waiting for resolution RAZBAM Situation Post Archive (will be deleted)

[Rudel_chw]

10 minutes ago, Oban said:

Breaking up with ED? I don't believe it was that simple, as far as Im aware, the developers were not meeting certain standards laid down by ED, and underperformaing, and when you don't meet your contracted employers standards in ANY industry, you're released from contract, or fired, so why should ED be any different?

 

Well, the Hawk section of the forum is now no longer there, but your version doesn't matches my memory: it was the third party the one that suddenly left, not ED kicking them out:

 

https://stormbirds.blog/2018/11/25/veao-ceasing-dcs-world-development/

 

10 minutes ago, Oban said:

...  I'd much rather be the glass half full, and be optimistic...

 

The thing is, would I spend my time making missions for Modules that may not last?  .. or would I spend it on Modules that I might enjoy longer? 

To me the answer is pretty obvious and has nothing to do with being optimistic or not. Once the issue started, I stopped making missions for the Strike Eagle and opted to fly the Viggen instead, it simply made sense.

 

10 minutes ago, Oban said:

I don't believe in cutting off ones nose to spite their face works, because you tend to miss out on a lot of fun that others are enjoying... and I'd much rather have fun, life's too short..

 

Fully agree, life really is too short, we have to enjoy it to the full while we can.

 

10 minutes ago, Oban said:

Seasons Greetings to you and your family Rudel, Feliz Navidad !!

 

Greetings to you too, have a truly happy Xmas alongside your loved ones. 

[BIGNEWY]

Official VEAO information can be found here https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/support/faq/VEAO/

It has no bearing on this dispute however. 

We need to continue to wait for a resolution. 

thank you 

[Lyrode]

12小时前，Ignition说：

How do we know this won't happen again with other 3rd party?, it already happened with VEAO and now with RAZBAM. It may be a cyclic warning from ED to other 3rd parties to produce force with their military product.

So you would like every team and ED to make promise that the products you purchase will be well maintained forever. Can you think of any product on earth that gets this treatment?

Be it windows7 you may purchased in the past, old games that doesn't run well on newest systems, or 3rd party things from for example minecraft store. Or worse, annual call of duty and Battle Field V that is no longer supported because companies wants new things to sell. Face it, everything has an expiry date, written or not. And most businesses fail at last.

By not buying anything, you not only want false commitments, and also affects best teams like HeatBlur who devoted all their profession and did nothing wrong, potentially killing them by cutting sales.

[Nightdare]

14 hours ago, Ignition said:

How do we know this won't happen again with other 3rd party?

 

We don't

So let's go with your suggestion, stop playing and all move to the competitor

I'm sure that will improve the position of 3rd party devs on DCS

 

14 hours ago, Ignition said:

it already happened with VEAO and now with RAZBAM.

 

Different companies, different problems

 

14 hours ago, Ignition said:

It may be a cyclic warning from ED to other 3rd parties to produce force with their military product.

 

Seems you'd love to assign malice to a 'big bad company oppressing the tiny underdogs'

But In the real world, just being big or small says nothing about your morals

Sure, big dogs bite harder, but small dogs more often

 

[Davee]

Not sure if this has been discussed before but, I was thinking of complexities involved in legal disputes when different parts of the world are involved and their different legal systems. How contracts are viewed and handled internationally. I would think that this might compound a timeline between legal teams as these differences are ironed out.

If anyone knows, sure would like to learn more.

Cheers

 

 

[Mizzy]

13 hours ago, Davee said:

Not sure if this has been discussed before but, I was thinking of complexities involved in legal disputes when different parts of the world are involved and their different legal systems. How contracts are viewed and handled internationally. I would think that this might compound a timeline between legal teams as these differences are ironed out.

If anyone knows, sure would like to learn more.

Cheers

 

 

Yes, that is what I was interested in. I assume that the Contracts are pre decided and agreed in which Jurisdiction they fall in case of dispute.

