DCS cloud simulation... when?

Just wanted to know if there have been any status updates on the new 'cloud engine'. I keep very close tabs on the development of this sim but haven't heard anything new since... forever. I can only assume that it has been put on the back burner for now but maybe it is something that ED can touch upon in one of their news- updates. Unless I've missed something... has something been mentioned in the past year?

Nothing new, but it is already existing in the files, just dig a bit

There is a way to activate the new Clouds, but since they're WIP, maybe inofficial and may can cause something and may eat your frames, it's better to wait a bit

Just wanted to know if there have been any status updates on the new 'cloud engine'. I keep very close tabs on the development of this sim but haven't heard anything new since... forever. I can only assume that it has been put on the back burner for now but maybe it is something that ED can touch upon in one of their news- updates. Unless I've missed something... has something been mentioned in the past year?

They have updated the clouds since the 1.5 update first released. It's from what I can see mostly a performance update, not so much a visual one.

They might be part of the 2.5 update.

Those clouds have been in the sim (more or less hidden) since the release of 1.5 if I'm not mistaken. I remember them planning to have a bunch of different types as well as 'new' fog. However, this is information from years ago. To be fair, we've come a long way since Flanker 1.0 and the lack of new clouds certainly isn't a deal breaker but I did wonder about the status.

I take it nothing has changed as far as we're aware of it.

It would be great if when updated they resolve the spinning clouds in VR as well. Kinda goofy to see all the time. Another immersion killer.

It would be great if when updated they resolve the spinning clouds in VR as well. Kinda goofy to see all the time. Another immersion killer.

What!?! You don't see them in real life? They're tornadoes!

What!?! You don't see them in real life? They're tornadoes!

Now a tornado would be fun to fly around and through I am imagining. 2012 LA style. Sadly these I see do not reach the ground nor affect plane flight models :pilotfly:.

Im also really eager about new clouds, not only because they would make everything look more realistic but also because they can become a very important factor into the gameplay. Imagine combats between Mig-21 and F-5 where you can use the complex clouds formations to hide :notworthy: ...

yes, you could do it now, but those 2d, low res clouds are not the same :P ...Also, another critical thing Im waiting for is the possibility of configure several clouds layers!!!, I hope they are working on that, as well as very high clouds drawing distance (I hate clouds apearing just in front of you or looking giant 100 Miles away.

So, as this is a wishlist forum:), Im going to make a list with things about clouds I think would be great:

-Random clouds formations with areas where there are NO clouds and others where there are particular kinds of them (no more same sky all over the place).

-Multiple clouds layers (of different kind if desired)

-PBR for clouds and self shadowing (no more clouds shining with odd lighting)

-High drawing distance.

-Clouds shape that correspond to its size (I mean that in many clouds systems, when there is a very big cloud, it tends to look like a giant white blotch with no detail that ruins the feeling of size and makes it hard to know distance/position of the cloud. We need big detailed shapes for clouds in order to be able to make realistic big clouds formations where you know when are you going to break through them)

-Clouds affect planes when they are flying through them (you should lost visual contact with other planes when going through clouds at certain distances, and with your own plane if in F2 view)

I know all this is a hard task to accomplish but I think if someone can, its ED :thumbup:

truly working clouds would essentially be dynamic terrain... thats a lot of work, not even sure we'll ever be able to get that in this engine.

but i sure as hell would like synched clouds that have realistic gameplay impact, like not being able to spot imposters through them and blocking irst line of sight!

a serious problem with current clouds is, that you can see contacts through them, and more importantly, they are not in sync online. we tested this on various servers, and clouds appear in different locations for different persons. or sometimes people dont see any clouds while others can...these two bugs have unfortunately heavy inpact on gameplay, and i think this must be fixed in future...

additionally what i would like to see in future, would be real CB clouds, or even towering cumulus. clouds that look dangerous. i cant help, but the new wip clouds which are deactivated for now, dont look convincing, without any contours. its a visual thing, and therefore not gamebraking or anything, but still i would love to have more convincing ones in future.

