Please explain me the Harrier in English. Total Frustration.

[aw33com]

I have never been more frustrated on DCS as I am with the Harrier.

 

We have gazillion YouTube videos, documentations, guides, who knows what else, but what we are missing is common sense.

 

I'm not the smartest person in the world and I just got my Harrier. I had no idea prior versions of the software did not HAVE INS Alignment option. I had no idea I had to align it, and I had no idea there is an option to change that in the DCS World as well. It took me all day to start and take off the airplane because every documentation is either old, unpractical, too long, or too short (showing off), or missing steps, or not realizing there are extra steps already SET.

 

So this is what I and other noobs would really appropriate:

 

1. Explain different types of take offs in the Harrier and why they are there, for what reason, and what loadouts are possible with them.

 

2. Explain different aircraft setups for different type of takes offs. What is that I need for vertical vs normal, or other?

 

3. Explain difference between INS alignment or auto alignment option SET. Why would I even need this in DCS?

 

4. Explain what this airplane needs for flying? What flaps setup? Auto, Cruise? What should I do with that H20 while flying? What nozzle setup for flying?

 

5. Do I even need ground power? Original documentation talks about Ground Power and APU start up, but no one does that it seems? What is the most practical way to start it?

 

I don't need you to show me the buttons, i can figure all this out myself. Just tell me in English what is that I need.

 

Please don't take my post in a negative way, I am trying to help you. The entire DCS is missing a top down view of things. There are way too many bugs, old docs, inconsistencies. Everyone out there has a different start up procedure and it's all wrong I noticed. This airplane is simple, but the documentation and guides are so complicated for no reason.

 

There is something about Russian airplanes and overall war doctrine, they are way simpler, with way more common sense. I am coming off from that side of flying, and I am really struggling here with NATO planes.

 

Put yourself in my shoes, no HOTAS setup, just installed the module, not knowing about past issues, and try getting it off the ground. You follow guides, instructions, videos, and nothing works because it is either outdated, or simply missing steps. You will see how hard it is for no reason.

[arturojgt]

Hi, I sent you a PM, I can host a mission and fly with you.

 

 

Sent from my Tornado IDS while on autopilot using Tapatalk Pro.

[Shadow_1stVFW]

I have never been more frustrated on DCS as I am with the Harrier.

 

 

 

We have gazillion YouTube videos, documentations, guides, who knows what else, but what we are missing is common sense.

 

 

 

I'm not the smartest person in the world and I just got my Harrier. I had no idea prior versions of the software did not HAVE INS Alignment option. I had no idea I had to align it, and I had no idea there is an option to change that in the DCS World as well. It took me all day to start and take off the airplane because every documentation is either old, unpractical, too long, or too short (showing off), or missing steps, or not realizing there are extra steps already SET.

 

 

 

So this is what I and other noobs would really appropriate:

 

 

 

1. Explain different types of take offs in the Harrier and why they are there, for what reason, and what loadouts are possible with them.

 

 

 

2. Explain different aircraft setups for different type of takes offs. What is that I need for vertical vs normal, or other?

 

 

 

3. Explain difference between INS alignment or auto alignment option SET. Why would I even need this in DCS?

 

 

 

4. Explain what this airplane needs for flying? What flaps setup? Auto, Cruise? What should I do with that H20 while flying? What nozzle setup for flying?

 

 

 

5. Do I even need ground power? Original documentation talks about Ground Power and APU start up, but no one does that it seems? What is the most practical way to start it?

 

 

 

I don't need you to show me the buttons, i can figure all this out myself. Just tell me in English what is that I need.

 

 

 

Please don't take my post in a negative way, I am trying to help you. The entire DCS is missing a top down view of things. There are way too many bugs, old docs, inconsistencies. Everyone out there has a different start up procedure and it's all wrong I noticed. This airplane is simple, but the documentation and guides are so complicated for no reason.