Mizzy 

[Avimimus]

On 12/17/2024 at 4:29 PM, Lyrode said:

So you would like every team and ED to make promise that the products you purchase will be well maintained forever. Can you think of any product on earth that gets this treatment?

Be it windows7 you may purchased in the past, old games that doesn't run well on newest systems, or 3rd party things from for example minecraft store. Or worse, annual call of duty and Battle Field V that is no longer supported because companies wants new things to sell. Face it, everything has an expiry date, written or not. And most businesses fail at last.

By not buying anything, you not only want false commitments, and also affects best teams like HeatBlur who devoted all their profession and did nothing wrong, potentially killing them by cutting sales.

I think it is quite reasonable for people to expect backwards compatibility with patches - at least up until there is a major reworking of the game engine (e.g. the move from LOMAC to DCS). Other developers have managed this. Even most of the content from LOMAC is still here after twenty years.

[av8orDave]

1 hour ago, Avimimus said:

I think it is quite reasonable for people to expect backwards compatibility with patches - at least up until there is a major reworking of the game engine (e.g. the move from LOMAC to DCS). Other developers have managed this. Even most of the content from LOMAC is still here after twenty years.

While I agree, there has already been some "feature regression" within a few modules. The one I have personally seen is that on the AV-8B, the JTAC ATHS system stopped functioning a few months ago and hasn't been fixed. I think it was reported in the AV-8B bugs section that it would be looked at, but so far I haven't seen it addressed. *For those wondering, the ATHS system allows the JTAC to automatically send all of the required info for a 9-line to the AV-8B's CAS page, making it super-easy to select CAS targets.

[Gunnar81]

7 hours ago, av8orDave said:

While I agree, there has already been some "feature regression" within a few modules. The one I have personally seen is that on the AV-8B, the JTAC ATHS system stopped functioning a few months ago and hasn't been fixed. I think it was reported in the AV-8B bugs section that it would be looked at, but so far I haven't seen it addressed. *For those wondering, the ATHS system allows the JTAC to automatically send all of the required info for a 9-line to the AV-8B's CAS page, making it super-easy to select CAS targets.

And to think before this whole mess we were going to get a re-worked Harrier with a 3d model update and finished up systems...... Oh well, life goes on right?

[Glowingheat]

Blimey, this discussion is still rumbling on! 20 pages of speculation and opinion! I guess it keeps it all in one place.

Happy holidays everyone, regardless of your thoughts and opinions about Razbam and ED.

2025 will be a good year, one way or the other.

[Horns]

2 minutes ago, Glowingheat said:

2025 will be a good year, one way or the other.

Do you have an official source on this?! 

Sorry, couldn't resist, for reals all the best to you and yours  

[Glowingheat]

2 minutes ago, Horns said:

Do you have an official source on this?! 

Sorry, couldn't resist, for reals all the best to you and yours  

Yes my brothers, sisters, uncles, son is a friend of the window cleaner at the building opposite Eagle Dynamics who saw a post-it note reflected in the windows he was cleaning, it said simply - 'BOOM!'.

[Horns]

1 hour ago, Glowingheat said:

Yes my brothers, sisters, uncles, son is a friend of the window cleaner at the building opposite Eagle Dynamics who saw a post-it note reflected in the windows he was cleaning, it said simply - 'BOOM!'.

Official enough for me!

[Hyperion35]

I was telling a friend that I was thinking of buying the F-15E module for my birthday tomorrow, as I'd recently got my PC rebuilt and finally running DCS (under Linux, so it took some work).

I looked up the release video on Youtube to show her, and comments led to this thread.  I've worked in software development and in regulatory law, so I understand the many different reasons why stuff could happen and why some things can't be discussed publicly.

But none of this helps me right now.  I just wish that whatever issues are involved could remain behind the scenes in ways that don't affect these sorts of decisions, and that what gets communicated to customers is useful information that we can use to make decisions.  It looks like I won't be getting the F-15E for my birthday, since I have absolutely no clue what, if anything, I will be buying.

