waiting for resolution RAZBAM Situation Post Archive (will be deleted)

[SkateZilla]

4 hours ago, BJ55 said:

Excuse me, but the term "time bomb" is not always referred to malware:

"In computer software, a time bomb is part of a computer program that has been written so that it will start or stop functioning after a predetermined date or time is reached. The term "time bomb" does not refer to a program that stops functioning a specific number of days after it is installed; instead, the term "trialware" applies. Time bombs are commonly used in beta (pre-release) software when the manufacturer of the software does not want the beta version being used after the final release date. One example of time bomb software would be Microsoft's Windows Vista Beta 2, which was programmed to expire on May 31, 2007. The time limits on time bomb software are not usually as heavily enforced as they are on trial software, since time bomb software does not usually implement secure clock functions."

 

I'm not gonna drag this thread in tangents, based off what wikipedia is telling you vs what I know from experience.

That being said, there's also no proof that either scenario is what the current situation is, for all we know, there could have been a typo mistaking a date for a value or something along those lines.

But:
Timebombs run code after the timer reaches zero, which is started during install update or launch, can be defused by code or key being inserted to reset or disable timer.
DMS disables code when reaching a pre determined hard date, can only be fixed by re-compiling and moving the DMS Date further back.

Vista Beta 2 is not the same situation, I was part of that test, there is also a defuse / developer deactivation prompt in b2.
The day VB2 Ended, System.Environment.Date was checked, and if that Date was >= End of beta it ran the code to put up the lock screen, you needed to download and install a newer copy over the old one or enter the developer key. VB2 was honestly a TB, but the timer was not run on your system, instead it was run on MS's and you synced to it when you activated your copy.

Since everyone's F-15E was disabled on the same day, and not a specific time after they updated, it's not a time bomb.
The definition is in it's name TIME BOMB, It literally counts down, then executes code.

There's also the fact, time bombs have defuse keys used to reset or disable said timer, have you seen any thing released to restore your F-15E Radar systems yet? Nope.
There's also the fact that it's not running code because it's after 6/13/24, no extra code is being ran when i look at memory dumps, it's the opposite, if after 6/13/24, specific radar functions are simply not being ran at all.

Edited June 18, 2024 by SkateZilla

[Gary]

Hi,

Now we have a single thread setting out the facts, can I request one small but crucial clarification please?

The OP starts with this statement.

The first knowledge of the disagreement happened with an announcement on the RAZBAM DIscord here:

Should the above statement not include the word "public" after the word "first" - otherwise it would appear that ED only raised the IP violation allegations with RB when they went public with their claims of not being paid.

My faith in ED's conduct would be strengthened if it could just be confirmed ED had raised the IP issue with RB well before any disagreement went public please?

If ED did indeed only raise the IP issue after RB went public about payment, then that makes a big differance to me personally.

 

Kind Regards,

Gary

[boedha68]

Thamks for the info @NineLine. Hope for a good outcome for RB, ED and our whole community that's so dedicated at DCS. 

[BIGNEWY]

6 minutes ago, Gary said:

Hi,

Now we have a single thread setting out the facts, can I request one small but crucial clarification please?

The OP starts with this statement.

The first knowledge of the disagreement happened with an announcement on the RAZBAM DIscord here:

Should the above statement not include the word "public" after the word "first" - otherwise it would appear that ED only raised the IP violation allegations with RB when they went public with their claims of not being paid.

My faith in ED's conduct would be strengthened if it could just be confirmed ED had raised the IP issue with RB well before any disagreement went public please?

If ED did indeed only raise the IP issue after RB went public about payment, then that makes a big differance to me personally.

 

Kind Regards,

Gary

Edited for clarity

thanks

[Feverdog]

I doubt RB would be daft enough to plant a time bomb intentionally into the code, if so then they must surely tarnish all trust with the other companies they work with

IF I opt for a refund credit however, I received my F15 on a YouTube giveaway, so does that mean the credit will only go to the person who gave me it? Or will I receive the full value myself (obv not knowing how the YouTuber funded this either)

 

Id likely opt for the Chinook or Afghanistan with the credit I think, and rebuy the f15 once dramas are over

[speed-of-heat]

Thanks for the update and the transparency

[Guille H. Mono]

I want to thank 9Line and BigN for their time and for keeping this open. 

When trying to look for some info out there in the last 2 months I ended up in places full of people who have had no joy with DCS for years and are fully emotionaly invested in ED's failure. I is not about being optimistic or pesimist, they won't allow anyone enjoy or have hope.

I know how frustrating, personal or absurd it got along those 90 pages but at least we have a place with a sense of community wich may have very different opinions but have not lost the sense of a common goal.