 

 

 

There is something about Russian airplanes and overall war doctrine, they are way simpler, with way more common sense. I am coming off from that side of flying, and I am really struggling here with NATO planes.

 

 

 

Put yourself in my shoes, no HOTAS setup, just installed the module, not knowing about past issues, and try getting it off the ground. You follow guides, instructions, videos, and nothing works because it is either outdated, or simply missing steps. You will see how hard it is for no reason.

 

I mean, most of your frustrations are covered in the manual. I don't really understand how you complain about a lack of documents and then say what you have is too long. Like, read the manual to know how the plane works... If you are short on time, Chuck's guides are great, and he updates them regularly.

 

1) Options. Look at the weight limits associated with the aircraft. You can't vertically lift it at Max gross, so you might need to roll. I've never seen this explained anywhere. You take off how you want because of the benefits to you.

 

2) Checklist, located in the manual.

 

3) Personal preference. Set it how you like to tailor your experience.

 

4) Checklist, located in the manual.

 

5) Checklist, located in the manual.

 

The manual is located on Razbam's website. Along with the standard place in the docs folder in your module subfolders in your DCS install

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/rwxk88479v98thh/AV8BNA%20Pocket%20Guide.pdf?dl=0

 

But here it is ↑^

 

And Chuck's Guides can be found here. He is a VERY well known source of information around here.

 

https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?url=https%3A%2F%2Fforums%2Eeagle%2Eru%2Fshowthread%2Ephp%3Ft%3D135765&share_tid=135765&share_fid=74365&share_type=t

 

I think you're not seeing a lot of feedback because your argument doesn't really make sense. The information you're asking for is available. I'll give you the "why" you do things a certain way may be harder to ascertain, but it's built on years of doctrine from operators of the aircraft. But the "how" is clearly documented.

 

Post #2 is a generous offer which you may find useful.

 

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[Fri13]

I don't remember who made the "One minute tutorials" but I just say him to &%×"! himself from creating such great tutorials. Sad part is that some modules changes in early access a lot and you need to remake those tutorials often.

 

Why I like those is that one minute is good time to refresh your memory of something, instead 14-15min of same topic but lots of time to something else. At that point I grab a manual and read it myself...

 

--

I usually post from my phone so please excuse any typos, inappropriate punctuation and capitalization, missing words and general lack of cohesion and sense in my posts.....

[Supmua]

Watch Redkite's Harrier tutorial videos on youtube and read Chuck's guide. It's too complex to explain everything in one or two paragraphs. For now, just set INS to auto-align. You need ground power if you're planning to do the long startup sequence since battery will run out, just learn how to do a quick startup for now (again youtube). You'll need to do some readings for everything to make sense on the Harrier because it's kinda half jet half helicopter. And this is why I have some gripes with the current Harrier training missions, they're somewhat intimidating and not newcomer friendly.

 

Harrier is my favorite jet because it is so versatile (VTOL, multiple AG arsenals) and I recommend that you stick with it because it will be very rewarding in the end. I don't fly Russian planes so I'm not sure how simple/complex they are compared to Western counterparts but you don't really need to follow the whole protocol if you simply want to get the plane up in the air or shoot at things. Also remember it's still not a complete module...

Edited January 6, 2019 by Supmua

[Mars Exulte]

Personally, with a bit of poking around online anything that's not mentioned in the manual was easily found. You seem to be very knew here. ''Too long'' is not an acceptable excuse. If you're not willing to invest some time and effort you might as well leave now, because it's required.

 

The startup procedure hasn't changed THAT much. Based on my recent experiences, a few of the switches are already flipped, otherwise, you do the same thing. As for INS, I have not looked it up, but I believe you can select in options for it to be pre-aligned. A Google search should turn up the procedure regardless.

 

Everything else is in the manual. Read it. It's 'in English'.

[shagrat]

https://info.publicintelligence.net/AV-8B-000.pdf

 

...that is basically the USMC AV-8B Manual the pilots use, it works pretty well for the Sim.

