A-10 Being Retired

[Deadman]

http://www.northropgrumman.com/mediaresources/pages/NewsArticle.aspx?art=http://www.globenewswire.com/newsarchive/noc/press/xml/nitf.html?d=10058568

[Mike Busutil]

"Of course, instead of developing a new plane to succeed the A-10, the Air Force could simply keep the Warthogs it’s got..."

 

https://medium.com/war-is-boring/833a05de6fae

Edited November 24, 2013 by Mike Busutil

[tflash]

^^very informative article, which brings more detailed considerations to the table! The good old Pierre Sprey will never give up challenging the top brass! The "Warthog 2.0" concept sounds attractive!

[FoxHoundELite]

some good news

 

http://theaviationist.com/2013/11/27/a-10-retirement/

[tflash]

Nice opinion article: http://www.aviationweek.com/Article.aspx?id=/article-xml/AW_12_09_2013_p15-641104.xml

[Revan]

it was supposed to still be in service by 2040 like the B-52 but apparently not now

[Rangi]

http://www.janes.com/article/31464/usaf-presses-case-for-a-10-cuts

 

Poor poor USAF not enough billions......

[javelina1]

http://www.janes.com/article/31464/usaf-presses-case-for-a-10-cuts

 

Poor poor USAF not enough billions......

 

as noted in this article, and others, the USAF does not have the final vote. Way too many Hawg fans out there...

 

"One example of the strong momentum in the A-10 programme is a recent contract award to Northrop Grumman to keep the A-10 fleet viable to 2028 and beyond."

[tflash]

Its biggest flaw: no industry lobby machine behind it. It has just its combat record speaking out for it!

[BHawthorne]

I am kind of curious who does have the IP rights to Republic-Fairchild's old designs anyways? I'm more curious because I own the nose section of a Republic F-84F. I inquired around awhile back and no one owned up to owning the IP of the aircraft designs anymore.

[Revelation]

Except laser guided munitions don't really work when there's a cloud cover. At that point a JSF will have to RTB or go down below the clouds and take large risks. The A-10 is built to withstand damage and could still make do.

 

Keep in mind the F-35 will have the ability to update targeting data to GPS guided bombs while the bomb is in flight. No need for a laser, clouds will not be an issue...

[Kaktus29]

i must say in retrospect that i was wrong, A-10 is obsolete, even in CAS role that will be waged in future much different wars than today's..

 

with new generation satellites, all kind of battlefield communication flowing from infantry assault rilfe lasers to HQ units to F-35 flying at 40.000 feet miles away with GPS glide bombs... we have a situation where more of power will be delivered faster and much more accurately than A-10 plus the force delivering this will be able to do other missions such as air-to-air and data mining and sharing for other assets-arty units, mortar units etc..

 

A-10 does look out of place..

 

but this works only if one wages a real hi-tech war against complex strong opponent.. for hunting talibans A-10 is obviously better in deliver of bombs per cost associated with this than F-35 ever would be.. but it seems (logically) Pentagon rather have an army able to defeat larger more sophisticated enemies than be cost-effective at battling taliban ak-47 army ..

[Scrim]

Keep in mind the F-35 will have the ability to update targeting data to GPS guided bombs while the bomb is in flight. No need for a laser, clouds will not be an issue...

 

Yeah, no mid flight updating in the world will help if the target is obscured for the plane.

 

 

Kaktus: No, "new satellites" don't make A-10s obsolete. Seriously, we have hardly come that much further from 2003, and IIRC, the invasion of Iraq was fought just like any other conventional war would've been expected.

 

I'm blaming the Desert Shield/Storm PR media Air Force technology campaign/hype for this. Ever since '91, everyone and their cat have just gone around saying that "the new things change everything, war as we know it only exists in the history books, don't live in the past" without actually having anything to base it on.

[Rangi]

Yeah, no mid flight updating in the world will help if the target is obscured for the plane.

 

 

 

No need for visual on the target with the high resolution ground mapping radar and JDAMs. That said I do think its strange to save money by buying a plane (F-35) that is 10x more expensive to buy and fly to do the job and retire the old girls. Also I'm sure a JDAM or LGB is way more expensive than 30mm, not to mention having tankers on hand to get anywhere near the loiter time etc etc. Seems to be one of those accounting fakes where you spend way more money but hide it in other parts of the ledger so you can point to a number and say this is how much we saved by cutting the A-10. But I'm no pogue so I'm probably full of shit on this one.

