waiting for resolution RAZBAM Situation Post Archive (will be deleted)

[Ignition]

4 hours ago, Nightdare said:

Not forcing a solution isn't a great survival strategy for ED

...and ED has more to worry about

Assuming there was a real IP contract breach.

[NineLine]

3 minutes ago, Ignition said:

Assuming there was a real IP contract breach.

It's in the first post from an official announcement. Please don't start on the conspiracies again. 

[kotor633]

vor 22 Minuten schrieb Gunnar81:

Dont overthink it. The Harrier is a great module and mostly feature complete. Buy it, enjoy yourself and leave the 72 pages of this nonsense behind.

There are two things about the Harrier that are annoying and need to be revised: the sound and the unfinished manual. Apart from that, I don't know what speaks against the Harrier (regardless of the current situation).

[MAXsenna]

There are two things about the Harrier that are annoying and need to be revised: the sound and the unfinished manual. Apart from that, I don't know what speaks against the Harrier (regardless of the current situation).

Training missions?

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

[kotor633]

Gerade eben schrieb MAXsenna:

Training missions?

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk
 

Okay, three things.

Btw: I just came across this in the AV8B subforum. A Light at the end of the tunnel...?

 

[MAXsenna]

OT but that Iraq video was pretty cool...

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

[Oban]

Sums up a considerable amount of the DCS community

[JuiceIsLoose]

5 minutes ago, SkateZilla said:

this literally comes up w/ every video,

the 3rd Parties choose whether or not to participate in sales, RB has chosen not to, no speculation involved.

Well it seems like someone from the ED team nuked my post for some reason?

 

But what I was getting at was that ED liked this comment. Not that the F-15E wasn't in the video.

[NineLine]

23 minutes ago, JuiceIsLoose said:

Well it seems like someone from the ED team nuked my post for some reason?

 

But what I was getting at was that ED liked this comment. Not that the F-15E wasn't in the video.

I could not find this liked comment anywhere, so I removed it from here. If it is found I am sure it was a misclick, but I do not see it at all. Thanks. 

[Mizzy]

5 hours ago, NineLine said:

It's in the first post from an official announcement. Please don't start on the conspiracies again. 

Good luck on that one !!

[Pipe]

6 hours ago, ssn said:

In practical terms, if I'd bought Harrier now - which I'd really love to do - would Razbam get their cut?

I wonder about this as well, thought the money I paid for SE was going to them...but no

[Rudel_chw]

2 minutes ago, MarcHatzi said:

Am I understanding that the F15, M2000 and the AV-8B are not being undated due to a dispute?

 

Yes

 

2 minutes ago, MarcHatzi said:

If so, are we able to get a refund for those products?

 

You can get a refund only for the F-15E, as the other 3 Razbam modules have finished their development and ED is ensuring to keep them working with new versions of DCS (but will not add features to them). The F-15E was still under development when this dispute began, and so most likely won't be finished.

Razbam's Map is still being updated by its original developer, so it is in a different status than the aircraft modules.

I also mourn the MiG-23, which was Razbam upcoming new Module .. I was looking forward to it a lot

 

 

[Horns]

14 hours ago, ssn said:

In practical terms, if I'd bought Harrier now - which I'd really love to do - would Razbam get their cut?

This is just my best guess/expectation, so please consider any comments to the contrary and disregard my comment if there is an official comment from NL or BN:

Anything due to RB from sales would be recorded as such. The cash will not flow to them immediately, but once the legal issues have been resolved to the point where there is a dollar figure for amounts owed to each party, the cut Razbam would have received from your purchase will go in their favor (as with the other sales made while payments to RB have been withheld), either reducing the amount they must pay or increasing the amount they receive. In short, Razbam would gain revenue from your purchase, but they won't immediately receive cash from it.

I know that's a complex answer, but I don't think there's a simpler one.

[ssn]

14 hours ago, ssn said:

In practical terms, if I'd bought Harrier now - which I'd really love to do - would Razbam get their cut?

Sigh. I guess the total silence on this simple question from the official sources speaks volumes.

Just to let you guys at ED know -- I don't believe this is acceptable behaviour.  If you'd really need to force misbehaving third party, the right thing to do would be to pull the modules and not to withold the cash.  But, to be frank, I don't believe it either.  If there was such a massive violation of ED's IP to mandate such a move, I think, I should be able to buy some product that shafts ED, but... I am not aware of any.