 

As for the tactical employments (weapons) have a look here:

 

http://aviationarchives.blogspot.com/2016/05/av-8-harrier-tactical-manuals.html?m=1

 

If the original material is a bit too much, go for Chuck's guides or the manual from Razbam coming with the module.

[DmitriKozlowsky]

"There is something about Russian airplanes and overall war doctrine, they are way simpler, with way more common sense. I am coming off from that side of flying, and I am really struggling here with NATO planes. "

 

In DCS, Russian types are simpler to operate then high fidelity DC: level Western type. In DCS that is. With exception Mig-21bis, maybe DCS: L-39, and helicopter modules, Russian types in DCS are simpler Flaming Cliffs 3 fidelity modules. In real world, there is quite a bit work that a Russian (and Soviet prior to 1991) pilot has to do in the cockpit. Russian analogues of NATO equipment, are either missing in DCS FC3 types or those systems are automated, with no pilot/player interaction. Western type have higher multi-mission capability then comparable Russian types, and that disparity is amplified in DCS; However that expanded multi-mission role requires more training and practice. You need to RTFM and then practice and practice.

 

Simplicity can be an advantage, but you hit operational limitations faster then Western type.

[chaser]

I have never been more frustrated on DCS as I am with the Harrier.

 

We have gazillion YouTube videos, documentations, guides, who knows what else, but what we are missing is common sense.

 

I'm not the smartest person in the world and I just got my Harrier. I had no idea prior versions of the software did not HAVE INS Alignment option. I had no idea I had to align it, and I had no idea there is an option to change that in the DCS World as well. It took me all day to start and take off the airplane because every documentation is either old, unpractical, too long, or too short (showing off), or missing steps, or not realizing there are extra steps already SET.

 

So this is what I and other noobs would really appropriate:

 

1. Explain different types of take offs in the Harrier and why they are there, for what reason, and what loadouts are possible with them.

 

2. Explain different aircraft setups for different type of takes offs. What is that I need for vertical vs normal, or other?

 

3. Explain difference between INS alignment or auto alignment option SET. Why would I even need this in DCS?

 

4. Explain what this airplane needs for flying? What flaps setup? Auto, Cruise? What should I do with that H20 while flying? What nozzle setup for flying?

 

5. Do I even need ground power? Original documentation talks about Ground Power and APU start up, but no one does that it seems? What is the most practical way to start it?

 

I don't need you to show me the buttons, i can figure all this out myself. Just tell me in English what is that I need.

 

Please don't take my post in a negative way, I am trying to help you. The entire DCS is missing a top down view of things. There are way too many bugs, old docs, inconsistencies. Everyone out there has a different start up procedure and it's all wrong I noticed. This airplane is simple, but the documentation and guides are so complicated for no reason.

 

There is something about Russian airplanes and overall war doctrine, they are way simpler, with way more common sense. I am coming off from that side of flying, and I am really struggling here with NATO planes.

 

Put yourself in my shoes, no HOTAS setup, just installed the module, not knowing about past issues, and try getting it off the ground. You follow guides, instructions, videos, and nothing works because it is either outdated, or simply missing steps. You will see how hard it is for no reason.

 

I feel your pain

have you looked here ?

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=197787

 

They are pretty good, but if you don't hit the marks, the session does not carry on, which in its own right can be frustrating.

 

Im happy to help you with what little knowledge I have- I can get her off the ground and back down- navigate as well :) but thats about it

 

Feel free to PM me if I can help

Edited January 6, 2019 by chaser

[seagull1606688860]

Chuck's is the best solution to all your issues, really.

[VZ_342]

I don't remember who made the "One minute tutorials" but I just say him to &%×"! himself from creating such great tutorials. Sad part is that some modules changes in early access a lot and you need to remake those tutorials often.

