DCS: F-5E Remastered - First impressions

[r4y30n]

I kept hearing Heatblur was supposed to offer thier pulse radar simulation tech to ED? So it could be adapted to ther modules like the F5?

I don’t think anyone official has suggested that from either side. I mentioned in another thread that HB did an excellent job with their implementation and they stated in one of their updates that they were open to the possibility of licensing their tech (specifically Anvil) to other teams.

Politics aside, to bring in HB’s radar tech you’d likely have to rebuild all the F-5’s systems in Anvil. Basically build the whole plane over again, aside from art. HB’s been doing that themselves porting the F-14 to Anvil at least as far back as the F-4 release and that work is still ongoing.

Long story short, it’s possible but extremely unlikely.

[Kev2go]

35 minutes ago, r4y30n said:

I don’t think anyone official has suggested that from either side. I mentioned in another thread that HB did an excellent job with their implementation and they stated in one of their updates that they were open to the possibility of licensing their tech (specifically Anvil) to other teams.

Politics aside, to bring in HB’s radar tech you’d likely have to rebuild all the F-5’s systems in Anvil. Basically build the whole plane over again, aside from art. HB’s been doing that themselves porting the F-14 to Anvil at least as far back as the F-4 release and that work is still ongoing.

Long story short, it’s possible but extremely unlikely.

Anvil doesn't require the entire plane to rebuilt, because nothing was said about all of the avionics system needing to be linked and done like the F4.  I was only talking about the radar simulation .   Regardless of  HB proprietary tech, community has been asking for a radar fix from ED since forever. F16 and F/A18 Hornet got radar changes and they are not using any other 3rd parties proprietary tech.

When it comes to the new 3d model the Radar scope display is just a green tinge, and aught to be tweaked.

 

Edited December 5, 2024 by Kev2go

[Madpie]

@Ala12Rv-Tundra I'll send you a dm with the fusion file or get you to draw me what you need on a picture

[XpRiV]

Personally, I love it. It looks more like a FF module now when you compare it to the Flaming Cliff one. 

Nicely done ED. 

[Schmidtfire]

Expecting a total radar rework is perhaps a bit much. But they could have tweaked textures and lua values to get something more realistic looking. Same with the tracers and cannon dispersion.

Anyways. It is ED’s choice to market and brand this DLC as a Remaster. Personally I don’t see the 7000+ hours put into this. Nothing stands out, no extra effort that surprised me.

It’s looking better for sure, but it’s barely enough considering how long we have waited for proper F-5E updates.

 

[lee1hy]

I have purchased and run it, but it seems likely that ED will do remasters like this in the future. With no way to make a profit, ED is now likely to upgrade PAY with minimal work, not to the very high level like A-10 or KA50. This probably seems like a business experiment model.

They say 7,000 hours, but all the free community modders, mission, and skin maker are currently serving experienced that amount of work time.

Edited December 5, 2024 by lee1hy

[VPS_SPIT]

22 minutes ago, Schmidtfire said:

Expecting a total radar rework is perhaps a bit much. But they could have tweaked textures and lua values to get something more realistic looking. Same with the tracers and cannon dispersion.

 

Agreed ! It should look like this :

 

I tried to simulate that by modifying textures a few years ago but never got a satisfying result...

[Madpie]

You would think the orange grid would have been a low hanging fruit to fix

[diamond26]

The remastered version has some good elements but also some that are needing adjustment.

The good ones are definitely the look and feel, the sounds during buffeting, the gun smoke and the vapors from the wings, the more rigid wings during high G turns.

For the adjustment ones, I see a lot of reflections on the canopy and all glass surfaces in the cockpit. Not sure if a setting that needs adjustment or it's like this by design.

 

 

[Ala12Rv-Tundra]

45 minutes ago, diamond26 said:

The remastered version has some good elements but also some that are needing adjustment.

The good ones are definitely the look and feel, the sounds during buffeting, the gun smoke and the vapors from the wings, the more rigid wings during high G turns.

For the adjustment ones, I see a lot of reflections on the canopy and all glass surfaces in the cockpit. Not sure if a setting that needs adjustment or it's like this by design.

 

 

Canopy reflections arent part of yesterday's patch, and available to config with slider within dcs settings? 

[diamond26]

20 minutes ago, Ala12Rv-Tundra said:

Canopy reflections arent part of yesterday's patch, and available to config with slider within dcs settings? 

Is that a question or you know how to control reflections in the F-5E cockpit?

 

[gulredrel]

14 hours ago, Oesau said:

RShft RAlt and H ` for the inspection panels

Sorry, but not working for me, I have no clue:

 

[Gizmo03]

I have to say, i'm a bit disappointed. I tested the remastered version and i think this should have been a free update to an old module and not something we have to pay for. I was expecting a bit more for 10 USD....

[Bremspropeller]

Are the new LEX vapes featured already?

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

24 minutes ago, Bremspropeller said:

Are the new LEX vapes featured already?

I don't know if they are new since I haven't flown the F-5 in a good while before this "remaster", but they are there yes.

[twistking]

8 hours ago, Schmidtfire said:

[...] Nothing stands out, no extra effort that surprised me.

It’s looking better for sure, but it’s barely enough considering how long we have waited for proper F-5E updates.

