Hello everyone, some advice about DCS module to begin

[Berserk]

Hello, i tried FC3 and i liked it. A lot.

I wanted to buy some full fidelity module, someting post WW2 but not armed with AMRAAM.

It may be simple it may be complex, it may be AA or AG. I just want it to offer engaging playstyle maybe even difficult and be of high quality (module, not aircraft), without many bugs.

My dad served in Germany in 1980s so something from this period would be great, NATO or Soviet.

Edited February 15, 2021 by Berserk

[=52d= Skip]

A-10.

Ticks all your marks and will keep you busy for some time to come.

[bies]

A-10A you have in FC3 was definitely from 1970/1980s Germany.

Full fidelity A-10C is way more modern, post Cold War, it represents about 2005 standard, but if this is not an issue for you it's a great module.

 

High quality modules from your dad's service period are F-14A, MiG-21bis, Mirage 2000, AJS-37 Viggen is also close. Each of this is great module with very good community opinion.

You can't go wrong with any of this since they all represent level of technology forcing pilots to do many things manually and all of them have their unique quirks.

 

There is also Gazelle late Cold War anti tank helicopter, it's flight model has mixed opinions and it's developer want to upgrade Gazelle FM after the release of Kiwa so i would wait for that.

 

Soon there will be Mi-24P Hind, this was a legend in Germany 1980s but it's still few months to release.

 

And there are many other modules from 1980s in development, soon Mirage F.1, then A-7E, MiG-23MLA.

 

Later A-6E Intruder, Bolkov-105 antitank helicopter used by Bundeswehr to fight Soviet Tanks in Europe.

MiG-29A - the most feared Soviet fighter during late Cold War.

 

Probably F-4 Phantom but nobody want to announce it yet not to start the hype to early.

 

There is even a chance for F-117 another NATO legend of the late Cold War, it's now being made for other sim by DCS 3rd party but who knows what will happen later.

Edited February 15, 2021 by bies

[Berserk]

As i understand 1980s A-10A is only as low fidelity? There is no full fidelity of this classic A-10A?

So i guess at the beginning i take F-14A or MiG-21bis then. (or both) Thanks for help.

[LooseSeal]

11 hours ago, Berserk said:

As i understand 1980s A-10A is only as low fidelity? There is no full fidelity of this classic A-10A?

So i guess at the beginning i take F-14A or MiG-21bis then. (or both) Thanks for help.

 

If you're set on Air-to-Air then I would recommend the M-2000C personally. It's technically still an 80s aircraft, fairly advanced and a good dogfighter but hasn't got missiles on the same level as an Aim-120. Additionally, the Mirage has probably the best training missions and training campaign to get you into it.

 

The MiG-21 is a great module, but the radar might be a shock coming from the Su-27s etc of FC3.

[Stearmandriver]

On 2/15/2021 at 9:31 AM, bies said:

A-10A you have in FC3 was definitely from 1970/1980s Germany.

Full fidelity A-10C is way more modern, post Cold War, it represents about 2005 standard, but if this is not an issue for you it's a great module.

 

High quality modules from your dad's service period are F-14A, MiG-21bis, Mirage 2000, AJS-37 Viggen is also close. Each of this is great module with very good community opinion.

You can't go wrong with any of this since they all represent level of technology forcing pilots to do many things manually and all of them have their unique quirks.

 

There is also Gazelle late Cold War anti tank helicopter, it's flight model has mixed opinions and it's developer want to upgrade Gazelle FM after the release of Kiwa so i would wait for that.

 

Soon there will be Mi-24P Hind, this was a legend in Germany 1980s but it's still few months to release.

 

And there are many other modules from 1980s in development, soon Mirage F.1, then A-7E, MiG-23MLA.

 

Later A-6E Intruder, Bolkov-105 antitank helicopter used by Bundeswehr to fight Soviet Tanks in Europe.

MiG-29A - the most feared Soviet fighter during late Cold War.

 

Probably F-4 Phantom but nobody want to announce it yet not to start the hype to early.

 

There is even a chance for F-117 another NATO legend of the late Cold War, it's now being made for other sim by DCS 3rd party but who knows what will happen later.

 

So what you're saying is... get ALL the modules, just to be safe? 

 

(I have no problem with this advice .)

[NineLine]

On 2/15/2021 at 5:55 AM, Berserk said:

Hello, i tried FC3 and i liked it. A lot.

