Slightly disappointed by Normandy 2.0 after first impression

[lwalter]

First of all, it's definitely a very nice map with lots of efforts put into it and as of now, it's the largest normandy map and definitely one of the best from any flying combat simulator.

It also run smooth in VR for me, including over Paris or London, which is amazing.

For this first discovery of the Normandy 2.0 map, I was flying around low-level with a Huey.

After all these Normandy maps I've flown over, and after all the hype I read about this one, I was maybe putting the bar too high. Please note that I live in the Paris region, in a place near Versailles on the map, and I've been many times to the Normandy region, especially visiting the D-Day landing beaches. So flying over these places, I knew what I was expecting, and yes, I know this is supposed to represent a WWII map.

The one issue that annoyed me a lot right away is the scaling issue (I think it's an issue) of the churches and the factory chimneys. They're way too large. In an urban area like Paris region, It's impossible to see churches so far away, because they surrounded by other building. I'm not talking about the few cathedrals in this region, but regular churches. Same for factory chimney. They look way to high. I posted a bug on this one.

The urban area around Paris doesn't look very dense. Of course, it wasn't as dense as today, but at least we should see more villages all around Paris. It feels really empty to me.

The famous monuments in Paris (Eiffel Tower, Louvres palace, Notre Dame) are all gorgeous, but I'm missing for example the very visible Sacré Coeur Basilic on top of Montmartre hill.

The landing beaches and "Atlantic wall" fortifications look really nice and the beaches look fine,  but there are too many of these weird big round rocks everywhere on the beaches.

I don't know if the map is supposed to be before the D-Day landing or not and I haven't checked if you could change the date, but I like the idea of some other WWII sims where you can see the map before and after landing (e.g Mulberry harbor in Arromanches).

Again, the Normandy countryside seem a bit too empty: where are all the villages? Where are the German fortifications on the island next to St Vaast la Hougue?

This is just my first impression and I hope I'll enjoy it more after more flights other this map. Once again, it's a very nice map, but in mind, I was expecting at least the same wow effect as Syria map and it wasn't the case so far.

 

[stoop]

57 minutes ago, lwalter said:

but I'm missing for example the very visible Sacré Coeur Basilic on top of Montmartre hill.

That is very much the one I am missing and posted it. It is a great landmark to base some missions around.

[Tinkickef]

I think the map is meant to be just a representation of wartime Normandy, not an actual fully detailed as it was in 1944 terrain.

 

I know what you mean, I was disappointed to see Shanklin and  Osborne House on the Isle of Wight missing, but I guess my expectations were too high.

 

The map is great, the only reservation I have so far is the colour of the trees in sunlight.  Just seems so jarring.

Edited April 23, 2023 by Tinkickef

[Beirut]

Given Ugra's excellent! history with the Syria map, I'm sure Normandy 2 will get solid attention over the next few months. 

 

 

[Barrett_g]

Another vote for Ugra Media.  I have no doubt they will continue to fill out and improve Normandy 2.0.  They’ve really done a great job despite Eagle Dynamics restrictions on the Channel Map area.

It’s a shame Eagle Dynamics has sandbagged the WWII Asset Pack development as well.  We’ve got a really good map and we’re still stuck chasing the same B-17’s and Ju-88 Torpedo bombers around.

You’d think they could have added a B-24, B-25, or a He-111 by now!

[MustangSally]

Hmmmm....early access maybe!

[imacken]

16 hours ago, Beirut said:

Given Ugra's excellent! history with the Syria map, I'm sure Normandy 2 will get solid attention over the next few months. 

I'm afraid I have to disagree. UGRA's customer service is appalling and there are many issues with the Syria map just lying around unresolved despite user pressure.

It's been well over a year since we had a - long promised by UGRA - update on that map.  They still haven't got the kneeboard working in Syria, for goodness sake!

[Beirut]

4 minutes ago, imacken said:

I'm afraid I have to disagree. UGRA's customer service is appalling and there are many issues with the Syria map just lying around unresolved despite user pressure.