 

Why I like those is that one minute is good time to refresh your memory of something, instead 14-15min of same topic but lots of time to something else. At that point I grab a manual and read it myself...

 

--

I usually post from my phone so please excuse any typos, inappropriate punctuation and capitalization, missing words and general lack of cohesion and sense in my posts.....

 

Crash Laobi?

 

Hooray! For the One-Minute tutorials!

[MrDieing]

You might want to calm down a bit before trying again next time lol

[joey45]

 

1. Explain different types of take offs in the Harrier and why they are there, for what reason, and what loadouts are possible with them.

Vertical = you'll probably not use this...

STO = Short Take Off / Rolling take off, roll down the runway and rotate the nozzles to take off

 

 

2. Explain different aircraft setups for different type of takes offs. What is that I need for vertical vs normal, or other?

 

3. Explain difference between INS alignment or auto alignment option SET. Why would I even need this in DCS?

Auto = ready to rock and roll on mission start, no waiting

Normal = For the purists out there who like pressing buttons and waiting 2 minutes..

 

4. Explain what this airplane needs for flying? What flaps setup? Auto, Cruise? What should I do with that H20 while flying? What nozzle setup for flying?

Flaps either in auto or cruise but mainly cruise.

H20 = only for landing and take off

 

5. Do I even need ground power? Original documentation talks about Ground Power and APU start up, but no one does that it seems? What is the most practical way to start it?

 

No ground power unless you want to save fuel and do the INS and other stuff

[Tholozor]

Flaps should only be in cruise mode for taxiing or air-to-air refueling. Normal flight operations are in AUTO. STO flaps for landing and taking off.

[Shadow_1stVFW]

Flaps should only be in cruise mode for taxiing or air-to-air refueling. Normal flight operations are in AUTO. STO flaps for landing and taking off.

I find flaps to be very drag inducing in combat and fly with them in cruise any time I'm fenced in. That's just me though.

 

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[jeffyd123]

as already mentioned.... RedKite's videos are very well done and he knows what he is doing. I have seen other videos that are wrong or take a 5 minute subject and stretch it out to an hour so the video creator can hear himself talk.

I find video training is best for general learning and getting Myself started.... Then I will read the manuals to gain further knowledge

[baltic_dragon]

Also remember guys that more interactive missions are being published weekly, check in the module or for the newest ones IN THIS THREAD. Simply follow the instructions on where to place them and enjoy!

[Fri13]

as already mentioned.... RedKite's videos are very well done and he knows what he is doing. I have seen other videos that are wrong or take a 5 minute subject and stretch it out to an hour so the video creator can hear himself talk.

I find video training is best for general learning and getting Myself started.... Then I will read the manuals to gain further knowledge

Almost in any tutorial, the right things should only be shown and not wrong ones.

 

Ie. Do not press this or that as this happens

 

But only focus to essential and the correct procedure. And forget the history and possibilities and alternatives methods and procedures etc..

 

That is why the "one minute" tutorials are great as you can just focus to essential and repeat it quickly, even while waiting a bus or taxi.

 

--

I usually post from my phone so please excuse any typos, inappropriate punctuation and capitalization, missing words and general lack of cohesion and sense in my posts.....

[jacobs]

Just read available documentation and youtube videos, stop complaining and requesting the community to teach you, as if we owe you anything...

[sze5003]

Redkite's videos, crash Laobi's videos, Chuck's guide for controls setup and simpler explanations. This is a study sim so I prefer the longer YouTube videos. It's not really an arcade game.

 

Baltic dragon mentioned in a post above about interactive training missions. All of this should get you going.

 

Also join the hoggit discord channel and ask people to fly with you they are very helpful.

[Fangsout]

I have never been more frustrated on DCS as I am with the Harrier.

 

We have gazillion YouTube videos, documentations, guides, who knows what else, but what we are missing is common sense.