 

[Fulgrim]

Hey 9L, just want to say congrats: this is a brilliant example on how to communicate any crisis situation. It is clear, direct, it answers every answerable question, and lays out the next steps. Kudos to the team.

It is unfortunate that this style of communication didn't come sooner, but I'm very optimist that this will mark the standard for future ED messages, and I encourage you to use it as a base to also communicate the platform roadmap.

Thanks.

[felixx75]

On no, here come the next 80 pages of speculation and conspiracy theories...

[Brainfreeze]

Razbam modules are some of the best / most accomplished modules for DCS.  Both Mirage and Harrier are gems. The F15E is just incredible so far.  The ED Razbam partnership is old and should never have broken in this fashion.  Seeing this bad soap opera unravel for what optically looks like a pissing competition between two CEOs at the expense of their developers and us, customers, is saddening and put the ED business model and partner model in a bad light.  

To add insult to injury, every update from ED tends to break something in most modules, including theirs, which means a module is heavy maintenance for the developper.  Old missions, campaigns etc nothing works after a few updates.  As a result, older modules become obsoletes as dev focus on newer ones.  A sad reality that commercial sense will ensure lives on forever.

Edited June 18, 2024 by Brainfreeze

[felixx75]

11 minutes ago, Fulgrim said:

Hey 9L, just want to say congrats: this is a brilliant example on how to communicate any crisis situation. It is clear, direct, it answers every answerable question, and lays out the next steps. Kudos to the team.

It is unfortunate that this style of communication didn't come sooner, but I'm very optimist that this will mark the standard for future ED messages, and I encourage you to use it as a base to also communicate the platform roadmap.

Thanks.

This is remarkable, because there is absolutely nothing in this post that was not already known (if you had informed yourself even a little).

[ColinM9991]

9 minutes ago, felixx75 said:

On no, here come the next 80 pages of speculation and conspiracy theories...

Wake up SHEEPLE! The F-15E never existed. You're living in the matrix!

This thread is a nice collation of known info. Personally, I'd say it came too late. ED should have created this a long time ago, before the conspiracies could spiral, to do some damage control. Then again, ED usually is late in responding to things or taking control of a situation.

 

Nonetheless, it's a welcomed thread. I hope ED is transparent and a bit better prepared moving forwards - within reason of course, I don't expect to hear about any legally sensitive points.

Edited June 18, 2024 by ColinM9991

[BJ55]

@SkateZilla : thanks for the detailed explanation.

[Renko]

11 hours ago, NineLine said:

Some Anti-Virus programs were picking up a false positive on some DCS DLLs. Sadly it seemed to be worse on some of the RAZBAM modules fueling fears of issues with the modules. This can be solved by adding the DCS install folder to the exceptions for your anti-virus software, this happens from time to time so this was nothing new.

I have been a PC user for many many years, and I have never seen a software company ask users to exclude their installation folder from their antivirus permanently.
Maybe in some cases as a temporary fix while they work on a solution, but not permanently to avoid problems.

May I ask if ED as a company is officially asking this, to permanently exclude from our antivirus checks your installation software folder?
I know there is nothing malicious behind this, just some certificate issues or related.
But can't I expect ED as a company to keep those things up to date so that I as a user don't have to resort to that solution permanently?
 

Regards

[Feller-Buncher]

I just read this.

https://discord.com/channels/536389125276827660/544295251116949526/1248970962292969502

"anyway the refound of ED is in miles form"
Please mind that it is not my spelling up there.....it's a quote.

 

But is that true?

[Panny]

This is a rant, but I want to at least put down the perspective of those from the milsim community who tend to get the most out of what DCS has to offer.

Without being cringe, for many of us our fun with the sim borderlines being a part-time job in which we invest thousands of hours in administration, drafting documentation, training resources and sessions. For many of us we painstakingly work to build tight knit communities to put on immersive events in which we pour our heart and soul into the module. There are lots of people like this, whether server admins, mission makers, community mods or whatever. We all know that there's a fair chunk of us who invest an unhealthy amount of time into this platform and it is probably more important in our lives than it should be lol.

The last year with the F-15E has been no different, and arguably even more than usual as we have been lucky to receive pioneering features from RB that no other module has. It is a magnitude of an understatement to say that the guys who fly the Strike Eagle in DCAF absolutely adore the module and what it offers. 

I'm not going to go into the specific dispute between RB and ED - it's not my business and I have to imagine it's painful for all the parties involved.

