Air to air refueling...

[mvsgas]

[Emmy]

^^^ Trippy ^^^

[Airhunter]

If anything refueling in the Viper will be easier as it's pretty much just flying and holding formation with the docking part being done for you.

[Eldur]

Cant be any worse than the Harrier...

 

 

We don't have a helicopter with a refueling probe yet...

 

 

In DCS is even a bit "simpler" as the basket somewhat "snaps" on the probe whereas IRL you either hit or miss (but you have a few different "cues" you can't really simulate in DCS, i.e. your body feeling the plane)

 

 

 

Generally it's probably a lot easier in RL because the sim lacks both FOV (even in VR) and more importantly, The Holy Butt Meter Of Awesome.

[Zylon]

I started DCS with the Hornet Release and was flying it exclusively since then, so I only know the Probe and Droge system.

A couple weeks ago I started flying the F15c and one of the first things I did, was trying out the Boom refueling system. In my experience it is really easy to learn, since the lights on the tanker show you exactly where you are supposed to be.

Its basically an easier version of formation flying, since you not only see the other plane, but you have another visual cue that aids you in the process.

[m4ti140]

I was wondering about those lights since they're practically invisible from the A-10 when tanking. I was curious if they even worked in DCS.

 

 

Of course they do, otherwise the F-15 wound be rage inducing to refuel.

[m4ti140]

I think that it might be very challenging. But that's the beauty.

 

 

It's actually easier to refuel then the A-10, precisely because you have the lights as a reference instead of the boom and the aircraft silhouette, they're much more precise in guiding you. That+ the FCS - F-16 goes exactly where you point it.

[VampireNZ]

Haven't use the boom in DCS for years - Does the boom operator in DCS actually fly the boom to the receptacle? Also will it 'latch' into the Viper receptacle and pretty much stay attached until released by the pilot, providing they stay reasonably in position ofc.

[Shimmergloom667]

Haven't use the boom in DCS for years - Does the boom operator in DCS actually fly the boom to the receptacle? Also will it 'latch' into the Viper receptacle and pretty much stay attached until released by the pilot, providing they stay reasonably in position ofc.

 

Yes and yes

[D4n]

The Viper also has a refuelling control rates mode which is activated by opening the refuel door which should help to reduce the twitchiness that some aircraft exhibit on the tanker.

 

Is that "refueling control-rates mode" related to auto-trim, adjusting with fuel load? That'd be awesome

[Deano87]

Is that "refueling control-rates mode" related to auto-trim, adjusting with fuel load? That'd be awesome

 

Well the F-16 does that anyway. The refuelling rates is more a softened control response to make precise control easier. Similar to what to does with the gear down.

[Rhinozherous]

Well the F-16 does that anyway. The refuelling rates is more a softened control response to make precise control easier. Similar to what to does with the gear down.

 

Do you guys think this will be simulated? Hope so.

[razo+r]

Well, wouldn't be an accurate simulation of it without this feature, no?

[mvsgas]

Well the F-16 does that anyway. The refuelling rates is more a softened control response to make precise control easier. Similar to what to does with the gear down.

 

There is no auto trim and no refueling rates in the real aircraft. Opening the IFR door switches to takeoff/landing gains, the FLCS pitch axis operates as a pitch rate command system until 10 degrees AOA and a blended pitch rate and AOA command system above 10 degrees AOA. Pitch trim in takeoff/landing gains behaves just like the stick. In takeoff/landing gains, maximum roll rate is fixed at approximately one-half the maximum roll rate available in cruise gains, regardless of AOA, airspeed, or horizontal tail deflection.

[smire666]

That confirms my information from a book. Landing gear / IFR opened reduces the response for apprx. 50%...

[D4n]

Does IFR officially stand for BOTH "instrumental flight rules" AND "in-flight refueling" ? Wouldn't 1 abbreviation for 2 meanings cause misunderstandings?

[VampireNZ]

Does IFR officially stand for BOTH "instrumental flight rules" AND "in-flight refueling" ? Wouldn't 1 abbreviation for 2 meanings cause misunderstandings?

 

There are quite a few shared acronyms in aviation - you just 'decode' it depending on the context it is used in.

 

i.e you don't really fly in In-Flight Refuelling meteorological conditions, or latch open your Instrument Flight Rules door to AAR. :thumbup:

 

Generally all aviation manuals such as -1 etc. have an Abbreviations, Acronyms and Designations list at the front detailing the specific acronyms used in that manual.

 

Yes - there are far too many TLA's in aviation lol. (Three Letter Abbreviation/Acronym).

Edited September 17, 2019 by VampireNZ

[Harlikwin]

There need to be FLA's to disambiguate the TLAs.

[bbrz]

there are far too many TLA's in aviation lol. (Three Letter Abbreviation/Acronym).

Too many TLA's? Any other in aviation than thrust lever angle? LOL

[billeinstein]

There is no auto trim and no refueling rates in the real aircraft. Opening the IFR door switches to takeoff/landing gains, the FLCS pitch axis operates as a pitch rate command system until 10 degrees AOA and a blended pitch rate and AOA command system above 10 degrees AOA. Pitch trim in takeoff/landing gains behaves just like the stick. In takeoff/landing gains, maximum roll rate is fixed at approximately one-half the maximum roll rate available in cruise gains, regardless of AOA, airspeed, or horizontal tail deflection.

 

Hi, for the T.O. gains with IFR door open, I notice there is a 400 knots limit in the Greece blk 50's manual. But it (400 knots limit) does not exist in USAF F-16A manual.

Is this should be modeled in the DCS F-16C?

[mvsgas]

Depends on the Flight Control Computer modeled and its software. AFAIK, most Digital Flight Control Computer (DFLCC, block 40 and above) have several speed limits for different things.

[mvsgas]

I do not think neither of this example would be good for the USAF F-16C circa 2007 after CCIP, for conversation sake.

 

Looking around USAF F-16C block 40/42 after CCIP circa 2011

Lading gear down, atl flaps to extend below 400 knot and IFR door open below 400 knot will maintain Takeoff/landing gains. But keep in mind Flaps extended above 240 will start going up and would be fully retracted by 370 knots. This could incur damage to the flaps, flap Integrated Servo Actuator (ISA) or the flap supports. Also IFR door open or in transition close to or above 400 knot can damage the door hydraulic actuator or mechanism.

 

Also, using HAF F-16C block 50 circa 2003 DFLCC as an example will give a bad base to start with. HAF DFLCC has different Cat I and Cat III limits and looks for different parameter to limit Roll and Yaw. It has TFR which USAF F-16C block 50 does not have. It uses different computers for different thing. Central Air Data Computer (CADC), the Pneumatic Sensor Assembly (PSA) are different. Not sure if the Modular Mission Computer (MMC) in USAF have additional functionality on the Flight control compared to the HAF F-16 with General Avionics Computer (GAC). I do not know if HAF F-16C on that time period have a CARA which also sends info to the DFLCC.

[=Panther=]

Hi, for the T.O. gains with IFR door open, I notice there is a 400 knots limit in the Greece blk 50's manual. But it (400 knots limit) does not exist in USAF F-16A manual.

Is this should be modeled in the DCS F-16C?

 

It does exist in the 16CM-1 which covers the 2007 CCIP Block 50.

[bbrz]

But keep in mind Flaps extended above 240 will start going up and would be fully retracted by 370 knots. This could incur damage to the flaps, flap Integrated Servo Actuator (ISA) or the flap supports.

Since the flaps retract automatically, how can there be any damage, since a 'classic' flap overspeed doesn't occur?

[mvsgas]

They don't retract automatically, the air force pushes them up.