I guess I'll look at what's available in the Free Trial group and assume that until I've tried it, I won't buy it.  I'm not saying this out of disrespect or to be insulting, but because I want you guys to understand how these issues affect long-time (pre-DCS: World) customers, people whose first thought on their birthday is "oooh, there's this DCS module I'd wanted..."

[Horns]

6 hours ago, Hyperion35 said:

I was telling a friend that I was thinking of buying the F-15E module for my birthday tomorrow, as I'd recently got my PC rebuilt and finally running DCS (under Linux, so it took some work).

I looked up the release video on Youtube to show her, and comments led to this thread.  I've worked in software development and in regulatory law, so I understand the many different reasons why stuff could happen and why some things can't be discussed publicly.

But none of this helps me right now.  I just wish that whatever issues are involved could remain behind the scenes in ways that don't affect these sorts of decisions, and that what gets communicated to customers is useful information that we can use to make decisions.  It looks like I won't be getting the F-15E for my birthday, since I have absolutely no clue what, if anything, I will be buying.

I guess I'll look at what's available in the Free Trial group and assume that until I've tried it, I won't buy it.  I'm not saying this out of disrespect or to be insulting, but because I want you guys to understand how these issues affect long-time (pre-DCS: World) customers, people whose first thought on their birthday is "oooh, there's this DCS module I'd wanted..."

Hi Hyperion35,

Happy birthday! Kudos for getting DCS working on Linux.

I guess you've probably figured this out, but in case it helps, besides the F-15E, the only other modules that aren't being maintained as normal are the M2K, AV-8B and MiG-19. ED have said they'll do their best to ensure that updates don't break the three mature modules mentioned. The South Atlantic terrain is still being maintained and updated, but it is published by Razbam. Besides the modules mentioned everything else is being actively maintained, so they should be as smooth sailing as ever. I'm speaking as a regular dude, so my word isn't official.

Hope you do find something you like 

[draconus]

9 hours ago, Hyperion35 said:

It looks like I won't be getting the F-15E for my birthday, since I have absolutely no clue what, if anything, I will be buying.

It's your decision of course and no trial option doesn't help either but imho you're doing disservice only to yourself if you really like F-15. Majority of users did not refund it after the fiasco.

[Beirut]

11 hours ago, Hyperion35 said:

I was telling a friend that I was thinking of buying the F-15E module for my birthday tomorrow, as I'd recently got my PC rebuilt and finally running DCS (under Linux, so it took some work).

. . . 

 It looks like I won't be getting the F-15E for my birthday, since I have absolutely no clue what, if anything, I will be buying.

 

 

Even in its awkward state of existence, it's a great module. Enough of it works well enough to make it very enjoyable. I'm not an A2A type, but for A2G it's a beast. It's big, fast, long range, carries a yuuuuge load of bombs, the terrain following radar is great, and the A2G targeting radar is a work of art.

 

All kinds of vaild reasons not to buy it. But if you do buy it, you will enjoy it. 

[Schmidtfire]

 

5 hours ago, draconus said:

It's your decision of course and no trial option doesn't help either but imho you're doing disservice only to yourself if you really like F-15. Majority of users did not refund it after the fiasco.

Steam users were not allowed refunds, so they can't refund  Others had to go through hoops by contacting ED support. 

Many players are still not aware of the fiasco, so refund is not on their minds. There's also players who bought on e-store that are willing to gamble that the situation will somehow work itself out, choosing not to refund.

I think it's worth knowing that buying F-15E is a gamble and the product will most likely never get finished. It's fine taking a risk by buying the F-15E, but calling it a disservice to yourself  for not purchasing during this strained situation is a bit much (in my opinion).  
      

[draconus]

5 hours ago, Schmidtfire said:

I think it's worth knowing that buying F-15E is a gamble and the product will most likely never get finished.

I'm just suggesting to do a research of what the module represents first and buy it for what it is now, not for some uncertain future state.