It's been well over a year since we had a - long promised by UGRA - update on that map.  They still haven't got the kneeboard working in Syria, for goodness sake!

 

Fair enough. If that's the case... then that's the case.

 

I'm looking at the added content and overall quality of the Syria map. I'm sure Normandy 2 will get significant attention.

[zaelu]

22 hours ago, lwalter said:

The one issue that annoyed me a lot right away is the scaling issue (I think it's an issue) of the churches and the factory chimneys. They're way too large. In an urban area like Paris region, It's impossible to see churches so far away, because they surrounded by other building. I'm not talking about the few cathedrals in this region, but regular churches. Same for factory chimney. They look way to high. I posted a bug on this one.

The urban area around Paris doesn't look very dense. Of course, it wasn't as dense as today, but at least we should see more villages all around Paris. It feels really empty to me.

I think the factories are at a correct size and the rest of the buildings are too small and spacing between buildings looks utterly unrealistic especially since the game can't populate the spaces in-between buildings with all sorts of outhouses and dependencies. Also Cities are totally deserted and this only magnifies the bareness of them. 

On top of this I find the color palette of Normandie 2.0 just as the one in Normandie 1.944 (lol) to be extremely limited and incomplete. Trees and forest are made of a single nuance of green. And looks horrible in my view. I can't understand why color variation on some small textures of trees is so difficult.

[Hayrake YE-ZB]

On 4/23/2023 at 11:29 AM, lwalter said:

First of all, it's definitely a very nice map with lots of efforts put into it and as of now, it's the largest normandy map and definitely one of the best from any flying combat simulator.

It also run smooth in VR for me, including over Paris or London, which is amazing.

…Please note that I live in the Paris region, in a place near Versailles on the map, and I've been many times to the Normandy region, especially visiting the D-Day landing beaches. So flying over these places, I knew what I was expecting, and yes, I know this is supposed to represent a WWII map.

The one issue that annoyed me a lot right away is the scaling issue (I think it's an issue) of the churches and the factory chimneys. They're way too large. In an urban area like Paris region, It's impossible to see churches so far away, because they surrounded by other building. I'm not talking about the few cathedrals in this region, but regular churches. Same for factory chimney. They look way to high. I posted a bug on this one...

The scale of the chimneys does look odd and jarring. The smoke stacks dominate the cities. They prompted me to search for period photographs to see if they were correct, but I’ve not been able to find anything that showed the giant stacks so far.

Did you submit a post in the Bugs and Problems section of this forum or direct to Ugra? 

 

[PLUTON]

First: thanks to Ugra Media for their incredible work, but here is what we can read on the presentation of the map (On the Normandy 2.0 map, the user can see a large number of historically authentic places in the south of England, northern and central France.Among them, the most interesting are the famous Eiffel Tower in Paris, the Palace of Versailles, the Cathedral of Notre-Dame in Paris, the Louvre Museum, as well as the Buckingham Palaces, of Kensington and Westminster and London's Tower Bridge. In total, more than 130 original buildings and structures are reproduced on the map.) but no one finds the Palace of Versailles which I think is one of the most important monuments on a representation like this one.
I hope this castle will be put in a next update. Thank you in advance

[Morat]

On 4/23/2023 at 6:53 PM, Tinkickef said:

 

The map is great, the only reservation I have so far is the colour of the trees in sunlight.  Just seems so jarring.

I have to agree - they do seem very uniform in colour too. Real Trees vary in colour both within themselves and compared to others. The map currently shows all trees of the same species as uniformly of the exact same shade. There needs to be some randomisation/gradients.

Otherwise, I'm blown away by this map!
 

 

[Rex]

On 4/23/2023 at 9:29 AM, lwalter said:

 

This is just my first impression and I hope I'll enjoy it more after more flights other this map. Once again, it's a very nice map, but in mind, I was expecting at least the same wow effect as Syria map and it wasn't the case so far.