For clouds, and for consistency over clients in multiplayer, procedurally generated ones would probably be a good solution. And it has the potential to generate some really realistic cloud effects, if done right.

(...)yes, you could do it now, but those 2d, low res clouds are not the same

Current clouds are volumetric (3D), you notice when flying through there outer areas.

What is a bit weird is, that they sometimes blend in and out in close proximity.

So, as this is a wishlist forum:), Im going to make a list with things about clouds I think would be great:

 

-Random clouds formations with areas where there are NO clouds and others where there are particular kinds of them (no more same sky all over the place).

Already in, it is called "Dynamic Weather" the other tab on the weather settings.

You can have multiple cyclones/anticyclones and set their pressure to create a weather system, that even changes over time. It is possible to start from the same airport under overcast and rain and land with a broken layer and sunshine, depending on the isobaric systems.

-PBR for clouds and self shadowing (no more clouds shining with odd lighting)

I know what you mean, but the odd lighting/shining is not unrealistic, just needs tweaking. Seen similar in real life a lot when the sun is behind heavy clouds in a low angle and illuminates the thinner, outer layer of the cloud.

-High drawing distance.

Hmm, I'm not sure what you mean, I have pretty far away clouds.

You run on "High" settings, preload radius, maybe?

-Clouds affect planes when they are flying through them (you should lost visual contact with other planes when going through clouds at certain distances, and with your own plane if in F2 view)

This is modeled since forever.

In very(!) close proximity you can see planes, but if you are in a wide formation you can't see sh..

Try flying Multiplayer and go through a larger cloud with 300 feet distance to your wingman.

The effect of blending in and out in clouds could use a bit optimization, though. ;)

I agree, though in general. The current cloud rendering shows its age.

The little "hole" in the typical cumulus cloud that is so recognizable, the similar shaped fluffy clouds, just one layer and a stratocirrus texture high above...

There is room for improvement, definitely.

But I understood from Wags info, they work hard on multiple aspects of the sim and clouds is one of them.

As they try to make a big step forward with 2.5 I expect a lot of things coming or maybe getting worked on, short after 2.5 is out.

Until then, it isn't too bad, if the clouds are synced in Multiplayer you can dodge other (human) planes, already.

The WIP video above looks really promising... :)

Shagrat, thanks a lot for your time and detailed answer :)

Let me explain myself a bit better about some things. (I wish my english was better damn :P)

-I didnt know that actual clouds were 3d :huh:, they look somewhat 2d most of the time so I though they were made with several layers that ware rotating through players sight so they seem to be volumetric but thanks for the clarification.

-With "no more same sky" (I know that we have already the dynamic weather) I meant the same "kind" of cloud...so not the same "cloud shape/model/kind" should be used in the future to represent different weather conditions, the future clouds should be different in different weather conditions AND in different locations of the map as weather changes into the same flight. Hope to be clearer now.

-About unrealistic light, I meant for example when you are flying in late afternoon and the clouds layer look way too bright into its inner part (there is too much light going through the clouds) also due to the lack of clouds self shadowing. In real life at those times, there is almost no light (clouds look almost black/deep blue), just, as you said, the thinner outer layer of the clouds. Just like this:

I know this if a particular moment at which this happens but with a capable clouds system, these phenomena should be reproduced.

Also, self shadowing is critical to make believable clouds to give the feeling of depth and interaction and make possible things like the pictures above. Btw, this is also applicable to terrain.

-About "high drawing distance, I meant highly detailed far away clouds that (and thats linked to the next point in my list) look proportionate and adecuate to the distances they are. So, even if they are huge clouds, as they are very far away they must look like tiny small clouds varely visible in the horizon (but they are there!)...