I wanted to buy some full fidelity module, someting post WW2 but not armed with AMRAAM.

It may be simple it may be complex, it may be AA or AG. I just want it to offer engaging playstyle maybe even difficult and be of high quality (module, not aircraft), without many bugs.

My dad served in Germany in 1980s so something from this period would be great, NATO or Soviet.

 

Have you considered the F-5E? 

[Berserk]

3 hours ago, NineLine said:

Have you considered the F-5E? 

Yes, i saw very positive opinions about F-5. They were used extensively during 1980s in Iraq-Iran war. I think either F-5 or Mi-24 will be the next.

Mirage and Viggen also looks great.

Thanks all

[WinterH]

MiG-21Bis: engaging with all its quirks and flight characteristics, can do surprisingly ok as a ground attacker too.

F-5E: Also very nice, and a good blue counterpart to MiG-21, though I personally find the MiG more engaging

Viggen: Very unique and cool, but takes some getting used to what we have is a 1996 upgrade, but it isn't too far from an 80s bird either

F-14: Flight characteristics are just very engaging, difficult to get the most out of, but can be a great performer if you can the best out of it. Module comes with different variants.

If you are into helicopters, both UH-1H and Mi-8MTV2 are excellent modules

Mirage 2000C, this is a late 80s update as far as I know. It has a lot of fans, but I prefer others listed above myself. It is the most agile and easiest to fly though, and in many ways will be the most familiar one compared to what you may be used to from FC3 birds.

 

The period you are interested in offers some of the best DCS modules in my opinion, so it is hard to go wrong with any option.

[Berserk]

On 2/17/2021 at 11:07 AM, WinterH said:

Viggen: Very unique and cool, but takes some getting used to what we have is a 1996 upgrade, but it isn't too far from an 80s bird either

Do you know what part of the Viggen is from post Cold War/USSR?

Edited February 28, 2021 by Berserk

[BonerCat]

The MiG-21 has a disgusting flight model right now, I'd advise steering clear of it, unless you want to meme about with it
It behaves a lot more like a mirage, than a MiG-21
It used to be great, but then magnitude 3 took over...

I'd personally recommend a Tomcat or Viggen
Tomcat is a fantastic A/A platform, but is most definitely hands-on when it comes to flying (no FCS), best flown with a human RIO.
In ideal conditions, you can score A/A kills before the enemy has a chance to shoot back.
With up to 6 Phoenix missiles, you can get some really nice long range engagements before having to head back
Can fight modern planes, with some degree of success, mostly depending on how good/bad you and your opponent are
Has some A/G capability. Carries a lot of dumb bombs (accurate CCIP), and up to 4 laser guided paveway II's, plus a Tpod (only works from back seat, and jester can't use it yet)

Viggen is a special beast. It comes in, drops all the shit it's carrying, and gets out at M1.1 on the deck, hopefuly before anybody knows what happend. Requires some flight planning for textbook sorties. Difficult to use against opportunity targets.
Has dumb bombs, rockets, mavericks, bullpup-like Rb-05's, anti ship missiles (Simple, 30km Rb-04, and more advanced 70km Rb-15F), Bk-90 cluster munition glide bombs (10ish km range), some gun pods and sidewinders
It also sports an A/G radar (ground/sea/terrain avoidance modes. Only ranges targets in A/A), and a fiddely on-board computer. If you like making a plan, checking input codes on a kneeboard, coming in low and fast, executing one strike, and getting out, you'll like this thing.
Suprisingly good A/A platform with 6x Sidewinder loadout, in the right scenario
Unfortunately, no onboard gun tho. Needs gunpods for that, which take up the main A/G stations

F-5E is also an outstanding module, tho the plane's capabilities are somewhat limited
It only carries 2 AIM-9 missiles, and the onboard A/A radar leaves a lot to be desired
It does however come with gun, and a gyro/radar gunsight for it
As for A/G, it only carries dumb boms and rockets for self employment, but can also carry 4 GBU-12's. They must be buddy lased in tho, either another plane, or JTAC
No CCIP or CCRP of any kind. Just a sight you can move up and down, some ballistic tables, and releasing at the right speed, altitude and angle. Bloody difficult to pull off, especially under fire

all 3 of these modules have very little bugs, with the F-5 coming out on top here (I don't think i've ever experienced a bug in the F-5), with the Viggen right behind it.