 

 

I'd ask you to give it another few hours, because this map is second to none, IMHO.  Granted I might be more picky if they made a map covering my hometown, but it's been a huge pleasant surprise for me personally.

This may also be because Normandy 1 has been my main map for the last 2-3 months, and Normandy 2.0 has improved the quality of my experience to a huge extent ... perhaps more than the average person's.

Remember, DCS maps are their own entities, and they are different from the photorealistic Bing Maps-based stuff from MS.  They're a little more conceptual than detailed down to the meter, and they don't attempt to model each individual building.  Rather, the they model a handful of well-known buildings and fill in the gaps with generic buildings as most users probably care way more about FPS than whether that building downtown has 8 rows of windows instead of the 6 that were modeled. The buildings also need to be explodable.  

You're never going to find your house on a DCS map (unless you live in a Vegas hotel), so I wouldn't really expect to find everything in a certain neighborhood where you would find it in meatspace, and if that's what you're looking for, then yeah, I suppose I get it ... I just would never expect that level of Google-map fidelity from a DCS map.

With that being said, from the POV of someone who has never even been to France, or England, it's more than convincing enough for me, and just as a general map, it's extraordinary ... a damn-near masterpiece if you ask me.

Give it some more time and see if your opinion morphs at all.  I think you'll learn to love this one. 

Edited April 27, 2023 by Rex

[Wdigman]

So I decided to drive around the map in Combined arms. Biggest thing I noticed were no roads in London or Paris, yes there was civilian traffic and all bit no roads just grass that was a funny shade of grey. Also the building textures in Paris and London were very low Quality they don't even look like the screen shots in the promos, the small towns like Baeoux look great and have roads.

Is this an early access issue or is it my RTX 2070, all settings are high. For Combined Arms I lowered the distance objects loaded as to not tax the system so much to no avail.

Overall from the air this map is great and very good performance.

One wish-list Item I will ask for, is at sometime can we get several buildings and factory objects to be used as static objects or armed houses and buildings? The architecture in this map is very unique.

[Nirvi]

47 minutes ago, Wdigman said:

So I decided to drive around the map in Combined arms. Biggest thing I noticed were no roads in London or Paris, yes there was civilian traffic and all bit no roads just grass that was a funny shade of grey. Also the building textures in Paris and London were very low Quality they don't even look like the screen shots in the promos, the small towns like Baeoux look great and have roads.

Is this an early access issue or is it my RTX 2070, all settings are high. For Combined Arms I lowered the distance objects loaded as to not tax the system so much to no avail.

Overall from the air this map is great and very good performance.

One wish-list Item I will ask for, is at sometime can we get several buildings and factory objects to be used as static objects or armed houses and buildings? The architecture in this map is very unique.

Did you bought the upgrade to Normandy 2? If London and Paris has very low quality textures, but Bayeux looks good, it sounds like you didn't bought the upgrade 

[Stanlesuper]

Hi,

I bought this map and I shouldn't.

Trial has expired for me with the Normandy 1 map, so I couldn't test Normandie 2.
Be careful about the graphic rendering of this work: the promotial videos definitly transform reality adding post treatement and cool effects.

The map Has more 3d objects Paris, London, ok why not.., but what happened to the over saturated grass and tree colour of Normandie 1 ?Nothing ! Seriously, I was disapointed by the lack of senvitivity out there. 

Grass and trees represent almost 95% of the map texturing. 

I feel srewed up after buying this map for this reason.

 

We are in 2023, Come one !

 

[Ala13_ManOWar]

I'm sorry mate but if you see no difference in the colours of N2 map it's more probably than not your screen settings fault. It's definitely way better not just in the details and all, but also on that, colours and variety of them, so I'd rather thoroughly check all my graphical settings, either Windows, Graphics card and drivers app, and then in-game settings and in particular gamma. It is different, not just marketing or whatever. If you see a gorgeous map in YT vids and then you don't in yours, it's your fault, I see exactly what pre-view videos showed mate.