[Rangi]

 

but this works only if one wages a real hi-tech war against complex strong opponent.. ..

 

The chances of fighting this kind of war are fairly low in today's interconnected world, but the chances of America fighting another Afghanistan type war I would guess to be getting close to 100%. I guess that is what the LAS is for, just wouldn't want to be the pilot myself.....

[Kaktus29]

@ranqi.. i disagree.. the build up of ABM in Europe, Alaska, and in close future Japan, South Korea shows US is gearing up for a major war against a much more capable opponent than Afghanistan Ak-47 army..

 

the fact that world in inter-connected works in so much that prevents war from occuring when IT WORKS.. when the structure begins to CHANGE/OR fall apart space is released where WAR can occur against major nations..

 

First avenue of the war will not be even cyber-space but financial space..and its already happening.. Assault on the US dollar is in place, and US assault on everybody assaulting US dollar is happening as well.. soon second phase of financial attack coupled with cyber warfare and psychological psy-ops will commence and then we go into last avenue of war-Actual militaries engagments..

 

China knows very well that the first two phases will be very important and that if you loose the two phases you enter a war at a major disadvantage to your forces, morale and ability to wage war successfully..

 

So, yeah, the fact that US air force is upgrading its fleet of drones with jet-drones and replacing the prop drones with faster, stealthier jet engine drones shows you the need to have an air force that can wage war against hi-tech enemy not talibans..

[BBQ]

Say it isn't so!

 

Air Force's Beloved 'Warthog' Targeted For Retirement

 

Listen to interview from NPR's Morning Edition

 

Transcript of interview:

 

Copyright ©2013 NPR. For personal, noncommercial use only. See Terms of Use. For other uses, prior permission required.

 

DAVID GREENE, HOST:

 

Let's turn now back to this country. The United States Air Force is facing some lean years ahead. Efforts to balance the budget are threatening to ground one of the most beloved airplanes of all time: the A-10 Warthog. And that's led to a backlash.

 

As NPR's Larry Abramson reports, defenders of the plane say it can't be retired until the military has a replacement that is just as good at protecting ground troops.

 

LARRY ABRAMSON, BYLINE: Aviation historian Jeff Duford says the A-10 he's standing next to was built at the height of the Cold War. It's painted green, a clue that it was designed for a threat that has disappeared.

 

JEFF DUFORD: The reason why it's painted this way is 'cause at that time this airframe was expected to stop Soviet tanks from rolling through Germany. So it's painted to kind of match the terrain that one would find in central Europe.

 

ABRAMSON: This plane belongs to the National Museum of the Air Force in Dayton, Ohio. After the threat of Soviet tanks faded, this plane turned out to be well adapted to new threats. The A-10's engines are mounted not in the wings, but high off the ground, by the tail section. Duford says this feature helps the A-10 operate in austere environments, like the deserts of Iraq and Afghanistan.

 

DUFORD: They're much less likely to suck in debris that might be on a rough runway. Of course that kind of thing going to a jet engine can destroy the engine.

 

ABRAMSON: The A-10 has a bucketful of other tools that make it a scary weapon, useful for the low-tech fighting of Afghanistan. It's heavily armored so the pilot can get in close without fear of being shot down. Big fat wings let the plane fly low and slow. And it has an awesome nosegun, the GAU-8.

 

DUFORD: Really, the A-10 is built around this gun. The gun itself and the ammunition system dominate the whole front half of the aircraft.

 

ABRAMSON: The A-10's gun is part of the reason experienced infantrymen grow misty-eyed when they recall how this machine saved their bacon. YouTube is full of unauthorized battlefield videos showing this plane unloading nearly 4,000 rounds a minute of armor-piercing bullets that can destroy a tank or level a building.

 

(SOUNDBITE OF GUNFIRE)

 

ABRAMSON: A burst of supersonic shells from a distant plane tear up their target. A couple of seconds later the sounds of the gun itself arrive in the A-10's signature raspberry salute.

 

(SOUNDBITE SALUTE)

 

ABRAMSON: If so many infantrymen and airmen love the A-10 so much, why has it been condemned to death? Air Force Chief General Mark Welsh says he has to answer this budget question.

