announced DCS MiG-29A

[BIGNEWY]

A reminder to all here. 

No political discussion on the ED forum. It will get deleted.

Keep the topic about the DCS only 

thank you 

[Hammer1-1]

so is this thing still going to happen? its been one big conflicting argument for a while now.

[NineLine]

5 hours ago, Hammer1-1 said:

so is this thing still going to happen? its been one big conflicting argument for a while now.

100% for sure maybe. 

[Hammer1-1]

25 minutes ago, NineLine said:

100% for sure maybe. 

can we get at least a probability scale on this? we talkin' like chances of getting hit by lightning, Yellowstone erupting, mac and cheese for dinner, or confirmation of the Fermi Paradox?

[okopanja]

1 hour ago, NineLine said:

100% for sure maybe. 

I gather we have to wait for ED''s equivalent of May 9th parade since this is how Soviets did it.

 

[PLAAF]

So what's the word now? This FF MiG-29 project is still ongoing, right?

[Ironhand]

7 hours ago, Hammer1-1 said:

can we get at least a probability scale on this? we talkin' like chances of getting hit by lightning, Yellowstone erupting, mac and cheese for dinner, or confirmation of the Fermi Paradox?

You won’t see it for at least as long as Russia remains Putinesque and, then, several years beyond.

Edited November 19, 2023 by Ironhand

[NineLine]

6 hours ago, PLAAF said:

So what's the word now? This FF MiG-29 project is still ongoing, right?

Are intent is still to do this at some point, that has not changed. 

[PLAAF]

6 hours ago, NineLine said:

Are intent is still to do this at some point, that has not changed. 

 

8 hours ago, Ironhand said:

You won’t see it for at least as long as Russia remains Putinesque and, then, several years beyond.

 

 

I don't get it.  We don't really need Russia's permission to do this IMHO. Poland has a bunch of MiG-29. Why can't we ask them for info? I doubt Poland would care since they are handing out them to Ukraine so they can clean up their hangers for newer fighters.

I don't really understand why Russia cares about MiG-29A either. I heard they only operate much more advanced SMT variants nowadays anyway.

Edited November 19, 2023 by PLAAF

[Hammer1-1]

Yeah I dont get it either. Its not like there isnt a MiG-29 over in Nellis thats been there for years, not to mention theres a civilian here stateside that actually owns a MiG-29. Granted they arent 9-12's, but even still....a russian engineer passed on soviet state secrets to NATO specifically about the 29's radar capabilities years ago. I get it, but I would think Putin's opinion wouldnt really matter much about that. Maybe its the fact that ED resides in Moscow and Ukraine?

[F-2]

3 hours ago, Hammer1-1 said:

Yeah I dont get it either. Its not like there isnt a MiG-29 over in Nellis thats been there for years, not to mention theres a civilian here stateside that actually owns a MiG-29. Granted they arent 9-12's, but even still....a russian engineer passed on soviet state secrets to NATO specifically about the 29's radar capabilities years ago. I get it, but I would think Putin's opinion wouldnt really matter much about that. Maybe its the fact that ED resides in Moscow and Ukraine?

You can go to jail now for saying mean things about the Russian army, passing on documents is a great excuse to prosecute someone you don’t like. Best to wait for the heat to die down.

[NineLine]

23 hours ago, PLAAF said:

 

 

I don't get it.  We don't really need Russia's permission to do this IMHO. Poland has a bunch of MiG-29. Why can't we ask them for info? I doubt Poland would care since they are handing out them to Ukraine so they can clean up their hangers for newer fighters.

I don't really understand why Russia cares about MiG-29A either. I heard they only operate much more advanced SMT variants nowadays anyway.

 

Without breaking our own rules about politics, the world is a very unstable place these days and every step must be carefully planned. I believe we will have a FF MiG-29 its a matter of when not if. 

[Xhonas]

2 hours ago, NineLine said:

I believe we will have a FF MiG-29 its a matter of when not if. 

I know its off topic, but what about a Su-27/30 ? 

Edited November 21, 2023 by Xhonas

[draconus]

8 hours ago, Xhonas said:

but what about a Su-27/30 ?

Same but even less probable and more distant in time.

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

8 hours ago, Xhonas said:

what about a Su-27/30 ?

1:44:35 -> 1:46:50

[F-2]

3 hours ago, Raven (Elysian Angel) said:

1:44:35 -> 1:46:50

Apparently the national air and space museum has some stuff

 

AM-501050-01: MiG MiG-29 Fulcrum Family [Documents]
 

AM-501072-01: MiG MiG-29SE Fulcrum-C [Documents]

AM-501094-01: MiG MiG-31M Foxhound-B [Documents]

AS-902088-01: Sukhoi Su-30 (Su-27PU) Documents]

 

AS-902095-01: Sukhoi Su-34 [Documents]

AS-902097-01: Sukhoi Su-35 (Su-27SM2) Documents]

 

I’m sure most of this stuff is marketing material but the Su-27PU was operated by the USAF and might have actually documentation, same with the Mig-29SE.

