Ghz, Asus P8Z77-V, 8 GB DDR3, 1.5GB GTX 480 (EVGA, superclocked), SSD, 2 x 1680x1050, x-fi extreme music. TM Warthog, Saitek combat pro pedals, TrackIR 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badger66 Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 I havent played the game much in over 4 weeks ..... just sick to death of waiting for a decent game to be played . I know its coming , but so is the big asteroid !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snoopy Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 I havent played the game.... That's why it crashes...you called it a game ;) :D :lol: v303d Fighter Group Discord | Virtual 303d Fighter Group Website | v303rd Fighter Group Twitter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Pyro Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 Crashes occure to some more frequent than to others. So don't miss the fact that the're enough people who can spent various hours flying without getting disconnected so dont drive this multiplayer is implayable thing too far. Otherwise one could think that there is no activity at all and that would be far away from reality. Dont get me wrong, i highly support the efforts of increasing stability, providing dedicated server files for win and unix and reducing lags/warps when multiple missiles are launched but i dislike the idea of keeping non multiplayerrelated content in favour of ab big major release. Maybe cooking the MP Code anew parallel to the other gamechanges especially if they are not related to eachother, would be a nice step (at least if it is possible to exclude these things and develope them seperately) [sIGPIC]http://forums.eagle.ru/signaturepics/sigpic70340_1.gif[/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dejjvid Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 The last thing you wanna do in a monster project is to implement small snippets of improved code into untested code and release. IMHO this was tested with 1.2.2 and we got like 10 hot fixes in a week if you remember ;) Let them test the whole build and let other companies do the copy paste patching ;) i7 8700K | GTX 1080 Ti | 32GB RAM | 500GB M.2 SSD | TIR5 w/ Trackclip Pro | TM Hotas Warthog | Saitek Pro Flight Rudder [sigpic]http://www.132virtualwing.org[/sigpic] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steel Jaw Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 No hurry to get it right ED. "You see, IronHand is my thing" My specs: W10 Pro, I5/11600K o/c to 4800 @1.32v, 64 GB 3200 XML RAM, ASUS RTX3060ti/8GB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotorhead Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 I'd prefer to wait another 6 months for a stable 1.2.3 than have a unstable one released tomorrow. Well there are 2 choices. We can wait some time for a stable release, or ED can release a broken one now, and then we will have to wait for a working one anyways... So i guess it's fine for ED to take their time and do it right. Only thing I'm not happy about - there are other bugs in 1.2.2 (especially that G940 one!!! :furious:), which won't get fixed until ED makes multiplayer work well. For SP folks out there (like me), it means they have to wait for stable MP to fix their bugs, even if they don't need it. And I'm really not willing to wait 6 more months for fixed FFB... But at least we know that ED is doing their best. I really appreciate their frequent updates during last few weeks. Let's hope that everything will go well and we'll see 1.2.3 as soon as possible! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadTommy Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 Well there are 2 choices. We can wait some time for a stable release, or ED can release a broken one now, and then we will have to wait for a working one anyways... So i guess it's fine for ED to take their time and do it right. Only thing I'm not happy about - there are other bugs in 1.2.2 (especially that G940 one!!! :furious:), which won't get fixed until ED makes multiplayer work well. For SP folks out there (like me), it means they have to wait for stable MP to fix their bugs, even if they don't need it. And I'm really not willing to wait 6 more months for fixed FFB... But at least we know that ED is doing their best. I really appreciate their frequent updates during last few weeks. Let's hope that everything will go well and we'll see 1.2.3 as soon as possible! I agree, if elements that are broke and have been fixed can be pushed out via the autoupdate independently of the rest of the patch they should be. I can only guess releasing the patch piece meal might be less efficient in terms of EDs development time. But that is just a guess. There must be a logical reason. i5-3570K @ 4.5 Ghz, Asus P8Z77-V, 8 GB DDR3, 1.5GB GTX 480 (EVGA, superclocked), SSD, 2 x 1680x1050, x-fi extreme music. TM Warthog, Saitek combat pro pedals, TrackIR 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGTharos Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 ^^^^ That is correct. It can be a bit of a management nightmare with complex code. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billeinstein Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 (edited) It's a quite similar case when the IL2 was at 4.09 MOD packs. There was a check runtime error problem: the sever with CRT ON will reject any clients after someone performed a bailing out in it. This problem was finally solved after years in the 4.10.1. Just a class error was behind it. Wish do not have to wait too long for this. Edited February 5, 2013 by billeinstein [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotorhead Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 I agree, if elements that are broke and have been fixed can be pushed out via the autoupdate independently of the rest of the patch they should be. I can only guess releasing the patch piece meal might be less efficient in terms of EDs development time. But that is just a guess. There must be a logical reason. Exactly, fixing one small broken thing might possibly break an other working one. Therefore, it's surely better to release them all in one huge bunch, tested and solid as a whole. I'm sure that ED has their good reasons to do what they do, but you know what I meant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven68 Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 Exactly, fixing one small broken thing might possibly break an other working one. Therefore, it's surely better to release them all in one huge bunch, tested and solid as a whole. To me there is no guarantee either way. You can sometimes test out the wazoo and still there will be a segment of folks that will encounter a problem somewhere. I am in no way implying not to test. Just apply the KAIZEN approach. :D Intel i5-9600K @ 3.7GHz Gigabyte Z370XP SLI Mobo G.SKILL Ripjaws V Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin DDR4 GIGABYTE GeForce RTX 2070 8GB 256-Bit GDDR6(Assume the latest driver version) Thermaltake Water 3.0 Certified Liquid Cooling System Windows 10 Professional Oculus Rift-S /TrackIR 5 in case VR dies Thrustmaster HOTAS Warthog w/ Thrustmaster T-Flight Rudder Pedals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
112th_Rossi Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 What can go wrong, will go wrong. Nothing is more true in software development :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rrohde Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 What I don't understand -- they're talking about netcode is delaying the update, however, why does this affect the delay of the new content, such as the SU-27, etc? To me, the underlying netcode should not affect the additional new content that most offline flyers are so eagerly awaiting... PC: AMD Ryzen 9 5950X | MSI Suprim GeForce 3090 TI | ASUS Prime X570-P | 128GB DDR4 3600 RAM | 2TB Samsung 870 EVO SSD | Win10 Pro 64bit Gear: HP Reverb G2 | JetPad FSE | VKB Gunfighter Pro Mk.III w/ MCG Ultimate VKBcontrollers.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thearies Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 What I don't understand -- they're talking about netcode is delaying the update, however, why does this affect the delay of the new content, such as the SU-27, etc? To me, the underlying netcode should not affect the additional new content that most offline flyers are so eagerly awaiting... ...absolutely, i could live with a online beta, cause i need a AI sandbox with toys :pilotfly: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cp Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 What I don't understand -- they're talking about netcode is delaying the update, however, why does this affect the delay of the new content, such as the SU-27, etc? To me, the underlying netcode should not affect the additional new content that most offline flyers are so eagerly awaiting... Because when you develop software updates you tend to have a feature freeze some time before release, which means you stop adding more features and content in to that version and work solely on ironing out all the bugs. Anything new that is developed whilst the bug testing/fixing is being done is put into the next version instead. So, anything they develop and get working whilst they fix 1.2.3 you'll first see in 1.2.4. - I'm getting a bit anxious waiting for the update myself, but I'm glad ED has grabbed the bull by its horns and decided to thoroughly fix the mp experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven68 Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 Because when you develop software updates you tend to have a feature freeze some time before release, which means you stop adding more features and content in to that version and work solely on ironing out all the bugs. Anything new that is developed whilst the bug testing/fixing is being done is put into the next version instead. So, anything they develop and get working whilst they fix 1.2.3 you'll first see in 1.2.4. Good point Cp. Feature creep can create additional problems when Matt has already said the main goal is to iron out MP code. That is their focus and accounting for a new feature or content at the moment is a distraction. I'm like yourself and other fans anxiously awaiting and its hard pill to swallow, but necessary. Intel i5-9600K @ 3.7GHz Gigabyte Z370XP SLI Mobo G.SKILL Ripjaws V Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin DDR4 GIGABYTE GeForce RTX 2070 8GB 256-Bit GDDR6(Assume the latest driver version) Thermaltake Water 3.0 Certified Liquid Cooling System Windows 10 Professional Oculus Rift-S /TrackIR 5 in case VR dies Thrustmaster HOTAS Warthog w/ Thrustmaster T-Flight Rudder Pedals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver_Dragon Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 I think not create new content is a distraction, on the contrary, if you do not create new content would be losing a significant amount of resources that ED can not afford. This must be a planning, and go creating new functionality, although this remains secluded by requirements or problems. The day we stop making something ED pair DCS: W, this will be closed forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ApoNOOB Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 I don't see how 1.2.3 can be less stable than the current build... :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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