And to answer your question, i think the only part of the viggen that is post cold war, is retrofitting it with the Rb-15F anti ship missile. The Rb-04 still exists tho, for those true cold war scenarios
Might be wrong on that one tho

Edited February 17, 2021 by BonerCat

[WinterH]

54 minutes ago, Berserk said:

Do you know what part of the Viggen is from after USSR dissolution?

TERNAV navigation database, Mjölnir standoff submunition dispensers, Rb 74s (AIM-9L equivalents), RB15F antiship missiles are what I can remember but this thread has the more exact answer:

With some restriction of loadout, and disabling TERNAV it is very close to an 80s AJ 37.

[ruddy122]

A good complex DCS module is the Tomcat

It’s old school but fun


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Dragon1-1]

I'd recommend the Mirage 2000. It's easy to fly, reasonably complex, but not too much, competent in both AA and AG roles, and has lots of top-level (in terms of quality) singleplayer content. It's basically comparable to an F-16A, but it's faster and less of a beast in a dogfight than an A model Viper would be. 

[Berserk]

11 minutes ago, Dragon1-1 said:

I'd recommend the Mirage 2000. It's easy to fly, reasonably complex, but not too much, competent in both AA and AG roles, and has lots of top-level (in terms of quality) singleplayer content. It's basically comparable to an F-16A, but it's faster and less of a beast in a dogfight than an A model Viper would be. 

 

Mirage is also tempting, i just listen to the interview with a British pilot flying Mirage 2000 in French Air Force, Mirage has distinctive handling with it's delta wing.

 

Is, by chance, F-16A planned for DCS? Or some block before AMRAAM in the future?

[Dragon1-1]

No, they're not planned as far as we know. Certainly not in foreseeable future. Right now, even completing the F-16CM isn't even on the horizon, it's so far from done.

 

However, the Mirage is certainly a workable substitute, if you like this period in aircraft evolution. It's one of the better Western aircraft from that period, with early FBW, Fox 1 missiles and a decent radar.

[FoxxyTrotty]

it sucks you just missed the free trials because you could have tested them. I own every module (except that bi plane). I agree with pretty much everything people have said above.

 

For me the enjoyment of a module is first and foremost how it "feels" and by that i mean the flight model. If anyone here flew the farmer/mig19 in the first few months after release, you will know how badly a flight model can be made where it "runs on rails". Any flight control movements failed to cause a single adverse effect to the rest of the plane. They since half way addressed this.

 

In terms of the better ones, the free TF51 is a great example of the potential of DCS. This is the free civi /trainer version of P51 which flies the same. The Sabre is about as good. The winner is obvious for me, the F14. How can you tell which plane is realistic if you haven't flown the real life counterpart???  I suspect you haven't driven a real life "bugatti veyron" either, but you could tell when you played the arcade racer on your phone, it just didn't "feel right". I did some lecturing in principles of flight back in my time at air cadets where i also did my solo in both powered and gliders. What made this easy for me was understanding the principles of flight. What i really like is attention to detail, the F14 is one of the few modules that has all the forces and effects recreated. We can argue all day exactly how much roll should be induced by standing full rudder at 300kts, the point is, the induced roll force is there, and it "feels right".

 

There's few things about the F14 not to like, but i'll mention them because its really one of the best DCS modules to date, and certainly the best 3rd party module. The aircon sound is too loud. I have my volume sliders all up to default (100) and the internal fan noise is louder than both engines. I disable the air every flight, simply because i dont need the pretend air con, but if they make systems break from overheating, then I will need to leave this on. Second and lastly - Lighting, for a module that got so much right and so well, i can't believe its one of the worst in terms of lights, both internal and external. It used to be good, until DCS updated their graphics, but that was about a year ago now. F14 never did their bit.

 

M2000 - well this was my first "pro" module i bought, back when i started DCS about 4 years back now, when the oculus VR first dropped. It has some cool cluster bombs that work really well in CCIP mode, and has options to carry GBU12-24 that someone (or AI) can buddylase for you. The matras and magics AA are ok in short-medium ranges - before the days of 120C or 9x, the m2000 was something you never wanted to get close to, it was arguably the best. I certainly got more kills (and was killed more) by the magic than Aim9 L/M

 

A10c - well its the best CAS and thats all their is to it. If you like CAS missions then this is it. Target rich environments, dodging SAMs, this is it. Make sure you get the A10 v2 because for the extra few pounds (upgrade) its worth it for the HMD and almost 500 chaff/flare storage (i think 240 of each is default).

