More FC3 Style Aircraft?

[Jhuss96]

Before anyone pulls out the pitchforks, allow me to explain:

 

I've seen a lot of complaints about the lack of redfor aircraft due to one reason or another impeding development. Plus I've noticed in most multiplayer servers with an array of full fidelity aircraft to pick from, people typically gravitate towards the F-15, MiGs & SUs for their capabilities. I'm not suggesting adding more FC3 style aircraft to appeal to a more arcade play style, rather to offer more aircraft to chose from and possibly lay the ground work for upgrading FC3 style modules to full fidelity at a later time. Now I don't know much about the coding behind aircraft development so please correct me if I'm not making sense, but the way I see it, adding more aircraft FC3 style could liven up the DCS world a bit and keep players entertained while the aircraft are brought to a more complete sim level.

 

Obviously this is just a thought that crossed my mind & may be infeasible, but I figured there must be a solution to the endless popular aircraft requests (F-16, F-4, F-15E, etc.) plus the redfor side which will be notably lacking with the arrival of the hornet, tomcat & harrier.

[cichlidfan]

It has been suggested many, many times and yet nobody is doing it. So, for whatever the reasons might be, I would not expect anything to change in that regard.

[Joni]

Before anyone pulls out the pitchforks, allow me to explain:

 

I've seen a lot of complaints about the lack of redfor aircraft due to one reason or another impeding development. Plus I've noticed in most multiplayer servers with an array of full fidelity aircraft to pick from, people typically gravitate towards the F-15, MiGs & SUs for their capabilities. I'm not suggesting adding more FC3 style aircraft to appeal to a more arcade play style, rather to offer more aircraft to chose from and possibly lay the ground work for upgrading FC3 style modules to full fidelity at a later time. Now I don't know much about the coding behind aircraft development so please correct me if I'm not making sense, but the way I see it, adding more aircraft FC3 style could liven up the DCS world a bit and keep players entertained while the aircraft are brought to a more complete sim level.

 

Obviously this is just a thought that crossed my mind & may be infeasible, but I figured there must be a solution to the endless popular aircraft requests (F-16, F-4, F-15E, etc.) plus the redfor side which will be notably lacking with the arrival of the hornet, tomcat & harrier.

 

+1

[Northstar98]

Personally, for me it's quality over quantity. I'd rather have a smaller list of really good things, that can be made as immersive, as beautiful and as realistic and close to life as is feasibly possible. Than have a larger selection of aircraft, but to lower standards because that's what FSX/P3D is for. Because no matter how realistic you make it there it will always be sub-par to DCS which simply has the superior flight model etc. Which is what appeals to me the most.

 

I'm also one for getting the old stuff up to the same standard before adding new stuff. (Which meant things like the WW2 asset pack annoyed me because we have so many existing AI vehicles that aren't up to scratch. I mean tanks don't even steer properly, they don't have proper suspension, most are using outdated models, nearly all don't have proper animations for their tracks (aside from maybe the Merkava IV but even that needs some more work). Plus of course the Caucuses map, Normandy was added before it even though it's been in need of attention since at the very least DCS 1.5

 

But yeah I'd rather have quality over quantity and I'd rather the old stuff get sorted out first before adding anything new. Because when you add something new, you've got to support the new stuff and the old stuff doubling the effective long-term workload, when you could just update the old stuff, get that sorted then move onto new stuff. For me I'd be even willing to pay for it similar to the sort-of thing Thirdwire did with it's expansion packs for SF2 only with DCS and it's more an update pack rather than an expansion. If it's a decent enough price then definitely yes I'd go for it.

 

That being said, like you said there's nothing (or shouldn't really be anything) stopping an FC3 level aircraft from becoming the real deal with ASM/PFM so long as it's feasible. (The F-15C and Su-27 already get their PFM/AFM) but the thing is, we already have FC3 aircraft that only really just got improved models (the MiG-29s) the Su-25T still uses a model from Lock-On. Many aircraft don't have AFM/PFM yet such as the Su-33 and the MiG-29 and these aircraft for me have priority over adding additional aircraft. Though I am all for the F/A-18C but now ED will have to support and develop the Hornet and support the old stuff as well. As well as doing all of the other stuff they have to do.

