DCS F-35A

[pyromaniac4002]

This is not correct, most ventures that get financial backing will provide a percentage of profit to those financial backers.

 

For whatever reason this project is not going down the conventional route for obtaining financial backing.

 

Why is a jet fighter sim of a current jet fighter which will be around for 50 years unable to find financial backing from conventional means?

 

This makes me just sit back and watch for a bit rather than coughing up money.

 

This developer has been around for 30-odd years doing exactly this kind of work, and they've been vetted by Eagle Dynamics. A lot of people seem to forget that. Wags announced the thing in the first place even. I'd say that's plenty of reason to say this isn't some scam.

 

As far as why they're going with Kickstarter rather than "conventional" means of obtaining funding, it obviously has benefits for the developer, but it also benefits us. You can contribute as little or as much as you want, you'll only actually pay anything if they meet their financing goals, and you can get some very nifty perks in the process.

 

Besides, we're not the biggest demographic to market a product to. Anybody financing a project like this with a monetary interest could stand to make a much larger return in other endeavors. This also serves to diminish any kind of interference an investor might have in the end product, allowing KI to pursue the project that they (and we) want to produce. Even with A-10C, Ka-50, and CA, ED's biggest profits still come from the lower-fidelity Lock On sims, and keep in mind that because of their contractual obligations with Ubisoft you still can't get FC3 without having an earlier version installed. Luckily that's being remedied in the near future with the individual aircraft modules for DCS: World, but it's been ages that we've dealt with this ridiculous hurdle because of their arrangements with their producer.

 

This is a small, but experienced developer trying to make their virtual take on the F-35 a reality, and the clear consensus here is that the members of this community want to see that happen too. It's a smart and mutually beneficial move, and the plans for the OPEVAL process are something that I think proves the dedication and passion that this developer shares for advancing our common interests.

[71st_Mastiff]

Its ok guys the Chinese are already making one.

[pyromaniac4002]

Its ok guys the Chinese are already making one.

 

hahaha

 

If it's all the same to you, I'll take an American copy myself. Don't want to get lead poisoning while I'm exacting swift and overwhelming revenge on all of those SA-10s, -11s and -15s that have plagued my airborne existence for years.

 

Also a quick afterthought from my last post, for anyone who has their doubts about the intentions or abilities of the developer to deliver on this product, read the Home page on their Kickstarter. If you have suspicions about their using Kickstarter (like the guy I was originally responding to), see the "Why Kickstarter" paragraph. It's after all the stuff introducing DCS: World to those who aren't familiar with it, so it's pretty far down the page.

 

Edited June 29, 2013 by pyromaniac4002
added link

[SUBS17]

Don't forget the F35A has an arrester hook, I saw the 3d model but it has no Hook animation yet.:music_whistling:

[near_blind]

Don't forget the F35A has an arrester hook, I saw the 3d model but it has no Hook animation yet.:music_whistling:

 

Neither the hook nor the A's landing gear are up to withstanding a carrier landing, and there is no emergency ground arresting equipment in game. Why spend valuable time modelling something that will be entirely useless?

[beaupower32]

The hook is there as a safety device incase of hydraulic failure or some other problem that would warrent the aircraft to use a hook to safely get it to stop. Its not for carrier landing, and as near blind said the A model couldnt withstand the forces of a carrier landing.

[Kusch]

$775,000 - Taiwan F-35A + F-35C + F-35B + Taiwan will include Taiwan and the coast of China databases along with campaigns and missions in a conflict with China. The Mission Editor will be updated to include the latest ground and air threats.

 

$775,000? They want to buy the whole Taiwan?

[sylkhan]

$775,000? They want to buy the whole Taiwan?

 

:lol:

[Dudikoff]

This is a small, but experienced developer trying to make their virtual take on the F-35 a reality, and the clear consensus here is that the members of this community want to see that happen too.

 

I'm just curious what do you base your experience statements on? I must be missing something here, because I see no references related to building a fully functional 3D cockpit (with HMD) plus radar modeling plus AFM or even a new terrain in DCS World among other things (just random examples), especially given that the teams with recent relevant experience (like producing FSX add-ons) seem to be struggling here.