 

I'm not the smartest person in the world and I just got my Harrier. I had no idea prior versions of the software did not HAVE INS Alignment option. I had no idea I had to align it, and I had no idea there is an option to change that in the DCS World as well. It took me all day to start and take off the airplane because every documentation is either old, unpractical, too long, or too short (showing off), or missing steps, or not realizing there are extra steps already SET.

 

So this is what I and other noobs would really appropriate:

 

1. Explain different types of take offs in the Harrier and why they are there, for what reason, and what loadouts are possible with them.

 

2. Explain different aircraft setups for different type of takes offs. What is that I need for vertical vs normal, or other?

 

3. Explain difference between INS alignment or auto alignment option SET. Why would I even need this in DCS?

 

4. Explain what this airplane needs for flying? What flaps setup? Auto, Cruise? What should I do with that H20 while flying? What nozzle setup for flying?

 

5. Do I even need ground power? Original documentation talks about Ground Power and APU start up, but no one does that it seems? What is the most practical way to start it?

 

I don't need you to show me the buttons, i can figure all this out myself. Just tell me in English what is that I need.

 

Please don't take my post in a negative way, I am trying to help you. The entire DCS is missing a top down view of things. There are way too many bugs, old docs, inconsistencies. Everyone out there has a different start up procedure and it's all wrong I noticed. This airplane is simple, but the documentation and guides are so complicated for no reason.

 

There is something about Russian airplanes and overall war doctrine, they are way simpler, with way more common sense. I am coming off from that side of flying, and I am really struggling here with NATO planes.

 

Put yourself in my shoes, no HOTAS setup, just installed the module, not knowing about past issues, and try getting it off the ground. You follow guides, instructions, videos, and nothing works because it is either outdated, or simply missing steps. You will see how hard it is for no reason.

 

 

I'm sure some of this has been covered, correctly or incorrectly, but I don't mind breaking some stuff down barney style for you.

 

1: There are 4 different types of takeoffs. Conventional, short takeoff (STO), Vertical takeoff (VTO), or the Rolling Vertical takeoff (RVTO). 90% of the time you will do a STO, and at the ship with weapons that's the only option. Conventional takeoffs are there primarily for crosswind limits. Vertical takeoffs are for landing practice mostly. You'll never have the performance with a full bag of gas or weapons to do one. RVTO's are basically an air show item and the fleet does not currently do them. Takeoffs with different loadouts will be determined by the aircraft weight when fully loaded.

 

2: Aircraft configuration for conventionals is nozzles at 10* (every takeoff starts this way) and auto flaps. The easiest to set up by far. Everything else will be with STO flaps. STOs and the RVTO will also require the STO stop to be set. Everything else as far as set up will be dictated by the VREST computer page. Not currently implemented is the ability to set an NRAS (nozzle rotation speed) or pitch carets (in the proper spot). Instead you'll need to take note in your head the NRAS and know to set the witch's hat at 6* on takeoff. With the witch's hat at 6* you'll have the level flight equivalent of 14 AOA which is why, if it were currently implemented in the game, you would put 14 in for the pitch carets. For vertical T/O's you will again need the performance based on what the VTO page in the VREST section on your AMPCD. Performance is calculated taking into account things like outside air temperature and barometric pressure set in your altimeter. Generally you're gonna need to be lower on fuel.

 

3: No idea about how DCS handles INS alignment, but in the real jet you would need to have the parking brake set and put the INS knob ( lower center stack ) to Ground. Check the EHSD to verify that alignment is counting down and then continue with your checklist. Near the end of the start checks, you will check the EHSD again to make sure it says OK and then you will put the INS knob to IFA (In flight alignment). This is the shore based procedure. There are other more complicated ways of fixing INS drift in flight if needed but I wont cover those.