 

All in all, it sounds like a plan but personally, I'd rather have the old stuff updated and quality over quantity. Plus I do not want to slow down DCS 2.5 by one single solitary second. Once the merge happens and all the current stuff gets updated as best as possible, then maybe I'd support adding FC3 level aircraft to be developed on later into the real deal.

[QuiGon]

Personally, for me it's quality over quantity.

Same for me, so I vote against more FC3 aircraft.

[WinterH]

Nope...

[Vitormouraa]

Same, hopefully I will never see FC3 aircraft coming to DCS anymore.

[NeilWillis]

As someone flying a full fidelity module, with all the right quirks and shortfalls, do you think it is reasonable for some arcade junkie to be able to outfly and outperform using a cut down simple flight model heap of crud?

 

That's the last thing DCS World needs. They're trying to raise the bar, not drop it to the lowest common denominator.

 

FC3 standard modules? Not a chance!

[firmek]

...That's the last thing DCS World needs. They're trying to raise the bar, not drop it to the lowest common denominator...

+1. Historically and for the reason how DCS evolved FC had a place. At the moment one of the best think that could happen to DCS is removing or splitting FC modules to a separate simulation. Anyway, NO for more FC like - simplified systems, avionics, flight models modules.

[Automan]

While I would love ED filling gap of missing planes faster, I agree with all the latest opinions here: no more FC3 ac.

Instead, I would prefer a fast update of AI models imported from FC2...a lot of years ago

ie the Phantom

Edited July 4, 2017 by Automan
typo

[tintifaxl]

I'm all for it. Make some iconic airframes (like the F16, F15E, Tornado, Apache) to lure more people to DCS.

[Charly_Owl]

Nope, nope, and nope. I don't have the slightest interest in FC3 aircraft.

[Nero.ger]

also, Many MODs fill exactly this Gap, Ppoducing high quality FC3-Level Planes.

So there is no need for ED to step in, maybe in making modding a bit more easy but they should concentrate thier power on Full fidelity planes and Netcode, Maps etc

[tintifaxl]

The OP Never mentioned ED should do them.

[OnlyforDCS]

As someone flying a full fidelity module, with all the right quirks and shortfalls, do you think it is reasonable for some arcade junkie to be able to outfly and outperform using a cut down simple flight model heap of crud?

 

But they can already do that in the Su33 and the Mig29. (And indeed I've seen these trolls claim that the PFM added to the Su27 is garbage, and they are pushing to keep the Mig29 and Su33 FM simplified)

Edited July 4, 2017 by OnlyforDCS

[Rogue Trooper]

An FC3 AH-64 Apache would be blasphemy, a true offence to what we hold sacred!

 

 

I even had to go out side and flail myself with a chain of iron for putting the mighty Ah-64 in the same sentence as F*3!

Edited July 4, 2017 by Rogue Trooper

[terminator363]

Let's be fair, FC3 aircraft decrease the learning curve for most people getting into the game. I think many people are scared away at how complicated DCS is from a first impression. I wouldn't mind seeing some more red team planes to even out the player balance when the f-18 and f-14 come to release. Possibly having Su-24 or Russian fast movers ED have been having trouble modelling because they are classified etc.

Edited July 4, 2017 by terminator363

[Jhuss96]

The OP Never mentioned ED should do them.

 

This. I wasn't really suggesting that this would fall entirely on ED and I certainly don't want any more delays to DCS 2.5, the hornet, tomcat or harrier. This is merely an observation that could be utilized in the future.