That's unfortunately also the impression i got from reading the forums and watching youtube videos. The F-5 is such a simple aircraft (in comparison to most other modules), yet the fidelity of each system still seems lower. The lack of radar improvements are the biggest letdown imho. The radar scope visuals already felt "basic" when the module released. At least a visual overhaul would be needed.
Lack of Mavericks is another disappointment: When the module originally released a Belsimtek dev wrote that they would "like" to add Mavericks if they can get hold of documentation. I cannot believe that getting hold of documentation for such an ubiquitous plane would be that hard...
I will restrain from purchasing the upgrade until there's some confirmation that at least the radar will see future improvements.
Better radar would make the upgrade worth the asking price, Mavericks would be the cherry on top and make the purchase a no-brainer (for me personally)...

Edited December 5, 2024 by twistking

[NineLine]

1 hour ago, twistking said:

That's unfortunately also the impression i got from reading the forums and watching youtube videos. The F-5 is such a simple aircraft (in comparison to most other modules), yet the fidelity of each system still seems lower. The lack of radar improvements are the biggest letdown imho. The radar scope visuals already felt "basic" when the module released. At least a visual overhaul would be needed.
Lack of Mavericks is another disappointment: When the module originally released a Belsimtek dev wrote that they would "like" to add Mavericks if they can get hold of documentation. I cannot believe that getting hold of documentation for such an ubiquitous plane would be that hard...
I will restrain from purchasing the upgrade until there's some confirmation that at least the radar will see future improvements.
Better radar would make the upgrade worth the asking price, Mavericks would be the cherry on top and make the purchase a no-brainer (for me personally)...

The only 'issue' I know about the radar is the ground clutter noise, and while it may be revisited in the future it was out of the scope for what was being done here.

The Mavericks, even if a dev from 8+ years ago mentioned they would 'like' to do it would have required modelling a different version than we have now, I know some of you are ok with just slapping different weapons on, but I also remember the extra HARMs on the Viper, and even if it made sense, people were still upset by this. 

The intent of this 9.99 update was to improve the overall art and 3D modelling of the module. Being disappointed is fine, but keep I mind we did not promise or suggest it would be more than this. Thanks. 

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

18 minutes ago, NineLine said:

but keep I mind we did not promise or suggest it would be more than this.

The internet remembers:
 

 

[Ala12Rv-Tundra]

4 hours ago, gulredrel said:

Sorry, but not working for me, I have no clue:

 

Maybe you need a cold aircraft, like F-15E or Apache.

[NineLine]

3 minutes ago, Raven (Elysian Angel) said:

The internet remembers:
 

 

Not sure I see your point, he means its not just cosmetic in that its more than just textures, there are many improvements based on the new model, many of those improvements were also passed to the old version freely as well. 

So the better comment would be "The internet remembers what it wants to remember".

[Ala12Rv-Tundra]

7 hours ago, diamond26 said:

Is that a question or you know how to control reflections in the F-5E cockpit?

 

well it´s the second time today I have to apologise because of my English sorry.

I mean the new update added the option to show canopy reflections, it´s not a F-5 remaster thing only. So maybe the new graphic option is ON by default, and got you into thinking it´s a remaster thing.

Does that make sense now?

[diamond26]

12 minutes ago, Ala12Rv-Tundra said:

I mean the new update added the option to show canopy reflections, it´s not a F-5 remaster thing only. So maybe the new graphic option is ON by default, and got you into thinking it´s a remaster thing.

Thank you, I haven't noticed the change in settings and I didn't see that much of influence of this setting on F-18, that's why I was confused

[Bucic]

@NineLine You said that some new information is coming after this Friday regarding the released Upgrade and maybe some future plans. Did you mean a FAQ/Q&A of sorts or something else? I don't know if you're accepting Q's but I already have a juicy one that's been bugging me since I learned about the Upgrade

Q: Is there a rough timeline for the upgraded landing gear physics for the F-5E? It has been said that not only warbirds are getting the new rubbers.

 

 

[tflash]

I just like it that one of my most favorite planes got some love! The F-5E really flies so, so well, imho one of the best flying models in DCS! Brushed up cockpit is a nice place to be. Personally I would add some AIM-9M's. Would the real one be able to sport those, or does it lack something (cooling?) to operate them? P5 is not so bad either of course. 

[Finlayson]

15 hours ago, VZ_342 said:

That'd be my advice as well. I went in with full trust thinking "ooh man, this is gonna be great!" but afterwards...eh, I like the skins I had (and still have them, but no way to use them)

 

Back up your original F-5E-3 files!

IMHO, that's not necessary at all, because...

1. The old F-5E is not going anywhere. It is still supported, you can still fly (and install and uninstall) it as often as you see fit. No need for a farewell flight.

2. ED has to continue to support the old F-5E or force everybody to buy the update (or make it a free update), which they are not doing, at least for now.

3. The new F-5E does *not* overwrite or clobber the installation of the old F-5E. It is installed as a separate module in the folder "F-5E 2024"

4. You can have both installed and switch between them via the plugin enable/disable feature in DCS Module manager (restart required) or the new DCS Launcher (before start).

5. The new F-5E automatically disables the old F-5E during initialization in case both are installed and enabled.

So, obviously ED wants the new F-5E to be a seamless replacement for the old F-5E such that all settings and bindings carry over from the old F-5E, and all missions/campaigns automatically use the new F-5E if it is installed and enabled. They perfectly implemented exactly that. I don't see any problems here.

But the fact that they packed and/or encrypted the textures in that new .edce format is another matter. Would be interesting to know if this is a security feature to protect against somebody extracting the 3D models and textures and using them outside of DCS, or if they want to prevent modding, or if it is simply a new standard way of storing these assets supported by their engine. Anyways, I always loved the fact that one can modify the textures, and it would be a shame if that feature is taken away from DCS in future modules.