As you can see in the upper part of the image, these clouds are almost invisible in the horizon, they look small in the picture but they are HUGE...at the same time you can realize the enormus distance they are. In DCS, far clouds are not rendered that far nor give you the impression of being that far and I think its due to the fact that in DCS, clouds are rendered TOO BIG even when they are supposed to be really distant. Its hard to explain any better with my limited english, sorry :P

-About losing visual contact, I meant some kind of "effect" to represent that you are going through a "vapour mass"...actually, if you go through a cloud in the F2 view for example, and not at a very far distance, nothing happens to the plane, like there is nothing in between you and the plane which is not the case...I meant something like that:

1:40sec in

Look how you see your own wing flowing into the cloud...it could be done adding some kind of animated fog that changes depending on how deep you are into the cloud and how far from the object.

Hope everything is clearer now and really looking forward to see those new clouds!!:thumbup:

Yep, as I said, the current render shows its age.

And yes, the all similar DCS Standard Cloud needs more variety. That particular "hole" you find in any larger cloud, especially.

But ED needs to balance looks with performance, so the new cloud rendering system needs to look believable and at the same time requires moderate frame hits, better no more than the current one.

At least they make some progress on the front it seems and I hope they manage to do the overhaul for 2.5 or at least shortly after... Ground units and AI already see some improvements, it seems, and that was announced for 2.5 and beyond... :)

YThat particular "hole" you find in any larger cloud, especially.

 

+1

Yep, as I said, the current render shows its age.

And yes, the all similar DCS Standard Cloud needs more variety. That particular "hole" you find in any larger cloud, especially.

 

But ED needs to balance looks with performance, so the new cloud rendering system needs to look believable and at the same time requires moderate frame hits, better no more than the current one.

 

At least they make some progress on the front it seems and I hope they manage to do the overhaul for 2.5 or at least shortly after... Ground units and AI already see some improvements, it seems, and that was announced for 2.5 and beyond... :)

Yeah, you are right...about the performance well, IMHO, due to the nature of the flight sims and its inherent longevity, I would no doubt choose to make a really astonishing "high end" clouds system, even if its very hard for actual hardware to run it (also, you can always turn down settings to achieve more performance, of course)...

personally, I wouldnt mind, as hardware comes and go, but you dont make a new clouds rendering system every year so I think a great cloud system worth upgrading your PC or wait a couple of gens in computer power to totally enjoy it (in fact, DCS alone has always need a very powerfull system to run even very old versions).

Just my 2 cents...:thumbup:

Multiple layer clouds, something like this would be awesome

Multiple layer clouds, something like this would be realistic

 

fixed for you

Another thing I forget to talk about is how clear edges of the clouds are...I would LOVE to see small, numerous and clearly defined edges clouds/cumulus for the next clouds system :music_whistling:...

I meant, blurry, soft and smooth kind of clouds are really boring and are not that common. Also, its harder to fly next to them knowing how far you are from them or when are you going to penetrate them...instead, clearly edged/shaped clouds are more common and should be a lot of fun to surround while flying very close to them.

I would kill for something as close as possible to this:

Right now (I know its WIP) they look too blurry, even if you are not very close to them:

So, as they are working on this, I hope ED guys to take this into account (sure thay will) :thumbup:

Multiple layer clouds, something like this would be awesome

 

This^

better and more realistic clouds/weather would be my number one wish for DCS. if the cloud formation could also be synced in MP environment, it would be a dream come true, not just for dogfighting, but also for "recreational" flying.

I 100% understand that clouds and weather are difficult to simulate in a digital environment but I'm still surprised at how not great the weather/clouds are in pretty much every flight sim on the market.

Crappy looking tarmac in a racing game or ugly water in a naval sim are no bueno because those genres live in those spaces.

Clouds and weather should theoretically be a hallmark of flight sims and something that flight sims specifically do better than any other genre out there, both from an aesthetic and a gameplay/strategic perspective.