[Tinkickef]

11 hours ago, Wdigman said:

So I decided to drive around the map in Combined arms. Biggest thing I noticed were no roads in London or Paris, yes there was civilian traffic and all bit no roads just grass that was a funny shade of grey. Also the building textures in Paris and London were very low Quality they don't even look like the screen shots in the promos, the small towns like Baeoux look great and have roads.

Is this an early access issue or is it my RTX 2070, all settings are high. For Combined Arms I lowered the distance objects loaded as to not tax the system so much to no avail.

Overall from the air this map is great and very good performance.

One wish-list Item I will ask for, is at sometime can we get several buildings and factory objects to be used as static objects or armed houses and buildings? The architecture in this map is very unique.

 

Sounds like you are using the updated Normandy 1 map, not the Normandy 2.  Normandy 1 had low res buildings in the new areas, wheras Normandy 2 has all high res buildings and textures.

[Stanlesuper]

2 hours ago, Ala13_ManOWar said:

I'm sorry mate but if you see no difference in the colours of N2 map it's more probably than not your screen settings fault. It's definitely way better not just in the details and all, but also on that, colours and variety of them, so I'd rather thoroughly check all my graphical settings, either Windows, Graphics card and drivers app, and then in-game settings and in particular gamma. It is different, not just marketing or whatever. If you see a gorgeous map in YT vids and then you don't in yours, it's your fault, I see exactly what pre-view videos showed mate.

Hi, nice to hear.
I will try with another settings (I know very well how to gamma and Reshade...)

I don't give up, but if nothing changes for me I will post a screenshot of which seems to me clearly insufficient.

[imacken]

Do you see Normandy 2 or Normandy 1944 in module manager installed terrains?

[ThorBrasil]

10 minutes ago, imacken said:

Do you see Normandy 2 or Normandy 1944 in module manager installed terrains?

2.0

[Art-J]

Well, truth to be told, although Ugra toned down the psychedelic colours a little in N2, the maps still suffers from very oversaturated greens all around, compared to vastly superior Channel map. Especially in Spring scenery. And since these greens are their "trademark" it seems, I don't think they'll be changed much, if at all.

@Stanlesuper If you're offline player, or don't mind using custom mods, you can always use Ouky's edits as a stopgap solution...

... or wait until Barthek does his retexturing of N2, which has been hinted here:

 

[Wdigman]

15 hours ago, Tinkickef said:

 

Sounds like you are using the updated Normandy 1 map, not the Normandy 2.  Normandy 1 had low res buildings in the new areas, wheras Normandy 2 has all high res buildings and textures.

 

On 4/27/2023 at 8:33 AM, Nirvi said:

Did you bought the upgrade to Normandy 2? If London and Paris has very low quality textures, but Bayeux looks good, it sounds like you didn't bought the upgrade 

That was the problem. Thanks. The buildings are incredible. They modeled balconies!

[imacken]

28 minutes ago, Art-J said:

Well, truth to be told, although Ugra toned down the psychedelic colours a little in N2, the maps still suffers from very oversaturated greens all around, compared to vastly superior Channel map. Especially in Spring scenery. And since these greens are their "trademark" it seems, I don't think they'll be changed much, if at all.

@Stanlesuper If you're offline player, or don't mind using custom mods, you can always use Ouky's edits as a stopgap solution...

... or wait until Barthek does his retexturing of N2, which has been hinted here:

I know it's been discussed a lot over the years, but I have not really had an issue with the greens in Normandy. Could be my fading eyesight, of course!

What would be a good mission to choose to highlight where this is particularly bad?

[AlpineGTA]

Surely the colours you're seeing has a lot to do with your particular monitor or VR headset (whichever you're using) and your settings. Personally, I find the colours are fine, at times in VR it uncannily feels just like I'm flying over the real thing. I think the ground textures of the fields are particularly good, probably the best I've seen on any DCS map.