Next aircraft speculation

[Krupi]

I would be a little disappointed if it was a Viggen however I am sure it will be great to fly!

[Gargoil]

I would be a little disappointed if it was a Viggen however I am sure it will be great to fly!

 

I agree. It is a nice plane but far from "jaw dropping" as Cobra put it. I sincerely hope it's not the viggen.

[Skjold]

Radbes and Skjold, have you ever heard the expression "En svensk tiger" ?

 

That wouldn't really apply to us now would it? We have no responsability to keep quiet, on the contrary we are encouraged to speculate and to find and analyse clues. When this post was actually written i don't think it meant anything but together with the clues that has been released plus some other stuff if you put two and two together you get an answer. It's not like i wasnt 99.9 % sure it was the Viggen anyway before, for me it hasn't changed anything.

 

If anybody is wondering: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/En_svensk_tiger

 

The only real question now is what variant:

 

• Early era interceptor: AIM-9L's and Skyflash
  
• Late era interceptor: AIM-9L's and AIM-120B. (Not very likely)
  
• Early era ground pounder: Dumb bombs, rockets, RB-04 anti-ship missiles, RB-05 "joystick guided" ASM, AIM-4, AIM-9B capability.
  
• Mid era ground pounder: ^ plus RB-05 replaced with Mavericks and added AIM-9P capability.
  
• Late era ground pounder: Added BK-90 standoff cluster bomb and RBS-15 anti-ship capability, better RWR, capability of carrying 6 AIM-9's as opposed to 2.
  

Edited September 26, 2015 by Skjold

[Dahlbeck]

I just realised that the guy (on the Swedish forum) was talking about "our Viggens", as in there being more than one of them.

 

Maybe, like is the case with the Tomcat, they are doing more than one version. If we're getting both the AJ, the JA and maybe even the AJS, that would indeed be jaw dropping.

 

Getting both serious sea and ground strike capability as well as mutiple air target engagement capability with Sky Flash would make it a bunch of interesting platforms in the current DCS World environment.

[-Flo-]

You guys clearly don't know what's good :D

I'd love to see a Viggen module, though the model could be made as a non-flyable model for a theatre?

Edited September 26, 2015 by -Flo-

[BlackLion213]

I agree. It is a nice plane but far from "jaw dropping" as Cobra put it. I sincerely hope it's not the viggen.

 

I wouldn't judge the experience of a Viggen module with a custom theater till you try it. Allow me to refer you to a lovely allegory on the topic: "Green Eggs and Ham". :)

 

Man, what would we do without Google Translate? :thumbup:

 

The current state of tech is pretty amazing, all these handy features that people dreamed about and tried to do 20-30 years ago are now readily available.

 

And luckily, with DCS and all of these modules, it's also true for flight sims aw well!

 

-Nick

[Skjold]

I wouldn't judge the experience of a Viggen module with a custom theater till you try it. Allow me to refer you to a lovely allegory on the topic: "Green Eggs and Ham". :)

 

Man, what would we do without Google Translate? :thumbup:

 

The current state of tech is pretty amazing, all these handy features that people dreamed about and tried to do 20-30 years ago are now readily available.

 

And luckily, with DCS and all of these modules, it's also true for flight sims aw well!

 

-Nick

 

Glad to see an American somewhat interested in the Viggen, it may not have the best combat record (or any at all) but it was an instrumental aircraft of the cold war that intercepted more Soviet planes and ships then most people can imagine.

 

Lets just say the Baltic Sea was "fairly" active in the cold war.

[Dudikoff]

Sooooo, it's pretty much confirmed then?

 

It was pretty much so ever since the Rb04 hint was dropped. IMHO, Viggen with an accompanying theater (which I guess should include some vehicles) will be pretty cool. Late Cold War FTW :)

Edited September 26, 2015 by Dudikoff

[Foxbeard]

I really hope it is not the viggen. It might be interesting flying this bird for couple of hours, but I would never spend 60 $ for a module like that. I can understand that it might be easier for developers to get a license for a plane like that, but honestly, aren't there so many other birds on the list people are really waiting for? F-15E, F-16, F-4E...?

