Swift. Posted September 28, 2020 Posted September 28, 2020 I don't fly the Viper!!! Can you elaborate on those differences pls? I'd be much appreciated This video will show them 476th Discord | 476th Website | Swift Youtube Ryzen 5800x, RTX 4070ti, 64GB, Quest 2
hein22 Posted September 28, 2020 Posted September 28, 2020 This video will show them Actually no, because I don't know what is aircraft specific and what is not. Thanks. Stay safe
Swift. Posted September 28, 2020 Posted September 28, 2020 I thought you wanted to know the difference between DCS viper and DCS hornet 476th Discord | 476th Website | Swift Youtube Ryzen 5800x, RTX 4070ti, 64GB, Quest 2
hein22 Posted September 28, 2020 Posted September 28, 2020 I thought you wanted to know the difference between DCS viper and DCS hornet No, not at all. I wanted to know what is wrong with the HARM when fitted into a Hornet, thus wanted to know the differences between the HARMs when fitted in the two aircrafts. The video doesn't teach me what is the difference between the two simulations, so I don't know what is due to aircraft specific design and what is due to a DCS issue. Stay safe
amalahama Posted September 28, 2020 Posted September 28, 2020 Right now, harm seeker in the hornet implementation can magically see and instantaneously update all air defences in its fov. This is somewhat unrealistic, since harm seeker needs to sweep through its fov like a radar would do, and that takes a significant amount of time. That's why there are filtering and azimuth limiting options, just to make the sweep faster. The difference however, and this is my own guess, is that in the hornet the CLC can store harm contacts and make the math to present them with regards to missile boresight in each moment, so it's not a static image. But not sure about this one
hein22 Posted September 28, 2020 Posted September 28, 2020 Right now, harm seeker in the hornet implementation can magically see and instantaneously update all air defences in its fov. This is somewhat unrealistic, since harm seeker needs to sweep through its fov like a radar would do, and that takes a significant amount of time. That's why there are filtering and azimuth limiting options, just to make the sweep faster. The difference however, and this is my own guess, is that in the hornet the CLC can store harm contacts and make the math to present them with regards to missile boresight in each moment, so it's not a static image. But not sure about this one Thanks. That's sounds really bad for us hornet pilots in terms of realism. Any other thing similar to that? Stay safe
Harlikwin Posted September 28, 2020 Posted September 28, 2020 Right now, harm seeker in the hornet implementation can magically see and instantaneously update all air defences in its fov. This is somewhat unrealistic, since harm seeker needs to sweep through its fov like a radar would do, and that takes a significant amount of time. That's why there are filtering and azimuth limiting options, just to make the sweep faster. The difference however, and this is my own guess, is that in the hornet the CLC can store harm contacts and make the math to present them with regards to missile boresight in each moment, so it's not a static image. But not sure about this one Yeah, the possible reason that the hornet is "simpler" or "easier" in this regard is that the RWR or other sensors might be able to hand off information such as bearing to the HARM for emmiters, and then the HARM might be able to quickly lock them. Same for "rough" range info from the RWR. New hotness: I7 9700k 4.8ghz, 32gb ddr4, 2080ti, :joystick: TM Warthog. TrackIR, HP Reverb (formermly CV1) Old-N-busted: i7 4720HQ ~3.5GHZ, +32GB DDR3 + Nvidia GTX980m (4GB VRAM) :joystick: TM Warthog. TrackIR, Rift CV1 (yes really).
TLTeo Posted September 28, 2020 Posted September 28, 2020 It can also show the emitter on the HUD after handoff with too much accuracy. We estimated in this thread the uncertainty at approx 25nm should be 1.5nm or so, while right now the target box is spot on the emitter.