 

you can only send one request at a time to the archive room. Would anyone like to help?

 

https://airandspace.si.edu/archives/accessing-collections/archives-research-request

 

 

[Silver_Dragon]

21 minutes ago, F-2 said:

Apparently the national air and space museum has some stuff

 

AM-501050-01: MiG MiG-29 Fulcrum Family [Documents]
 

AM-501072-01: MiG MiG-29SE Fulcrum-C [Documents]

AM-501094-01: MiG MiG-31M Foxhound-B [Documents]

AS-902088-01: Sukhoi Su-30 (Su-27PU) Documents]

 

AS-902095-01: Sukhoi Su-34 [Documents]

AS-902097-01: Sukhoi Su-35 (Su-27SM2) Documents]

 

I’m sure most of this stuff is marketing material but the Su-27PU was operated by the USAF and might have actually documentation, same with the Mig-29SE.

 

you can only send one request at a time to the archive room. Would anyone like to help?

 

https://airandspace.si.edu/archives/accessing-collections/archives-research-request

 

 

You continue required a "aprobal".

[F-2]

6 minutes ago, Silver_Dragon said:

You continue required a "aprobal".

I’m working outside and I’m having a hard time typing. Anyway this isn’t just for today but a few years down the line.

[PLAAF]

On 11/21/2023 at 9:59 AM, NineLine said:

Without breaking our own rules about politics, the world is a very unstable place these days and every step must be carefully planned. I believe we will have a FF MiG-29 its a matter of when not if. 

I was thinking. MiG-29A, G, and S all have exactly the same cockpit, right? So if you have decided to make a MiG-29A module, then why not make all 3 versions of them? According to the video posted by Raven earlier, the info you have is MiG-29G from Germany anyway.

Edited November 22, 2023 by PLAAF

[Ramius007]

Best candidate for FF Mig 29 would be Indian Mig-29K, relatively modern and carrier capable, guided A2G weapons and Astra missiles, as non Russian version can do it without going to jail. TBH, I dont think FF Fulcrum A would be a good idea, it's really old currently, and not much content (both maps and conficts), plane is not fitting any timeframe very good, for cold war scenarios is too modern, and for current times is just obsolete

[Northstar98]

On 11/24/2023 at 10:42 AM, Ramius007 said:

I dont think FF Fulcrum A would be a good idea, it's really old currently, and not much content (both maps and conficts), plane is not fitting any timeframe very good, for cold war scenarios is too modern, and for current times is just obsolete

What?

It's the perfect variant for Cold War scenarios, just not early or mid. It's perfect for late Cold War scenarios (and the late Cold War is the one we have the most assets for) and was introduced in time for when the late Cold War came the closest to actually going hot. The 9-12 MiG-29 is still in service with an operator currently at war.

If we ever got an F-16A Block 10/15 (arguably the most prolific NATO fighter of the late Cold War and one for which we'll have a relevant map for), the 9-12 MiG-29 is the closest peer contemporary.

On the contrary, what maps, current or in development that are appropriate for the MiG-29K? What conflicts has it been involved in? The 9-12 not only fits the Cold War, but the Gulf War and Bosnia (albeit without the maps in DCS). We already have a map featuring 9-12 (albeit 9-12B) MiG-29 operators (Iran on the PG map, Iraq on Syria).

I'm not opposed to a MiG-29K (though a Kr would probably be more appropriate, at least we already have the carrier and some escorts for it, unlike the K for which we have 0 Indian ships), but saying it fits better than a 9-12 because of maps, conflicts and eras is just unsubstantiated.

Edited November 27, 2023 by Northstar98

[Ramius007]

32 minutes ago, Northstar98 said:

It's the perfect variant for Cold War scenarios, just not early or mid. It's perfect for late Cold War scenarios (and the late Cold War is the one we have the most assets for) and was introduced in time for when the Cold War came the closest to actually going hot. The 9-12 MiG-29 is still in service with an operator currently at war.

Sure, issue is that planes and loadout have no timeframes and it's up to server creator to allow/not allow certain planes, it's ridicolous to imagine Mig 19 and Mig 29 on the same server, and from what i see people lean towards most modern times and I wish you luck taking Mig 29A/G against Amraam C anything, mind you, only 2 SARH missiles with ca. 20% efficiency against defending target

 

32 minutes ago, Northstar98 said:

If we ever got an F-16A Block 10/15 (arguably the most prolific NATO fighter of the late Cold War and one for which we'll have a relevant map for), the 9-12 MiG-29 is the closest peer contemporary.

