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When will they fix the flight model?

Awesomejlee

By Awesomejlee
in Bugs and Problems

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Awesomejlee

Awesomejlee

Posted
Posted (edited)

Before I say anything, I'm a Hornet pilot mainly.

 

Did some testing tonight, at 10,000 ASL, x2 AIM 9s and x2 AIM 7s, 60% internal fuel.

It sustained 14.7 degrees per second at around mach 0.8, and around 7G. According to all charts I can find (which, granted, aren't the real charts, but one I used is supposedly BASED on the real charts) it should do just over 13 degrees per second.

ED, you don't have to artificially inflate the performance of the jet to sell it. Please, please give us the correct performance. Going by the Viper's real charts it shouldn't be out rated by a Hornet in this scenario.

Edited by Awesomejlee
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Esac_mirmidon

Esac_mirmidon

Posted
Posted (edited)

It could be helpful to add a track, a tacview file, something to check your results, before claiming ED is inflating anything.

Edited by Esac_mirmidon

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EricJ

EricJ

Posted
Posted (edited)

A lot of FM stuff is probably looking  at a video and trying as best as possible to mimic the real life version.  I know for my Super Hornet project for another game the FM guy based it off of airshow videos and  the like. It'll never be accurate because probably that's classified information or not accessible to ED on actual performance. Even with it out of service there are still layers of secrets that probably will never see public viewing. I mean are you a real Hornet pilot to judge? Probably not like I am. So it'll  be "wrong" in some sense. They can only do so much.

Edited by EricJ
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Hulkbust44

Hulkbust44

Posted
Posted

"Going by the Viper's real charts it shouldn't be out rated by a Hornet in this scenario."

False. You need the documents for our up-engined Hornet with the 402s. 
A clean Hornet should slightly out rate the Viper in sustained level turn just as it does now. It's not enough of an advantage for aviators to train to in the real world, but it's there.
 

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MARLAN_

MARLAN_

Posted
Posted

Hornet seems to match pretty well in DCS as far as I can tell, the only thing missing is some g onset/pitch authority at higher speeds.

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Awesomejlee

Awesomejlee

Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)
58 minutes ago, BIGNEWY said:

please be careful not to post information from real world documents. PM me if necessary 

thanks

That wasn't a real world document. I guess, since you consider it real, that it is accurate, and that the FM is, indeed, wrong.

 

Anyway, I guess if you want my source, PM me. And if you have charts I should see, send them to me.

Edited by Awesomejlee
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BIGNEWY

BIGNEWY

Posted
  • ED Team
Posted
25 minutes ago, Awesomejlee said:

That wasn't a real world document

The document said it had used values from real world documents so we have to be careful 

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Awesomejlee

Awesomejlee

Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, BIGNEWY said:

 

Gotcha.

 

Well, if anyone has documents that state the Hornet should perform as it does, I would really like to see them. Just send me a PM please!

Edited by Awesomejlee
Rudel_chw

Rudel_chw

Posted
Posted

Is 1.7 degrees/sec significant enough to warrant this thread? ... particularly in light that the OP only reference is: "according to all charts I can find (which, granted, aren't the real charts ..." 🙄

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EricJ

EricJ

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Rudel_chw said:

Is 1.7 degrees/sec significant enough to warrant this thread? ... particularly in light that the OP only reference is: "according to all charts I can find (which, granted, aren't the real charts ..." 🙄

Agreed.

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Mikaa

Mikaa

Posted
Posted (edited)

Only FM bugs I can think of are a few little tweaks like the AOA shift when crossing the deck (3PTS EGIW), the lack of FBW assisted lateral stability with gear down and flaps full, and some high alpha tendencies, like the pirouette maneuver that ED is currently investigating. AFAIK the rest of the envelope is dang close to the RL charts for the 402's. 

 

 

Edited by Mikaa
captain_dalan

captain_dalan

Posted
Posted
On 4/27/2022 at 1:02 AM, Rudel_chw said:

Is 1.7 degrees/sec significant enough to warrant this thread? ... particularly in light that the OP only reference is: "according to all charts I can find (which, granted, aren't the real charts ..." 🙄

You're kidding, right?
A 30% increase of static installed trust in another plane resulted in less STR increase ASL, and you are telling me that 1.7 (if indeed so) at 10kft is not worth the attention? Mate, that kind of change would make for whole different plane 😆

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Rudel_chw

Rudel_chw

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, captain_dalan said:

A 30% increase of static installed trust in another plane resulted in less STR increase ASL

 

Well, 13º vs 14.7º is only about 13% difference ...  so, yeah, I find this quite a bit of nitpicking  🤔

 

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Blinky.ben

Blinky.ben

Posted
Posted (edited)
40 minutes ago, Rudel_chw said:

 

Well, 13º vs 14.7º is only about 13% difference ...  so, yeah, I find this quite a bit of nitpicking  🤔

Other way around would it be the same attitude? Just a statement, No answer required as this will always be considered a biased topic.

 

however in the Gaming world with members competing would you happily accept your opponent have a 13% advantage which shouldn’t be there?

 

There is more comments from real proven fighter pilots which are qualified and experienced in both airframes that state the difference between the two is wrong, which aircraft is wrong no one seems to point out which. The problem tho is the F-18 flight data seems to be harder to come across so it would seem ED have had to fudge some numbers for guess work, The F-16 seems to have more data available so it seems they can get closer to the real thing. Now if anyone points out the difference is wrong between the two ED simply shut down the topic and say prove it with data that your not allowed to us to prove anything, so we have a situation where your not allowed to prove the current situation incorrect by the rules created by ED which are for valid reasons.

 

personally I only fly both in war style servers so guns only fighting means nothing to me but double standards grinds my gears.

Edited by Blinky.ben
  • Like 4
captain_dalan

captain_dalan

Posted
Posted
On 4/29/2022 at 12:54 AM, Rudel_chw said:

 

Well, 13º vs 14.7º is only about 13% difference ...  so, yeah, I find this quite a bit of nitpicking  🤔

If only the alpha induced drag dependency was linear and with a shallow slope.....alas, while the excess power available relation to sustained turn rate is, relation to drag  isn't.
In the above mentioned example, the 30% increase in installed static thrust resulted in a 0.75 deg/s difference (about 5% increase) at 10000ft and 0.85 deg/s difference (again about 5% increase - no big surprise there) at 5000ft. 
Even after adjusting for the extra weight gained by the aircraft over their lifespan, the increase in STR (or any higher angle of attack related metric really)  due to increase in thrust in relative units is going to remain in single digits. At best 8-9% BUT with lower fuel margins on ordnance/payload available. For similar configurations, the increase is more likely to drop to 3-4%. 

So....no, a 13% difference is not a slight oversight. IF and i must emphasize that if, the OP's data is remotely accurate (which might as well not be), a discrepancy of that margin is enough to warrant a new plane. Degree and half difference is a lot, even at sea level. At 10000ft? It's unheard of.  
 

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Figaro9

Figaro9

Posted
Posted

OPs plots are from another game as already correctly stated above. And they were proven incorrect when the famous gao report was released. Mstr in those game-plots are 2dps (!) below the official dod figures. Mstr for the epe hornet is rather close to the -200sep curve (33325lbs/ 2*2 FE). Those gamers were lacking 2 degreese per second compared to the real jet! EDs performance in that regard is 'correct as is' based on available data.

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