 

So, please pardon my sorry skeptical mind, but I hope they have some updates forthcoming to the KS page, because, frankly, all I see is a 3D model plus links to youtube videos and various DCS World features. I would at least expect the team presentation with their relevant technical skills (to make up for the lack of presentation material) which would make it possible to pull off this daunting task. So, that would make a nice KS update, IMHO.

Edited June 29, 2013 by Dudikoff

[npole]

Wags announced the thing in the first place even.

 

Yup, he pushed the whole thing a way too much, without giving detailed information of why this module had the potential to succeed. When you see someone trying to advertise a product in that way, you start to smell something wrong. At least that was my first reaction...

 

This is a small, but experienced developer trying to make their virtual take on the F-35 a reality

 

Pretty wrong decision.. "trying to make their virtual" ... ? This is DCS world, we will have it (probably not, looking at the funds) into "our" world. We don't need ppl experimenting things without knowing if they will end with something good or with crap.

 

Honestly I would have given my money for an aircraft that has been around by a while, with a good chance of seeing it completed (a F18, a F14, a F16...), but not for a F35, the chance of end with guessing how things works into that airplane (transforming a simulator into a random buttons game) are too high, in my opinion there's no way they could collect enough detailed info to end with a simulation at A10C level (that is the minimum acceptable, for me, that deserves to be implemented as a DCS module).

I could imagine a detailed F35 simulator in three years, but not today.

 

Maybe they will fail with the F35 thing and they will eventually opt for something that makes more sense. They probably have imagined all the kids attracted by the futuristic overpowered machine that the F35 represent (more chances to collect money), but they forgot that the DCS user-base (and especially those ppl that have enough money to "invest") aren't all kids, but ppl that are interested into a serious simulation, this chaps are generally attracted more by a super-hornet than the USS Enterprise.

[Suchacz]

I'm just curious what do you base your experience statements on? I'm must be missing something here, because I see no references related to building a functional 3D cockpit plus radar modeling plus AFM in DCS World among other things.

 

Pardon my sorry skeptical existence, but I hope they have some updates forthcoming to the KS page, because, frankly, all I see is a 3D model plus links to youtube videos and various DCS World features.

Agree, there is nothing on their KS campaign that can persuade me to send them my hardly earned money. But I wish them all the best luck to reach their goals and release a top-quality module, which will be my first-minute-buy :thumbup:

[jp203000]

Just remind me of IRIS .

[Aries]

Aren't we already in the wait for almost a year for another "kickstarted" module? :doh:

[Starkiller]

24 hours now....

 

140

Backers

$12,461

pledged of $75,000 goal

 

15

days to go

 

15 hours 30 minute later...

 

176

Backers

$14,939

pledged of $75,000 goal

 

14

days to go

 

The momentum is dropped significantly. They gotta do some serious PR soon to renew the momentum.

[Rotorhead]

Agree, there is nothing on their KS campaign that can persuade me to send them my hardly earned money. But I wish them all the best luck to reach their goals and release a top-quality module, which will be my first-minute-buy :thumbup:

 

Exactly that. I'm not very fond of this plane, but flying the VTOL variant will be a blast and I'm totally going to buy it as soon as it is done. Actually, I'm eager to throw my money in right now, but I'm not going to. Four minutes video of developer talking about his goals and footage of real F-35 is not very convincing to me.

 

What I want to see is their F-35 within DCS environment, showing at least a trace of flight dynamics and avionics. Sorry, there are many people out there who can make a beautiful 3D model of a plane, but very few people who can make it work inside DCS.

 

I donated for Beczl without any doubts, but mainly because during his funding campaign, he already had something to show off (and besides that, he had already done his Mig for FC2, alongside with another addons). And even with those prerequisites, we can see Beczl lagging pretty much behind his schedule. Now what can I expect from a company that showed nothing so far?

 

Sorry for my negativity, KI, I don't mean to be offensive. I wish you to be successful in your goal and bring us a excellent simulation of this fascinating plane. But I hope you understand my concerns.

 

For now, I'm staying outside the AO with all sensors running. ;)

[Silver_Dragon]

The Trendings has clear ($84,654), can be founded the initial target, but the others....

 

Edit: more data on: http://www.kicktraq.com/projects/683368164/f-35a-lightning-ii-by-kinney-interactive/

Edited June 29, 2013 by Silver_Dragon

[Starkiller]

The Trendings has clear ($84,654), can be founded the initial target, but the others....