Edited December 22, 2024 by draconus

[Jayhawk1971]

IMO, the conundrum with the Strike Eagle in particular is not only the uncertain future of the module itself, but also its "place" within the DCS environment. Even if future patches and updates won't break the module.

For SP only players like myself: if it remains frozen in its current state, who's going to bother to develop content for it? I was hoping for a Baltic Dragon campaign for the Strike Eagle, with hopefully other 3rd party creators following suite.

Would it be supported should ED some day release a "Dynamic Campaign"?

And for the MP people: will it remain useful/ competitive in a server environment in the future?

If all you will be able to do with the module is to play the already available handful of SP missions, or fly around the sandbox, I don't know if that would be worth the current $63.99. 

I did buy the SE mostly because I have some sentimental attachment to that aircraft (my very first "sim" experience was Microprose's F-15 Strike Eagle on the C64, followed by all iterations of that product, and culminating with Jane's F-15), and back then there was no indication that the relationship between ED and RB was going to sour.

So far, I'm still in the "holding off on refund, hoping for a reasonably positive outcome" camp. Yet should someone ask me whether or not to purchase that module right now, my advice would be a solid "No!". Certainly not at its current price point.

Edited December 22, 2024 by Jayhawk1971

[Beirut]

1 hour ago, Jayhawk1971 said:

So far, I'm still in the "holding off on refund, hoping for a reasonably positive outcome" camp. Yet should someone ask me whether or not to purchase that module right now, my advice would be a solid "No!". Certainly not at its current price point.

 

I would agree unless the person has a particular obsession with the F15E. If the buyer is just looking for a new toy, then probably skip it and get something else.

 

But if the person is a big Strike Eagle fan - like me! - and wants a great big fast heavy duty ground pounder, there's a lot to be said for the module and enough of it works to make it very enjoyable. 

[Joe1978]

hace 15 horas, Jayhawk1971 dijo:

For SP only players like myself: if it remains frozen in its current state, who's going to bother to develop content for it? I was hoping for a Baltic Dragon campaign for the Strike Eagle, with hopefully other 3rd party creators following suite.

I agree with your point having a plane with "no expectations" doesn´t  encourage content creation (even though there are not many campaigns for RZ material). However, using Baltic Dragon as an example is not ideal, as campaigns for RZ modules have been broken or unupdated years. In the end, you will have two things broken: the module and the campaign.

 

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

22 hours ago, Beirut said:

 

Even in its awkward state of existence, it's a great module. Enough of it works well enough to make it very enjoyable. I'm not an A2A type, but for A2G it's a beast. It's big, fast, long range, carries a yuuuuge load of bombs, the terrain following radar is great, and the A2G targeting radar is a work of art.

 

All kinds of vaild reasons not to buy it. But if you do buy it, you will enjoy it. 

Yes for me it's sort of the opposite: I'm more of an A/A fan than A/G but the Strike Eagle is special to me.  I don't know why... Perhaps it's because Microprose's F-15E series is what got me into simming, but other than that it is indeed a beast. Incredible engines, more fuel capacity than you'll likely ever need with the current size of DCS maps (though that looks to be changing with Afghanistan and Iraq), ... I love it, both the aircraft itself and the module.

[happyhappy]

As things stand now・・・

Jane's F-15, released in 1988, is better than the RAZBAM F-15ES.

At the Tokyo Game Show 2024, RB was promoting the DCS F-15ES.

Is RB still up for it?

lol

[LordOrion]

On 12/23/2024 at 12:46 PM, happyhappy said:

Jane's F-15, released in 1988, is better than the RAZBAM F-15ES.

1998

I remeber I saved money from xmas, birthday and my weekly allowance to buy the Matrox Mystique I need in order to allow my poor Pentium 133MHz to run it (without, my hardware was under the minimum specs).

I loved that game, as well as I loved Janes'F/A-18E and Microprose F-15 Strike Eagle III, but none of them was better than the RB F-15E in term of simulation.

Edited December 27, 2024 by LordOrion