So... with heavy heart, I will be witholding any purchases of ED's or Razbam's modules until there's a clear communication from both parties that the issue is worked on and to a mutual satisfaction.

I really hope you'll find a way to dig yourselves out of any hole you managed to get yourselves into.  I love your product and do root for both companies.  Please don't let this unique ecosystem to wither.  I believe the radio silence and deflection won't cut it and it's far better to open and rely on the goodwill and affection of your community, which I believe you have plenty, despite some its parts being toxic.

All the best. I am keeping my fingers crossed.
 

32 minutes ago, Horns said:

This is just my best guess/expectation, so please consider any comments to the contrary and disregard my comment if there is an official comment from NL or BN:

Anything due to RB from sales would be recorded as such. The cash will not flow to them immediately, but once the legal issues have been resolved to the point where there is a dollar figure for amounts owed to each party, the cut Razbam would have received from your purchase will go in their favor (as with the other sales made while payments to RB have been withheld), either reducing the amount they must pay or increasing the amount they receive. In short, Razbam would gain revenue from your purchase, but they won't immediately receive cash from it.

I know that's a complex answer, but I don't think there's a simpler one.

Horns, thank you, that would surely be a way to feel good about scratching my Harrier itch, but until there's evidence that is the case, it would feel wrong to assume that.

[freehand]

This is just rinse & repeat all been said before one way or the other, some new material is needed 

[MAXsenna]

This is just rinse & repeat all been said before one way or the other, some new material is needed 

Agree! Better bring out those investigative skills of yours and give us some relevant juice!

[YoYo]

22 hours ago, ssn said:

In practical terms, if I'd bought Harrier now - which I'd really love to do - would Razbam get their cut?

Good decision, the Harrier is a really cool model and basically a complete.

On 10/18/2024 at 10:31 AM, skywalker22 said:

I would like to fly, but I just can't.

Lol. Why? Does your conviction strengthen you? Each model is almost fully functional and does not differ from the EA level or the current status of other modules. Whether it's MiG-19, M2000, AV-8B or F-15E, you can still enjoy it at a high level.

Personally, I have not made any refunds and do not intend to. Unless I'm forced to do so.

Generally, if I could summarize a few posts here about status of modules (sry ), what is noticed, what you see, depending on who you are :

 

Edited October 19, 2024 by YoYo

[prianik]

@NineLine @BIGNEWY If it happens that you do not agree with Razbam, then we, as a community, can count on you to buy out the rights to develop the F15E? This module has tremendous prospects for both the community and business. Map of Iraq with F 15E, it's Mom and Dad. I would like to have a full-fledged family

Edited October 19, 2024 by prianik

[BIGNEWY]

1 hour ago, prianik said:

@NineLine @BIGNEWY If it happens that you do not agree with Razbam, then we, as a community, can count on you to buy out the rights to develop the F15E? This module has tremendous prospects for both the community and business. Map of Iraq with F 15E, it's Mom and Dad. I would like to have a full-fledged family

 

We have no new information to share currently sorry, everything is in the first post. As soon as we can share more we will. Everyone wants a good result. 

thank you 

[Schmidtfire]

10 hours ago, Rudel_chw said:

the other 3 Razbam modules have finished their development

This is sort of an incorrect statement. They are out of Early Access. There is no such thing as a finished module.
Harrier, MiG-19P and Mirage 2000C still received updates (but obviously, the latest F-15E was prioritized). Not to mention planned overhauls.
I mean.. we still get updates for the FW190D9 Dora that was released 10 years ago. A less complex module in the scheme of things.

This is the sort of thing that can happen when development drags on and on. While the modules are mostly "feature complete" there is still work
to be done.

However, I understand ED's position of not refunding the older Razbam modules. It's reasonable at the modules age and stage.

[Horns]

2 hours ago, Schmidtfire said:

This is sort of an incorrect statement. They are out of Early Access. There is no such thing as a finished module.
Harrier, MiG-19P and Mirage 2000C still received updates (but obviously, the latest F-15E was prioritized). Not to mention planned overhauls.
I mean.. we still get updates for the FW190D9 Dora that was released 10 years ago. A less complex module in the scheme of things.