[Skjold]

I really hope it is not the viggen. It might be interesting flying this bird for couple of hours, but I would never spend 60 $ for a module like that. I can understand that it might be easier for developers to get a license for a plane like that, but honestly, aren't there so many other birds on the list people are really waiting for? F-15E, F-16, F-4E...?

 

First of all, let me stress the fact that despite me being a swede and that Viggen is my favourite plane of all time due to me seeing it growing up alot i would want F-16C and F-15E MORE then a Viggen in DCS, and i would equally buy a F-4E with functioning multi-seat with no doubt.

 

Viggen is equal or superior in capability to an F-4E, while the F-4E holds the multi-role card better. Viggen is not multi-role at all. Viggen is in many ways an even better opponent to a MiG-21Bis, becouse they were stationed in the same area (Baltic Sea) during the same timeframe. The only F-4's intercepting MiG-21Bis was West German ones which still did less interceptions over the Baltic then we did, becouse well they were mostly focused on their own frontier with DDR.

 

F-16C and F-15E is both proper multi-roles with very advanced systems akin to A-10C and is a huge undertaking for any developer. I think the first true multi-role we will see is ED's F/A-18C (which im really looking forward too)

[Dappman]

I agree. It is a nice plane but far from "jaw dropping" as Cobra put it. I sincerely hope it's not the viggen.

 

The jaw dropping part might be that they have more than the 2 aircraft to announce. Cobra did say a long time ago that after project "A, B, and C" they have other aircraft in earlier stages of development. Project B and C are supposed to come out before the F14 and knowing LN who knows how much they could have done to the other ones by now.

 

"Currently we have three aircraft in advanced states of development, with a few more in mixed, but primarily earlier stages."

Edited September 26, 2015 by Dappman

[SpeedStick]

Thank you Skjold for putting some reason back in to this thread.

+rep

[lokodehortaleza]

Since LN stated they are including fitting theatres with their modules, i really hope it's a Viggen. Not only it's a unique and interesting aircraft, having a chunk of Scandinavia to fly in would be a blast! Lots of interesting Cold War mission possibilities and breathtakingly beautiful terrain.

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

We Americans are getting a Leatherneck treatment of the F-14, we've had the stellar Falcon 4.0, Jane's F/A-18, and A-10C as well as UH-1H here in DCS.

 

The Russians and numerous other nations got the Leatherneck treatment with the MiG-21, the fantastic Flanker 2.0/2.5, and Ka-50 along with the Hip here in DCS.

 

Euros get.. the poorly aged Eurofighter Typhoon by DID. Though it had some cool concepts, like watching the war unfold in real time. That was cool.

 

Point is, between Mirage 2000-C and a possible Viggen, Eurofans could use the love.

[BlackLion213]

Glad to see an American somewhat interested in the Viggen, it may not have the best combat record (or any at all) but it was an instrumental aircraft of the cold war that intercepted more Soviet planes and ships then most people can imagine.

 

Lets just say the Baltic Sea was "fairly" active in the cold war.

 

I do like the Viggen, though until these LNS hints started to materialize it wasn't on my internal list of "DCS must haves". However, it's really interesting design and more importantly - DCS needs variety. And I mean real variety, the Viggen offers that compared to the classic USAF/USN/VVS aircraft that come to mind when someone thinks of a "Digital Combat Simulator".

 

DCS offers an unprecedented opportunity to see what it was like to fly many different aircraft, the level of realism really gives the player insights into the airplanes real personality. With the opportunity, should we choose to model a gaggle of really similar aircraft from the 1 or 2 countries?

 

Here comes the part where I get burned as an American Aviation Heretic - with the F/A-18C coming to DCS, is there much to gain from an F-16C module? I'm sure many would say YES!!! But these two aircraft are contemporaries with similar sensors, similar performance (F-16 is higher performance actually, but less so when loaded for a real tasks), similar FBW characteristics, similar available weapons, similar roles, etc. Many would probably choose one over another instead of choosing to have both (it would come down to USAF vs USN in terms of interest).

