DCS World Patch Notes Discussion Thread

[Snappy]

Reminds me of something...

..

After all it's a beta. Things do go wrong. I know we all wish such game braking things like the barely visible HUDs or now almost invincible aircraft or even performance issues wouldn't even occur in the open beta versions. But having those things tested internally would delay fixing other problems even more and eat up manhours as well. I wouldn't want to have the HUDs issue for 2-4 weeks TBH. Of course it shouldn't be there in the first place though. But remember all those "but it was supposed to be released in April" posts? Whichever ED choses to do, it's always wrong in some regard. They literally have to do one of those "mistakes"... "

 

 

Err, are you actually saying they should intentionally push buggy stuff out the door because testing it would delay things and take more manhours to check it thoroughly before release ??

 

Do you see the logical flaw in that? How many newly required manhours got generated by this bugged update,which now in turn requires another update/hotfix ,which by your logic should again be pushed out without adequate testing, resulting likely in new broken stuff..

 

If you ask me ED has a quality management issue and not a small one at times.Or maybe the Spaghetti code has become so convoluted thats its impossible to quality-check it adequately anymore.

Which would be really bad, because right now it already feels like the bugs pile up faster than the fixing can keep up and don't even get me started on the persistent old bugs that are never really adressed and ported to stable.

I mean, its not like the people who paid for the F-5 or FC3 are less valuable customers for example. Some basic care to those products and I m not talking upgrades, but fixing stuff thats been broken for a long time would be very nice.

 

 

And regarding "they have to do one of those mistakes". Maybe so, but it how about building much more buffer into their announcements for starters, especially given their track record of busting dead lines big time.

They should know by now that they're likely to bust their own estimates time and again. So double or triple those estimates for starters.

 

If you underpromote and over-deliver in the end , even better.

 

Regards,

 

Snappy

Edited June 10, 2020 by Snappy

[wilbur81]

Hi all

 

we have reported the issues to the team and they are discussing and working out what went wrong. At this point a hot fix is being considered and as soon as I know more I will let you all know.

 

thanks

 

Thanks, Scott!

[The_Pharoah]

Err, are you actually saying they should intentionally push buggy stuff out the door because testing it would delay things and take more manhours to check it thoroughly before release ??

 

Do you see the logical flaw in that? How many newly required manhours got generated by this bugged update,which now in turn requires another update/hotfix ,which by your logic should again be pushed out without adequate testing, resulting likely in new broken stuff..

 

If you ask me ED has a quality management issue and not a small one at times.

 

And regarding "they have to do one of those mistakes". Maybe so, but it how about putting much more buffer into their announcements, especially given their track record of busting dead lines big time.They should know by now that they're likely to bust their own estimates time and again. So double or triple those estimates for starters.

 

If you underpromote and over-deliver in the end , even better.

 

Regards,

 

Snappy

 

This. C'mon ED....this has happened multiple times in the past. We get all frustrated then the big boss comes out to calm us down and your COO does another reddit post to keep the communication channels open, and ask us to be calm and work with you guys to improve.

Then you go and do it again. You guys ask us to trust you but you break more stuff than you fix. And don't roll out the whole 'but this is EA'.

 

C'mon ED, get your house in order.

[Fri13]

Part of my job is software development actually. I like to think I know better than pushing something this broken, but I do admit that the stuff I develop is far simpler than DCS.

 

You can push whatever you want to beta, as it is suppose to be for testers only. As long you do not brake it so badly that it can't be tested at all (you can't start the software, you can't even test the new feature to be tested etc), or you can release fix ASAP to get critical errors fixed.

 

"Release Early, Release Often".

 

And in that loop a one week is too long. It really should be nightly process between real testers and developers, that likely is for the closed beta testers (I hope so), as quickly they can just compile the code basically.

 

For a weekly Open Beta I wouldn't release anything that can't be launched, but if it can be and it can be found how new features brakes things, it is just successful testing as long you get the proper information back in bug reports and then fix it.