 

Edit: more data on: http://www.kicktraq.com/projects/683368164/f-35a-lightning-ii-by-kinney-interactive/

That trending is too linear IMHO.

[Angel101]

I don´t know how works KickStarter... what happens if finally the project doesn´t get all funds needed?

[Suchacz]

Everything will be refunded to the last penny...

 

Imho they won't get more than 30,000$. And that is my optimistic assumption. 20-25k should be more realistic... :cry:

Edited June 29, 2013 by Suchacz

[159th_Viper]

.....because, frankly, all I see is a 3D model plus links to youtube videos and various DCS World features. I would at least expect the team presentation with their relevant technical skills (to make up for the lack of presentation material) which would make it possible to pull off this daunting task. So, that would make a nice KS update.....

 

My thoughts exactly.

 

I have voiced this very concern on more than one occasion in this very thread. I cannot believe that the Devs over at Kinny missed every single post. Maybe they did....mmmm. In a final attempt at attempting to elicit an answer, I can only hope that by quoting your very eloquent statement, which I echo wholeheartedly, the matter will be addressed by a member of Kinny Interactive, if for no other reason than a start towards complete transparency.

Edited June 29, 2013 by 159th_Viper

[npole]

I don´t know how works KickStarter... what happens if finally the project doesn´t get all funds needed?

 

They will be refunded, however some of them have the bad habit of a adopting a very dirt technique: they inject "fake" money into the project (their own money), to reach the target to collect the baker's money.

 

I've seen projects missing thousand dollars, but then suddenly receiving all of them the last hour (you'll notice because suddenly some apparent rich ppl starts to buy those thousand dollars pledges for no reason, when they totally ignored em the previous weeks).

 

NOTE: i'm NOT TALKING ABOUT THIS KS! I am talking in general, why you don't see many KS project not reaching the target!

[Starkiller]

They will be refunded, however some of them have the bad habit of a adopting a very dirt technique: they inject "fake" money into the project (their own money), to reach the target to collect the baker's money.

 

I've seen projects missing thousand dollars, but then suddenly receiving all of them the last hour (you'll notice because suddenly some apparent rich ppl starts to buy those thousand dollars pledges for no reason, when they totally ignored em the previous weeks).

 

NOTE: i'm NOT TALKING ABOUT THIS KS! I am talking in general, why you don't see many KS project not reaching the target!

 

Their own money is not fake money, and it is perfectly legitimate business practice IMHO. You can invest in your own project as long as the project is delivered. Take people's money and then disappear is another story and that is dirt technique.

[Dudikoff]

You can invest in your own project as long as the project is delivered. Take people's money and then disappear is another story and that is dirt technique.

 

Yes, but how do you know the money's "invested" into the project? Basically, the money is just added to pass the funding mark and then it gets paid back to the project owner along with the supporter's contributions (minus the KS fee of 15%, IIRC). Since one of the points behind the Kickstarter is for projects to fail and thus for people to don't get charged if the project pitch doesn't manage to convince enough supporters (because there's no guarantees whatsoever by KS so this is the only kind of guarantee), I don't see how this constitutes as a legal move exactly.

 

If the project owner wants to invest his own money, then he should lower the expected minimum pledge amount for the amount he is willing to contribute.

Edited June 29, 2013 by Dudikoff

[npole]

Their own money is not fake money, and it is perfectly legitimate business practice IMHO. You can invest in your own project as long as the project is delivered. Take people's money and then disappear is another story and that is dirt technique.

 

It's not. If you have money to invest, you should be THE FIRST to invest into your own project, if you are asking for other ppl money, but then using your own money only if forced, means that you don't believe into your own project, but you pretend to ask others money?

 

It's legit if you put your money into the project at the start, but if you fake the pledges the last hours only to reach the target and collect those others money then you're playing smart and I already see what's your real intention (trying to earn easy money).

[LostOblivion]

Well, it is also a way for them so say: ok, our goal was too high, let us put some money in ourselves to emulate a lower goal. Does not mean they still cannot reach the goal of making the F-35. But I agree that from a backer's point of view, this is morally wrong, and should be considered scamming.