 

On the same token, I LOVE the F-15E. But if the F-14B gets LANTIRN, then F-15E doesn't bring much new capability to DCS. I want the F-15E, but a lot of other aircraft could expand my scope of experience much more.

 

So, I'm glad that the 3rd parties are bringing the Mirage 2000 and Viggen (? until truly official) over the F-16C.

 

The final point is the business side. The F/A-18C and F-14A/B will probably be the most popular modules in DCS history, but if someone did an F-16C and F-15E module now - many would choose between the options instead of buying all of them. Hence, less return on investment for the developers very hard work. By choosing a wide variety of subject matters in timeframe, role, and design, there is less cross competition among modules - that is good for business.

 

But if someone does the F-16C and F-15E module a year or two after the Hornet and Tomcat - sales will be much better. ;)

 

My 2 cents, but right now DCS seems to be serving the interests of a lot of different people. A wise decision even if some scratch their head as to why a seemingly obscure aircraft was chosen over "the most popular aircraft in history" - of which there are many, how ironic! :)

 

-Nick

Edited September 26, 2015 by BlackLion213

[Fracture]

Besides the Viggen which has been heavily hinted at, the other plane could be an A-4.

 

VMA-214 :check

Ground mapping and targeting radar :check

[LegoHeli]

Since some people dont seem to be in favour of a Viggen because it's not 'famous' or reknown:

 

How many people here would ever have wished for a Ka-50 for DCS? How many people here really knew about it before it was made as the first DCS module?

 

Now let me ask again - how many people here absolutely love it because they learned about it through DCS through learning to fly it and use it properly?

 

As a Dane I would LOVE the Viggen, it made my head ring for a whole day at an airshow in 2001, but I understand it's not a famous aircraft, at least not on the level of the F-14 or any of the big WWII fighters - but that does not mean it's a bad choice for DCS. Its a multirole eurocanard, the original eurocanard. It's loud, it's fast, it's mean as hell, and gives new options since I assume the STOL capabilities would be part of the module if it's really a Viggen.

 

It's not about what the individual wants in DCS development, that really, REALLY has to be stressed. Because if a dev only develops what others want instead of developing aircraft they themselves are passionate about, quality will suffer. And of course a partially Swedish dev team will want a Swedish aircraft.

 

Lansen/Tunnan? Would fit well with the MiG-15 and F-86F, but probably not popular or interesting enough to sell well

Draken? Probably too old and limited in application

Viggen? Fits in with the F-14 in timeframe, known for getting a lock on SR-71, interesting capabilities

Gripen? Probably too classified to be good and would suffer a lot from competition from the Eurofighter (just like in real life)

[WinterH]

BlackLion has basically outlined my line of thought as well. Only thing I may slightly object is, F-15E is still more than F-14 with LANTIRN but I digress :).

 

Viggen would really be a great addition and possibility of having 2 or perhaps even more versions would be really great. Also, in a 80s context, AJS-37 version would be quite the multirole jet. Gorund attack capability including precision options and in a pinch, some air combat capability with 6 all aspect missiles. Not mention some of the most advanced avionics for it's day, which could arguably still be considered quite servicable today.

 

I am normally enamoured with Soviet and Russian aircraft but in case of MiG-23 vs Viggen, if I have to speak objectively, Viggen is more interesting however you look at it.

[Foxbeard]

Sorry guys, but my opinion is that the must have list of airplanes should be fulfilled first before working in exotic planes. And from a business point of view, I think this would make sense as well. Everybody would buy a F-16 or 15E module just because these evergreens are must haves no matter if someone prefers navy or air force ops.

 

Also, I am wondering if the teasing of announcements like this really makes sense from a marketing point of view. As you can see in this thread, lots if people have different hopes which will end in disappointments no matter which plane it's gonna be in the end. If the new project just would have been announced, everybody would just accept it without these what if questions. But that is only my opinion.