 

GENERAL MARK WELSH: How do you save dollars that have a B after them instead of amounts of dollars that have an M after them?

 

ABRAMSON: Welsh needs big savings, tens of billions, because the Air Force budget is plummeting to Earth. He says if he just idles a few planes, he'll still have to come up with spare parts for those that remain. But if he mothballs all 343 A-10's, he'll save some serious money. The former pilot told Congress earlier this year it's not a decision he enjoys making.

 

WELSH: A-10 was my first fighter, Congressman. I love the airplane. I have a thousand hours flying it. It is the best airplane in the world at what it does. It is not the best at a lot of other things.

 

ABRAMSON: The A-10 is a single-mission aircraft at a time when multi-mission planes are needed, according to Welsh and others. But don't say that to A-10 veterans unless you're ready for a fight.

 

PIERRE SPREY: I'm here, and I guess a lot of people in this audience are here, because we're outraged by the Air Force's latest attempt to kill the A-10.

 

ABRAMSON: Pierre Sprey helped design the A-10 and many other aircraft. He recently joined other A-10 fans in a Washington, D.C. conference room to bemoan the likely demise of this plane. For Sprey and many others, the Air Force is giving up on the A-10 before it has a replacement ready to help protect ground troops. He says this debate is not about trying to keep a popular airframe flying forever.

 

SPREY: What it's really about is the future of close air support and, in an even larger sense, the future of real and effective air power.

 

ABRAMSON: If the A-10 is retired, it will be a victim of tight budgets, but also of history. Time was the U.S. fleet had lots of planes designed for specific tasks. Jeff Duford of the Air Force Museum says today planes have to be more flexible.

 

DUFORD: More capabilities are being put on single airframes. That does kind of leave open a question about single-use aircraft: What is their place?

 

ABRAMSON: But the A-10 saga is also a good example of the problem the military faces when it tries to kill any plane or really any weapon. With time, a world of supporters grows up around that weapon, making it very hard to cut the billions the Pentagon needs to save. Larry Abramson, NPR News.

 

Copyright © 2013 NPR. All rights reserved. No quotes from the materials contained herein may be used in any media without attribution to NPR. This transcript is provided for personal, noncommercial use only, pursuant to our Terms of Use. Any other use requires NPR's prior permission. Visit our permissions page for further information.

 

NPR transcripts are created on a rush deadline by a contractor for NPR, and accuracy and availability may vary. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Please be aware that the authoritative record of NPR's programming is the audio.

[G00dnight]

old news ............

[SkateZilla]

and yet the raptor is next to useless and sits on the ground most of the time,

 

At least the A-10C is being used. lol.

[cichlidfan]

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=116544

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=114746

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=114385

 

...

[SkateZilla]

Merged All.

[FoxHoundELite]

i thought the Army Aviation Corps is considering to adopt it?

[javelina1]

i thought the Army Aviation Corps is considering to adopt it?

 

The Army Corps of Engineers is... to enhance their mud moving capabilities... :)

[Settingz85]

Goodbye A-10 ??

 

From german newspaper:

 

http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/sparzwang-usa-planen-kleinste-armee-seit-dem-zweiten-weltkrieg-a-955276.html

 

In short:

USA want to cut their military Budget. A-10 fleet may be shut down.

 

"Auch die Luftwaffe wird von den Sparmaßnahmen stark betroffen sein. So soll die Flotte der A-10-Kampfflugzeuge komplett stillgelegt werden. Die noch zu Zeiten des Kalten Krieges entwickelten Jets spielen in zukünftigen Planungen des Pentagon keine Rolle mehr. Auch die U-2-Spionageflugzeuge sollen wegfallen und von der ferngesteuerten "Global Hawk" ersetzt werden."

 

Google translator:

 

"Also, the Air Force will be greatly affected by the austerity measures. So the fleet of A-10 warplanes to be completely shut down. The developed even during the Cold War Jets no longer play a role in future planning of the Pentagon. The U-2 spy planes should be omitted and replaced by the remote-controlled "Global Hawk"."

[Suchacz]

Those are rumors, which I heard a long time ago. But imho until USAF will have something (F-35?) to replace the Hog, they cant be retired.

BTW, no offense, afaik "Der Spiegel" is a kind of gutter press, I doubt they can have some exclusive inside news from USAF. But correct me if I'm wrong.