 

For example, I enjoy flying the L-39 and really love the F-5, but in many of the larger multiplayer missions these aircraft are simply torn up by the FC3 aircraft. Now I'm not demanding the game be balanced, it's a simulation and you have to adapt yourself to the situation to use your aircraft effectively. But the number of people who end up defaulting back to FC3 aircraft plus a few polls I've seen on here & r/hoggit gives me the impression that people want modern strike/air superiority fighters. And obviously the development of fully functional aircraft like that takes multiple years. So as I said in the original post, taking on some of the more popular & requested aircraft in a less than full fidelity state with the intention of bringing them up to sim level so we have a bit more to work with in game.

 

Now of course, intentions don't always manifest but I personally think a FC3 F-16 or MiG-23 would be better & closer to what we want than a million threads asking for one that may never come to fruition.

 

And just in case it wasn't clear from the start, I'm not knocking ED or any of the 3rd party devs, I'm extremely grateful for all the hard work they've been putting in, just spitballing an idea (that's why it's in the wishlist thread)

 

Edit: Thanks for all the input thus far folks, it's definitely got me exploring different points of view on the topic.:D:joystick:

[Nate--IRL--]

I would love more FC3 level Aircraft. I'm actually amazed there aren't any new ones.

 

Nate

[probad]

a less than full fidelity state with the intention of bringing them up to sim level

idk why people keep thinking code is always so simply additive. writing a half-baked model doesn't put you half way towards a high fidelity model. odds are you'll end up having to do 150% work because of the inevitable rewrite to accommodate all the new hooks you had left out earlier in the interests of simplification.

[Rogue Trooper]

Let's be fair, FC3 aircraft decrease the learning curve for most people getting into the game. I think many people are scared away at how complicated DCS is from a first impression. I wouldn't mind seeing some more red team planes to even out the player balance when the f-18 and f-14 come to release. Possibly having Su-24 or Russian fast movers ED have been having trouble modelling because they are classified etc.

 

 

Can you imagine an FC3 F-16 instead of a full blown study sim!

Can you imagine the community crying blood for a full blown fully modelled F-16 and to be abated with a reply of "you got an FC3 falcon for now".... that will do for the next few years!

 

 

NO NO NO this will not do!

Choose a hunk a junk airframe that no one wants to be available on FC3!

 

 

NO chopper will be FC3 in DCS! Surely this statement is trooth!

Oh baby Jesus give me strength!

[Buzzles]

idk why people keep thinking code is always so simply additive. writing a half-baked model doesn't put you half way towards a high fidelity model. odds are you'll end up having to do 150% work because of the inevitable rewrite to accommodate all the new hooks you had left out earlier in the interests of simplification.

 

Not only that, but no-one would accept an SFM level FC3 aircraft anymore.

 

Making at least an AFM+, if not a full blown PFM, is quite a bit of work and from my understanding, once you've put that research and development effort in, it's not that much more of a step to go ASM.

[JABO2009]

I'm all for it. Make some iconic airframes (like the F16, F15E, Tornado, Apache) to lure more people to DCS.

 

+1 ..at least for the time beeing...till they come out on full sim depth...

[Windsortheater]

Before anyone pulls out the pitchforks, allow me to explain:

 

I've seen a lot of complaints about the lack of redfor aircraft due to one reason or another impeding development. Plus I've noticed in most multiplayer servers with an array of full fidelity aircraft to pick from, people typically gravitate towards the F-15, MiGs & SUs for their capabilities. I'm not suggesting adding more FC3 style aircraft to appeal to a more arcade play style, rather to offer more aircraft to chose from and possibly lay the ground work for upgrading FC3 style modules to full fidelity at a later time. Now I don't know much about the coding behind aircraft development so please correct me if I'm not making sense, but the way I see it, adding more aircraft FC3 style could liven up the DCS world a bit and keep players entertained while the aircraft are brought to a more complete sim level.

 

Obviously this is just a thought that crossed my mind & may be infeasible, but I figured there must be a solution to the endless popular aircraft requests (F-16, F-4, F-15E, etc.) plus the redfor side which will be notably lacking with the arrival of the hornet, tomcat & harrier.

+1000

 

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