 

4: Reference point 2 for takeoff configuration. You may need water for high performance STOs on takeoff but it should always be off when in wingborne flight. Water will not flow above 250 knots and you should get a water sel light if the switch is still on. Flaps will be in auto after takeoff and remain there until landing. Cruise flaps are rarely used except for tanking and to keep the jet blast from beating up the flaps while on deck. While flying, nozzles will be full aft unless being used to slow down during rendezvous's or emergencies, BFM (very varsity), and during landings. Your takeoff should go like this.

 

1. take the runway
   
2. Conduct 1 finger checks
   
3. Get takeoff clearance
   
4. Conduct 2 finger checks
   
5. Conduct your STO
   
6. Level the wings, center the vane, set the attitude on the pitch carets (6*)
   
7. nozzle out to 25*
   
8. Gear - up, flaps - auto
   
9. Nozzles aft
   
10. Double check flaps are programmed up and nozzles aft on heads down indicator and in the HUD.
    
11. NAV master mode.
    

 

5: APU translational starts are rarely used except for when hot seating, so dont worry about them. GTS starts are SOP and you follow the NATOPS checklist for those. Several things in the NATOPS checklist aren't implemented in the sim. I have my own flow because the NATOPS checklist is very inefficient, but that's a little more varsity. ANTTP timeline for start and getting out of the line is 10 minutes. The only people who do anything with ground power are the maintainers.

 

You didn't ask, but there are 7 landings too.

 

If you think learning to fly the DCS Harrier is complicated and hard, try flying the real thing! There's a reason they only take the best out of flight school. Hope this clears some stuff up for you.

Edited January 9, 2019 by Fangsout

[daemon1808]

I'm a bit frustrated with the Harrier INS too. I am not able to align it in any way after many tries. I am having two problems:

1. Many vids explain that you need to connect groung power, but I am not able to connect to grown team. How they are contact? the "ground team" option always appear in grey, even if I turn on the radio and contact the tower.

2. Nevertheless I am trying to align INS without connecting groud power. But I can't: I enter Data->A/C submenus and insert coordinates, but the harrier refuses them. After I click ENT key, the coordinates are reset to 00'00'00 in the frontal display and are not stored in the system. The funy thing is that I can set the mag variation without any problem O_O

 

The manual does not help, I am following the steps, but it doesn't work. What I am doing wrong?

[KTFBGB]

I'm a bit frustrated with the Harrier INS too. I am not able to align it in any way after many tries. I am having two problems:

1. Many vids explain that you need to connect groung power, but I am not able to connect to grown team. How they are contact? the "ground team" option always appear in grey, even if I turn on the radio and contact the tower.

2. Nevertheless I am trying to align INS without connecting groud power. But I can't: I enter Data->A/C submenus and insert coordinates, but the harrier refuses them. After I click ENT key, the coordinates are reset to 00'00'00 in the frontal display and are not stored in the system. The funy thing is that I can set the mag variation without any problem O_O

 

The manual does not help, I am following the steps, but it doesn't work. What I am doing wrong?

 

You don’t enter coordinates to align the INS. It doesn’t know where it is until it’s aligned. If you are in the ground, after making sure the parking break is set, you flip the INS knob to GND align, you go to data and the A/C to see that the timer is counting down eventually to where it says OK. The alignment is done by the gyros on the Aircraft not by you. It takes 3 min.

 

If you are on the boat, you ask the ground crew to connect ground power which connect the data cable from the ship. You flip the INS knob to SEA Align. The data cable aligns the INS to the ships INS as it wouldn’t be possible to get an accurate alignment with a pitching ship at sea using the gyros on the plane.

[Razor18]

I'm a bit frustrated with the Harrier INS too. I am not able to align it in any way after many tries. I am having two problems:

1. Many vids explain that you need to connect groung power, but I am not able to connect to grown team. How they are contact? the "ground team" option always appear in grey, even if I turn on the radio and contact the tower.

 

 

Push Ground Team option despite being greyed out please.

[daemon1808]

Push Ground Team option despite being greyed out please.

 

I have found in the end that they are there, even if the option is grey. Thank you!