But, if for whatever reason the radar breaking was intentional - what an utterly, utterly, utterly stupid thing to do. I know there's a high chance that the actor is probably reading this thread. Aside from some free grab of spite so they can feel good about themselves, it has caused a fair amount of anguish for those who have committed tons of time working virtual squadrons in DCS. Looking at the past year, and personally knowing how much I've committed to get the best out of this incredible module to be wasted away because someone felt spiteful and chose to brick things is infuriating.

I know others who are in a similar position to me and I'm sure they feel very similarly. It is really gut wrenching now when my squadron mates are asking what we should do, or jump ship and have to restart the process of building a new syllabus. I know people who are in my group specifically because of the friends that they made - and may not be prepared to stay with us if we have to stop flying the Eagle. These are friendships no less that are valuable to me and frankly is the core reason that I fly DCS now.

Beyond some vent of spite to whichever party, if this radar bug was designed to break I can only reason that the actor did it to have a moment of selfish catharsis. I would strongly suggest (again, if this was intentional), that you reconsider your action and resolve it for the damage that you are causing, right now, to communities that are likely to fragment and fall apart. I understand the rest of the dispute has to be solved at its own pace and that's fine. But bricking the module outright(I know about the system time fix, people won't do that forever) is a poor decision and has many real side effects that are impacting those who love the module the most. This move was not 'GENIUS' and only serves to harm any possibility of resolution, and any sympathy/understanding from the wider community.

Thanks.

[AdrianL]

4 minutes ago, Feller-Buncher said:

But is that true?

From the ED Store, you get store credit. That can then be used to purchase any module. 

[Panny]

APG-70 my beloved

 

 

[SkateZilla]

22 minutes ago, Feller-Buncher said:

I just read this.

https://discord.com/channels/536389125276827660/544295251116949526/1248970962292969502

"anyway the refound of ED is in miles form"
Please mind that it is not my spelling up there.....it's a quote.

 

But is that true?

Incorrect,

ED Miles are rewards points from purchases,

The Refund is Dollar Value in your ED Wallet. *IE Store Credit*, It's completely separate from Miles.

[Brody]

23 minutes ago, Panny said:

[..] perspective of those from the milsim community [..] what an utterly, utterly, utterly stupid thing to do [..]

+1

[BIGNEWY]

Once you have a store credit you will see it on your account like this under internal account.

[Rhinozherous]

Thank you for making an official sum up of the situation. 

[GUCCI]

Please.. Come together for your dedicated, loyal users- we devote hours of our lives and hard earned money to admire and enjoy these beautiful virtual modules, the RB team along with Notso poured their hearts into making a truly unique module- the F15E is a work of art and was a turning point for Razbam, proving that they are very capable devs. Eagle Dynamics and Razbam has worked together for so long, how could such a thing happen to disrupt that relation.. it saddens me to see so much vitriol thrown from both camps- when at the end of the day, we should all be united instead of divided and fighting each other. ED and RB need to come together with an amicable solution, for the sake of everyone involved. Those of Us who’ve spent hundreds of hours flying the Jet, learning it inside out and the Milsim squadrons who work so hard to fly like the real strike squadrons; and lastly a shoutout to an incredibly talented livery maker, Vasy who’s liveries I always use- we all deserve a working, operational, and continued product. The future was incredibly bright for this one, it doesn’t deserve to die incomplete. DCS NEEDS the Harrier, the Mirage, the Strike Eagle- and I also cannot state enough how much Cold War era DCS needs the MiG 19 too. The F15E is such an important and iconic teen fighter, its loss would be a crushing blow. Please do take care of yourselves and remember that we’re all in this together, it’s better to get through it peacefully than fight. 

we want to fly, don’t let us die.

thank you

-Gucci 

Edited June 18, 2024 by GUCCI

[andyn]

It sure looks like ED's escrow safeguards were not sufficient.

I propose that third party agreements are modified so that ED builds EFM .dlls themselves from the source code from now on.

[Viper33]

Since it does not seem like neither ED nor Razbam are going to be able to fulfill their part of the contract to customers when it comes to finishing and patching the F-15E within a foreseeable timeframe I think it is safe to request refunds for said product. The amount of bs this community had to put up with ED over the years is astonishing and any good will that has been built up again over the years is now gone. This truly has to be the icing on the cake. The F-15E was a breath of fresh air in DCS and you could tell how passionate said developers were about it - especially things like radar model, sounds and art-details put any ED module to shame. It was what got me back into and excited for this sim once again. Now that this module has been killed off and has no future anymore (and I wish I was naive enough to believe otherwise) I personally don't see myself investing into this platform any longer and putting up with even more crap and excuses from ED (see the painful Viper and Hornet development). I am sure Steam will be able to issue refunds given this piece of evidence. 

Good riddance!