QuiGon Posted September 29, 2020 Posted September 29, 2020 Yeah, the possible reason that the hornet is "simpler" or "easier" in this regard is that the RWR or other sensors might be able to hand off information such as bearing to the HARM for emmiters, and then the HARM might be able to quickly lock them. Same for "rough" range info from the RWR. That's what it does in SP mode. In TOO (HAS on the Viper) mode the HARM seeker is used instead. Intel i7-12700K @ 8x5GHz+4x3.8GHz + 32 GB DDR5 RAM + Nvidia Geforce RTX 2080 (8 GB VRAM) + M.2 SSD + Windows 10 64Bit DCS Panavia Tornado (IDS) really needs to be a thing!
dorianR666 Posted February 22, 2021 Posted February 22, 2021 1 hour ago, jojojung said: Any progress on this topic? big HARM update is scheduled for end of march, so we'll see. no explicit mention of this problem so far though. CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 1600X GPU: AMD RX 580
jojojung Posted February 23, 2021 Posted February 23, 2021 vor 58 Minuten schrieb dorianR666: big HARM update is scheduled for end of march, so we'll see. no explicit mention of this problem so far though. Thanks a lot!
Zergburger Posted April 22, 2021 Posted April 22, 2021 guess i'll just put this in here.... add to the list:
howie87 Posted October 26, 2022 Posted October 26, 2022 On 9/18/2020 at 11:14 AM, cofcorpse said: HARM on the Hornet is simplified for now. However, it will be adjusted for the Viper standard in future. So, what depends on missile (detection rate, for example) will be the same on both planes. But, please keep in mind, that some things are aircraft specific and they will remain different. Any update on this? Haven't tested recently but is the hornet's HUD emitter box still deadly accurate when using the HARM in TOO mode? Hoping some angular error and longer detection times has been introduced by now. 3
amalahama Posted November 2, 2022 Posted November 2, 2022 We held a recent discussion on the very same topic in the DCS official discord channel, the super accurate Hornet's HARM implementation with instantaneous emitter updating starts to feel outdated compared with the more appropiate and realistic modelization in the Viper. Any update on the topic would be greatly appreciated. 1
Awesomejlee Posted December 6, 2022 Posted December 6, 2022 (edited) Are the HARM systems in the Hornet simplified? Compared to the Viper and the HTS (which is specialized) the Hornet is much quicker as far as acquiring emitters. It also doesn't require codes to search with different lists of possible emitters. I have a friend who insists that the 18 is very simplified as far as these systems. Is this true or do the Hornet's HARM modes just have more power over the Viper's? The HTS still has utility as far as getting precise coordinates for emitters, but does the Hornet outpower the HTS in many other ways IRL, or is it simplified in DCS, and if it is, why? Edited December 6, 2022 by Awesomejlee
ED Team BIGNEWY Posted December 6, 2022 ED Team Posted December 6, 2022 6 hours ago, Awesomejlee said: Are the HARM systems in the Hornet simplified? Compared to the Viper and the HTS (which is specialized) the Hornet is much quicker as far as acquiring emitters. It also doesn't require codes to search with different lists of possible emitters. I have a friend who insists that the 18 is very simplified as far as these systems. Is this true or do the Hornet's HARM modes just have more power over the Viper's? The HTS still has utility as far as getting precise coordinates for emitters, but does the Hornet outpower the HTS in many other ways IRL, or is it simplified in DCS, and if it is, why? Hi It is based on best public available information. In the case of the hornet such data is very slim. Forum rules - DCS Crashing? Try this first - Cleanup and Repair - Discord BIGNEWY#8703 - Youtube - Patch Status Windows 11, NVIDIA MSI RTX 3090, Intel® i9-10900K 3.70GHz, 5.30GHz Turbo, Corsair Hydro Series H150i Pro, 64GB DDR @3200, ASUS ROG Strix Z490-F Gaming, PIMAX Crystal
Hobel Posted December 6, 2022 Posted December 6, 2022 vor 7 Stunden schrieb Awesomejlee: Are the HARM systems in the Hornet simplified? Compared to the Viper and the HTS (which is specialized) the Hornet is much quicker as far as acquiring emitters. It also doesn't require codes to search with different lists of possible emitters. I have a friend who insists that the 18 is very simplified as far as these systems. Is this true or do the Hornet's HARM modes just have more power over the Viper's? The HTS still has utility as far as getting precise coordinates for emitters, but does the Hornet outpower the HTS in many other ways IRL, or is it simplified in DCS, and if it is, why? so regardless of whether simplified or not. Performs the F16 with the AGM88C in dcs significantly better. what modes and use cases are you talking about exactly, if it is also in terms of "faster"
Dragon1-1 Posted December 6, 2022 Posted December 6, 2022 From what I heard (anecdotically, but from people who'd know), the Hornet has some capabilities of the HTS built in. Its RWR gear is more advanced and better integrated than that of the Viper, and while it doesn't provide all the capabilities HTS does, it's possible that the workflow for the pilot was streamlined and some things automated. 4
Hulkbust44 Posted December 7, 2022 Posted December 7, 2022 22 hours ago, Dragon1-1 said: From what I heard (anecdotically, but from people who'd know), the Hornet has some capabilities of the HTS built in. Its RWR gear is more advanced and better integrated than that of the Viper, and while it doesn't provide all the capabilities HTS does, it's possible that the workflow for the pilot was streamlined and some things automated. Yep, HARM, ALR-67, and ASPJ all work together. To the point there is an caution on the RWR display for when it can't talk to the HARMs. We're still missing things like TOO range known vs unknow and TGT designations. Also A/A sensor contribution, MN FILE, actual PB capability...