[Toten]

I had a Matchbox Viggen when I was a child and always loved that aircraft. With that and knowing the superior product that Leatherneck offers I would buy it first day.

[Stratos]

I have hard times thinking that a Viggen selling at 50$ will be a bestseller. With limited time to learn a DCS level aircraft, the really exotic Viggen will not satisfy a lot of customers including myself. Don't get me wrong but is learning a different way of doing the same things.

Edited September 26, 2015 by Stratos

[BlackLion213]

BlackLion has basically outlined my line of thought as well. Only thing I may slightly object is, F-15E is still more than F-14 with LANTIRN but I digress :).

 

Yeah, the F-15E offers some additional capabilities, but I'm heavily biased towards to the Tomcat so take some of that with a grain of salt. Also, in the Tomcat's favor 8" is a lot better than 6"....with regards to MFDs. ;)

 

The F-15E is actually my favorite USAF jet, by quite a lot. It's remarkable combination of power, payload, and capability - arguably the best multi-role aircraft in the world (currently in service at least ;) - you know, excluding the F-14D :D ).

 

 

Sorry guys, but my opinion is that the must have list of airplanes should be fulfilled first before working in exotic planes. And from a business point of view, I think this would make sense as well. Everybody would buy a F-16 or 15E module just because these evergreens are must haves no matter if someone prefers navy or air force ops.

 

Well, I suppose I'm an exception. Of the US 4th Gen fighters: F-14A/B/D, F/A-18A/C, F-16C, F-15C, and F-15E - if all were full DCS modules I would buy F-14, F/A-18C, and F-15E. It's hard to be proficient with numerous, highly complex modules, so I would pick a few favorites and use those for US scenarios. I prefer USN stuff, hence I would buy those modules plus the F-15E.

 

So for me, if I owned the above mentioned modules and new stuff came up for sale; I would buy things like the Viggen, MiG-23, P-38, F4U, DH Vampire, and P-47D over the F-16C. I'm interested in aviation across a broad time period and nationalities. Otherwise the experience is too similar - here I am guiding an LGB with my LANTIRN...I mean litening pod in the F-16...no wait this is the F-15E...no actually it's the Hornet...I got to stop drinking before DCS! ;)

 

Plus, for those who are not americans (what do you guess - Americans are probably ~15-20% of the DCS user base?) euro aircraft like the Mirage and Viggen are evergreens.

 

Anyway, we can debate all we want, but it's up to the developers to choose. The module is always much better when the developer REALLY cares about the project - that leads to the best outcome irrespective of the subject.

 

-Nick

[didilman]

LN september is almost over u can announce the mig-23 now!!! :)

[SpeedStick]

Finally, some people making some sense in here.

Getting kinda tireing with all the mig-23 whining.

Don't get me wrong. If it is a mig23 I'll buy it. The mig-21 is my favourite plane in DCS right now and I learned to love it through LNS and I have no doubt that a newer one would also be awesome.

No need to repeat what you guys so logically and beautifully wrote on the previous page.

[Sporg]

I'd like to add, as a counterargument to those who thinks we need "popular" planes:

 

When the Mig-21 came out, I thought: "What?!".

"What he heck would I want a Mig-21 for?" "Boring old, outlived airplane?"

 

Well, as it happens, the Mig-21 turned out to be a popular bird after its release.

How many of you would have voted for Mig-21 before its release?

 

And for me, I not only ended up buying the module, it also taught me a lot about the airplane, and because it was so thoroughly modelled, I ended up actually liking it, and beginning to appreciate its particular qualities.

Who says that is not going to happen with the Viggen?

 

Actually, to be honest, Viggen has not been my favourite before either, I thought it was a big, bulky and ugly airframe.

But guess what? After it started to rumour that LN might release this airplane, I have started to take an interest in its capabilities, and now it is definitely on my must buy list. ;)

 

And at the same time, the speculation about this airplane has led me to see that a Scandinavian theatre based around the Baltic Sea could have lots of possibilities, since it was a highly active cold war area, basically since WW II and up to when the Soviet Union broke down.