Lack of older F-16 is striking, I have to admit, this really ask for LF Flaming Cliffs 4 package with F-16A, maybe F-16 MLU, Mig 29SM to give redfor fighting chance, and propably 1 more plane that have similar weight/thrust version to 1 plane that we already have as HF, but either older or newer variant with new cocpit/ external model

 

32 minutes ago, Northstar98 said:

On the contrary, what maps, current or in development that are appropriate for the MiG-29K? What conflicts has it been involved in? The 9-12 not only fits the Cold War, but the Gulf War and Bosnia (albeit without the maps in DCS). We already have a map featuring 9-12 (albeit 9-12B) MiG-29 operators (Iran on the PG map, Iraq on Syria).

Coming Kola map give home to Viggen and definitely will be great map for Mig-29A cold war scenarios, In theory we are already fine, but even FC3 dont have dedicated Mig 29A campaign, we dont have any paid Mig 29A or G campaign, and PG map is too limited to represent Gulf War or Iraq-Iran war well, Syria is always solid option, but you find very little missions and even less campaigns for Mig 29A/G currently, and IMO it's kinda indicative of real interest in Mig 29A, S version otoh gets way more love, even if it's practically export variant used by North Korea

32 minutes ago, Northstar98 said:

I'm not opposed to a MiG-29K (though a Kr would probably be more appropriate, at least we already have the carrier and some escorts for it, unlike the K for which we have 0 Indian ships), but saying it fits better than a 9-12 because of maps, conflicts and eras is just unsubstantiated.

We get Forrestal with F-14 module, can get some Indian carrier along Mig 29K, you can be sure we get free mods with Indian assets shorty, also happy to see Indian Ocean map, covering Pakistani and Indian coast, maybe Diego Garcia. Finally Jeff would find it's home

Edited November 24, 2023 by Ramius007

[Northstar98]

8 hours ago, Ramius007 said:

Sure, issue is that planes and loadout have no timeframes and it's up to server creator to allow/not allow certain planes

And on the other hand, there's nothing preventing mission creators from making more historically coherent scenarios.

8 hours ago, Ramius007 said:

it's ridicolous to imagine Mig 19 and Mig 29 on the same server, and from what i see people lean towards most modern times and I wish you luck taking Mig 29A/G against Amraam C anything, mind you, only 2 SARH missiles with ca. 20% efficiency against defending target

Welp I wish F-4Es luck dealing with MiG-29s - that is a historically coherent match up - the F-4E wasn't retired until the mid-to-late 90s so it's definitely plausible to have them in the same scenario (and something to that effect happens in chapter 21 of Red Storm Rising, pretty much the go-to place for Cold War gone hot inspiration).

8 hours ago, Ramius007 said:

Lack of older F-16 is striking, I have to admit, this really ask for LF Flaming Cliffs 4 package with F-16A, maybe F-16 MLU, Mig 29SM to give redfor fighting chance, and propably 1 more plane that have similar weight/thrust version to 1 plane that we already have as HF, but either older or newer variant with new cocpit/ external model

Meh, DCS should be about high-fidelity aircraft, FC4 will be Modern Air Combat if/when it gets released.

8 hours ago, Ramius007 said:

PG map is too limited to represent Gulf War or Iraq-Iran war well

Absolutely true - but it is a map for which a relevant 9-12B MiG-29 operator is present. Conversely, there are no maps and no additional assets supporting an Indian MiG-29K. The Kola map will feature airbases appropriate for Russian MiG-29KR (for which, a K could probably be used as somewhat of a stand-in) and we do already have the carrier it's based on, but that's just about it. The MiG-29KR of course would be subject to all the same reasons why we can't have any other 2000s+ Russian aircraft (and just getting Soviet stuff is already problematic enough - I think there's a reason why the latest full-fidelity Soviet fighter is the MiG-23MLA...).

8 hours ago, Ramius007 said:

S version otoh gets way more love, even if it's practically export variant used by North Korea

The 9-13S MiG-29S is a Soviet aircraft and to my knowledge wasn't exported. The SE (an export version of the S) was, but not to North Korea, who use the 9-12B.

Edited November 24, 2023 by Northstar98
spelling

[F-2]

17 minutes ago, Northstar98 said:

 

The 9-13S MiG-29S is a Soviet aircraft and to my knowledge wasn't exported. The SE (an export version of the S) was, but not to North Korea, who use the 9-12B.

The US Air Force owns an operates over a dozen Mig-29 9-13. The only piece missing is the radar for the full S

https://dod.defense.gov/OIR/gallery/igphoto/2001237536/

 

Apparently the Smithsonian has

AM-501072-01: MiG MiG-29SE Fulcrum-C [Documents

 

maybe something with the radar modes we need?

[okopanja]

19 minutes ago, Northstar98 said:

Meh, DCS should be about high-fidelity aircraft, FC4 will be Modern Air Combat if/when it gets released.

FC3 will still be present in DCS even if MAC get released. MAC is there fore more gamey people oscillating between DCS and XXX YYYYYYY. Its a though call to challenge existing market segment ruler in their area.