Dragon1-1 Posted December 7, 2022 Posted December 7, 2022 Well, we can make range unknown TOO shots, just not range known. PB capability, well, that would require the ability to actually pre-brief stuff like that, so it'd need DTS. I'm not sure if there's public documentation available for the other stuff.
bushido Posted February 21, 2023 Posted February 21, 2023 I was wondering why the use of the HARM is so much different between the F16 and the F18. Both missile are the same (AGM 88-C), and in both case we use the seeker of the missile so it should be rather similar. However in the F18 using the HARM in target of opportunity mode is straightforward, the missile detect all radar emission, you don't have to play between teable and select the one you're interested in like in the F16 and it detect almost instantly (as far as I can tell) contrary to the F16 where you have to limit the search for a decent time of scanning. Is it because the F18 avionics perform some kind of post processsing to enhance the performance of the missile seeker or is it something else, and if so what ?
silverdevil Posted February 21, 2023 Posted February 21, 2023 37 minutes ago, bushido said: I was wondering why the use of the HARM is so much different between the F16 and the F18. Both missile are the same (AGM 88-C), and in both case we use the seeker of the missile so it should be rather similar. However in the F18 using the HARM in target of opportunity mode is straightforward, the missile detect all radar emission, you don't have to play between teable and select the one you're interested in like in the F16 and it detect almost instantly (as far as I can tell) contrary to the F16 where you have to limit the search for a decent time of scanning. Is it because the F18 avionics perform some kind of post processsing to enhance the performance of the missile seeker or is it something else, and if so what ? i am by no means an expert with HARM. one question. do you have the HTS pod mounted? though the F-16 is less sophisticated than the F-18 is many ways. so it goes to figure. AKA_SilverDevil Join AKA Wardogs Email Address My YouTube “The MIGS came up, the MIGS were aggressive, we tangled, they lost.” - Robin Olds - An American fighter pilot. He was a triple ace. The only man to ever record a confirmed kill while in glide mode.
EnzoF98 Posted February 22, 2023 Posted February 22, 2023 As far as I know, HARM TOO in the Hornet is currently simplified and incorrect. But as said above, if you mount the HTS pod on the Viper, it'll allow you to deploy HARMs in a similar way to the Hornet's TOO mode, by using the HAD page on the MFDs. 1
jojojung Posted February 22, 2023 Posted February 22, 2023 vor 2 Stunden schrieb EnzoF98: As far as I know, HARM TOO in the Hornet is currently simplified and incorrect. But as said above, if you mount the HTS pod on the Viper, it'll allow you to deploy HARMs in a similar way to the Hornet's TOO mode, by using the HAD page on the MFDs. The HTS is much more sophisticated then the TOO Harm Mode in the F18. Because you get range and deviation data with the HTS pod and thats very significant IRL. The simplyfied and magic HARM TOO Mode in the F18 is known for many years now, but ED didnt fix anything.
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