This is the sort of thing that can happen when development drags on and on. While the modules are mostly "feature complete" there is still work
to be done.

However, I understand ED's position of not refunding the older Razbam modules. It's reasonable at the modules age and stage.

I disagree.

The 'updates' you mention for older modules are generally just compatibility fixes. ED have stated they will maintain compatibility for the Razbam modules from the DCS side, since they wouldn't be maintained from the dev side if RB fold or leave.

A feature complete module has indeed finished its development, because there is no further obligation to expand the scope of the module. A dev always has the option of adding to a module, that doesn't mean it isn't finished before that happens. Think of it like a movie, the original theatre cut is complete when it is at the release stage, it is not 'incomplete' or unfinished because of the possibility a Director's Cut will come out.

Overhauls are particularly a can of worms when we talk about Razbam, but as you didn't go into them I won't either.

Edited October 19, 2024 by Horns

[exhausted]

14 hours ago, YoYo said:

Good decision, the Harrier is a really cool model and basically a complete.

Lol. Why? Does your conviction strengthen you? Each model is almost fully functional and does not differ from the EA level or the current status of other modules. Whether it's MiG-19, M2000, AV-8B or F-15E, you can still enjoy it at a high level.

Personally, I have not made any refunds and do not intend to. Unless I'm forced to do so.

Generally, if I could summarize a few posts here about status of modules (sry ), what is noticed, what you see, depending on who you are :

 

 

I'm going to say something so controversial in this thread that will surely result in my post being deleted or being labeled a pessimist, or both: there are parts of each module that need to be updated; the MiG-19 has several malfunctioning elements in the cockpit; the AV-8B still has a flaw that causes it to snap into a scientifically impossible flat spin when breaking with a bomb load; and obviously the F-15E isn't done (none of them are, actually).

The objective truth is that ED is pointing fingers at Razbam and Razbam is pointing fingers back. I know I am supposed to give my unwaivering support to ED in this thread, but as this part of the post does not discuss anything OUTSIDE the official announcement, it can be said that ED's equal resistance to outright solving the deficits is preventing or prolonging the fixes to the modules listed above. There is another word for this outlook: objectivity.

Edited October 19, 2024 by exhausted

[YoYo]

20 minutes ago, exhausted said:

I'm going to say something so controversial in this thread that will surely result in my post being deleted or being labeled a pessimist, or both: there are parts of each module that need to be updated; the MiG-19 has several malfunctioning elements in the cockpit; the AV-8B still has a flaw that causes it to snap into a scientifically impossible flat spin when breaking with a bomb load; and obviously the F-15E isn't done (none of them are, actually).

The objective truth is that ED is pointing fingers at Razbam and Razbam is pointing fingers back. I know I am supposed to give my unwaivering support to ED in this thread, but as this part of the post does not discuss anything OUTSIDE the official announcement, it can be said that ED's equal resistance to outright solving the deficits is preventing or prolonging the fixes to the modules listed above. There is another word for this outlook: objectivity.

 

Of course, like in life, nothing is perfect. And I don't think anyone here is saying that all these modules are 100%. It's not like that, but these are minor things that don't diminish the importance of a given module. The fact that the F-15E doesn't have all the MFD screens (and why would I honestly go through the BIT screen, for example?) and a few more types of weapons, does it mean that the module is in a terrible condition and can't be flown (as some suggest), or requires a return? Absolutely not. The same as you write Harrier, it's in a specific situation, when the user doesn't follow the instructions, if you go beyond certain situations it can force an error. These are minor things that are completely nothing to worry about, they will be, but they don't ruin the reception of the models. However, of course - the biggest problem may be the fact that some patch will mess something up, or like it was with the F-15E radar. The risk in the current situation is only here and possibly what the future will bring. I wouldn't worry about condition of modules today. There's plenty to do at DCS, it would be nice if Razbam didn't come back to the game, if he sold the rights and IP to ED and that's it. Maybe an additional team would take care of it here - but that would also require additional specialists.

[Beirut]

On 10/17/2024 at 5:23 PM, Dangerzone said:

I differentiate between games and simulators, but fair call. 

 

Nick Grey called DCS a game in an interview.  It's also listed as a game on this site, on Steam, and even - god forbid - on Wikipedia. It's a game.

 

And a great one. 

[lee1hy]

How to hide "RAZABAM" whole section in DCS forum?