 

But how many here really is doing a proper bug reporting to actually replicate the errors and show what is the matter? That is why developers wants the track file so they don't need to do anything than check the code, yet so many doesn't have it.

 

So sure it is nice that in these discussion threads people say "This doesn't work", it is point to right direction, but if developers don't even react to those discussions, it doesn't help even if there would be a track files.

 

My friend works for FORTUNE 500 company and is team manager for one large software project. And they had just last year a massive problem with small bug in release, worked over weekend to fix it and it was estimated to cost over 200 million euros if they didn't manage to reverse the update in few hours to previous version, costing just few millions. And that was a update that they had worked for over a year. And problem was somewhere completely elsewhere than the software.

 

It is not fun when you run tests, you have it running right at servers in simulated environment and you start to transition to live servers when suddenly something happens that isn't suppose to.

 

I get tremors even by thinking that I would get a call from such situation if responsible for it...

 

Why all entertainment software is easier to forgive for all kind bugs etc and just laugh about it if something doesn't work when considering the relativity of consequences.

One week without DCS is not a problem, especially if it is only one feature in one module. And not even if it is whole DCS for one week. But it does start to irritate when it is one critical feature in one module for years....

[blue281269]

a hot fix is needed asap for the f18 a/a radar as well as a fix for the ddi and mfd lighting in open beta, the hornet is useless otherwise, as most of dcs users use the open beta not stable

[rwbishUP]

can we at least have a way to roll back to the previous subversion, because the usual way ISN'T WORKING

[rwbishUP]

can we at least have a way to roll back to the previous subversion, because the usual way ISN'T WORKING

[pacastro]

How to update/roll back to a specific DCS version:

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=114030

[Mikeck]

Can’t roll back to last OB patch with Steam version....but you can roll back to the stable version. At least you can use your radar and - you know- actually shoot down aircraft with your big-boy missles

[NineLine]

a hot fix is needed asap for the f18 a/a radar as well as a fix for the ddi and mfd lighting in open beta, the hornet is useless otherwise, as most of dcs users use the open beta not stable

 

Soon as the team lets us know what the plan is going forward we will let you all know as well. Thanks!

[The_Pharoah]

Soon as the team lets us know what the plan is going forward we will let you all know as well. Thanks!

 

thank you

[Vertigo72]

Do you see the logical flaw in that? How many newly required manhours got generated by this bugged update,which now in turn requires another update/hotfix ,which by your logic should again be pushed out without adequate testing, resulting likely in new broken stuff..

 

The problem is that a beta would even require any hotfixes and that users demand it, because everyone uses the beta. A beta release is supposed to be for testing. Raise your hand if you start DCS open beta with the goal of actually finding bugs and reporting them? I bet close to no one does. Instead we use the beta as if it where the regular version. Because we dont want to wait for the super carrier. Or our early access module. Or that feature that we have been waiting 6 months for. Or in some cases because the stable version has some major issue that is fixed in the OB, but that is much rarer and those are the only things that would warrant hot fixes.

 

And then there is the worst possible reason to run OB, which includes me; I run the open beta because everyone else does and all the good servers run open beta. And then it becomes truly problematic. Any half finished feature or update that the breaks the game play, ruins the game for almost everyone. There effectively no longer is a beta branch where developers can safely introduce potentially or actually breaking changes or in progress features (when they have side effects) , and all the issues are discovered not by testers testing the game, but by upset gamers trying to play the game.

 

Now you can blame early access / presales for users expecting to be able to run OB without major issues and you can blame ED for a ton of things, but seriously, they need to change this pattern where the beta has to be treated as critical and is not used for actual testing. They must either start treating the beta as if its a release version and thus do all the major changes and introduce new features in a pre beta, but thats rather silly, whats the point of the stable version then. Or they have to curb the (ab)use of OB by all of us, and somehow get back to a point where the beta is used for testing, and stable is used by most people for playing the game.

[UWBuRn]

I don't know if this was already posted somewhere else or if it's just my problem (strange, as i have no mods), but since last update on some occasions i cannot see runway and taxi markings anymore. It happened a few times in caucasus map, reloading the mission seems to fix it.

 

Should i file a bug report in the bug section or is already aknowledged?

[falcon_120]

The problem is that a beta would even require any hotfixes and that users demand it, because everyone uses the beta. A beta release is supposed to be for testing. Raise your hand if you start DCS open beta with the goal of actually finding bugs and reporting them? I bet close to no one does. Instead we use the beta as if it where the regular version. Because we dont want to wait for the super carrier. Or our early access module. Or that feature that we have been waiting 6 months for. Or in some cases because the stable version has some major issue that is fixed in the OB, but that is much rarer and those are the only things that would warrant hot fixes.

 

And then there is the worst possible reason to run OB, which includes me; I run the open beta because everyone else does and all the good servers run open beta. And then it becomes truly problematic. Any half finished feature or update that the breaks the game play, ruins the game for almost everyone. There effectively no longer is a beta branch where developers can safely introduce potentially or actually breaking changes or in progress features (when they have side effects) , and all the issues are discovered not by testers testing the game, but by upset gamers trying to play the game.

 

Now you can blame early access / presales for users expecting to be able to run OB without major issues and you can blame ED for a ton of things, but seriously, they need to change this pattern where the beta has to be treated as critical and is not used for actual testing. They must either start treating the beta as if its a release version and thus do all the major changes and introduce new features in a pre beta, but thats rather silly, whats the point of the stable version then. Or they have to curb the (ab)use of OB by all of us, and somehow get back to a point where the beta is used for testing, and stable is used by most people for playing the game.

 

Yes, totally true. People, myself included think of the OB as "THE GAME" instead of the test environment. And everybody in MP are on this version so its your only choice if you are a MP guy.

 

This patch was bad, maybe something went wrong, but people should remember that this was an Open Beta patch.

[Sunscreen]

I don't know if this was already posted somewhere else or if it's just my problem (strange, as i have no mods), but since last update on some occasions i cannot see runway and taxi markings anymore. It happened a few times in caucasus map, reloading the mission seems to fix it.

 

Should i file a bug report in the bug section or is already aknowledged?

 

This also happened to me on the beta but also happened before yesterday's patch, but only in the beta. I have rolled back to the stable version because of this and a few other issues (damage model) although the ai crashing into me is an issue now. Does anyone know the last stable version where the ai doesnt crash into the back of the player?

 

The beta has a lot of good stuff going for it aside from the obvious issues. Once those are addressed I'll be moving back to it.

[BIGNEWY]

Good morning all,

 

As soon as I have any news today I will share it with you all.

 

thanks

[imacken]

Does anyone know the last stable version where the ai doesnt crash into the back of the player?

 

Pretty sure the previous stable - 2.5.5.41371 - didn't have the issue.

[Sunscreen]

Pretty sure the previous stable - 2.5.5.41371 - didn't have the issue.

 

Thanks :thumbup:

[BIGNEWY]

Some news,

 

we are planning a hot fix for today the 11th of June

 

thank you for your patience

[imacken]

Great news, BN! Thanks a lot. Is this just for the Hornet radar?

[amalahama]

I hope the damage model gets fixed as well. Anyway, thank you for the prompt response ED!

[blue281269]

ddi l/r and the mfd, as in sunlight the text is unreadable

[amalahama]

ddi l/r and the mfd, as in sunlight the text is unreadable

 

As in RL...

[sirrah]

As in RL...

 

But in real life we can use our hands to cast shadows :smilewink:

 

 

Thanks for the update BN

[Dunx]

As in RL...

 

In RL you have meaty tools that you can use to reduce the glare on the screen :)