 

The harrier is a briliant CAS aircraft as well, and after a LONG time of recieving no love, the last year or so has really seen it mature into one of the better DCS modules. Its also fun to hover and transition between hover/flight. It also has the laser guided rockets now (like a10c v2) and the JDAM/GBU combo bombs.

 

there's modules i'd recommend not to buy, and they are the ones i rarely fly, but that isn't perhaps because they are bad quality modules, but rather the module is based on an aircraft that just has no real place in DCS as it stands. Typically you are going to have ww2, cold war, or modern battle space, and its rare to have people fly the worst modules of the era they are flying in, its a huge minus and i think those modules are just unfortunate. Sure you can create sterile environment in the mission editor and fight your way through a vacum if that's your thing (i know i do it sometimes).

[upyr1]

On 2/15/2021 at 7:55 AM, Berserk said:

Hello, i tried FC3 and i liked it. A lot.

I wanted to buy some full fidelity module, someting post WW2 but not armed with AMRAAM.

It may be simple it may be complex, it may be AA or AG. I just want it to offer engaging playstyle maybe even difficult and be of high quality (module, not aircraft), without many bugs.

My dad served in Germany in 1980s so something from this period would be great, NATO or Soviet.

 

It sounds like you want the av-8  F-5, or MiG-21 BIS. The A-10 we have is the C so that is the upgrade from the 2010s

Edited February 25, 2021 by upyr1

[MIghtymoo]

I have been working very hard (several months) to love the A-10C II. It is an EXCELLENT module and an extremely capable CAS aircraft.

 

Often the strategy is putting the airplane in high altitude orbit and search for targets from a safe distance. The TGP (targeting pod) is used alot whatever strategy you choose. Flying is relatively easy. Basic navigation using waypoints and HUD likewise.

 

For me the problem with the awesome A-10C II, is that it is more system management than flying. 

 

When you decide on which modules you would like to fly, it is ESSENSIAL to think about what you like the most. I went automatically for the modern (A-10C II) modules, but then moved to the older ones later (F-5E / UH-1H). 

 

Simplified:

• Old school: "Analogue and manual. Harder to navigate and destroy targets. Very rewarding when you manage (even basic things as) finding targets and navigating back to base" 
• Modern: "Much more advanced systems (digital) and more technical system management focus. Easier to destroy targets. Rewarding to feel like you master a fairly current and modern aircraft."

Some modules may be somewhere in between.
 

My keypoint is to be honest and go for what YOU like.

At the end of the day DCS is a sim/game (great one!). Spend the time in front of the PC in a way that is giving you the most in return.

 

For me right now it is actually the DCS Mission Editor 

 

Happy flying!

 

Edited February 26, 2021 by MIghtymoo

[Dannyvandelft]

Hello, i tried FC3 and i liked it. A lot.
I wanted to buy some full fidelity module, someting post WW2 but not armed with AMRAAM.
It may be simple it may be complex, it may be AA or AG. I just want it to offer engaging playstyle maybe even difficult and be of high quality (module, not aircraft), without many bugs.
My dad served in Germany in 1980s so something from this period would be great, NATO or Soviet.

Simple. Tomcat.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[Berserk]

16 hours ago, Dannyvandelft said:

Simple. Tomcat.

That's what I did. It's fantastic! F-14, F-5E, MiG-21, Mirage 2000 and Viggen looks the most tempting. Mi-24 soon.

 

On 2/26/2021 at 2:45 PM, MIghtymoo said:

I have been working very hard (several months) to love the A-10C II. It is an EXCELLENT module and an extremely capable CAS aircraft.

 

Often the strategy is putting the airplane in high altitude orbit and search for targets from a safe distance. The TGP (targeting pod) is used alot whatever strategy you choose. Flying is relatively easy. Basic navigation using waypoints and HUD likewise.

 

For me the problem with the awesome A-10C II, is that it is more system management than flying. 

I can agree, after years of F4.0 i was sure it's not the thing i would enjoy really. Instead of system manager i want to feel like a pilot. 

I prefer low flying turning and shooting gun, unguided rockets and dumb cluster bombs, aim them manually with my skill rather than long range guided smart things. That's why i asked if there is no A-10A as full realism module. Good thing is A-10A from FC3 received professional flight model and quality external model from A-10C.

 

Still i admire ED was able to made such complicated version, but it's manual, even shorter made by Chuck, scares me. If i understand correctly this version was requested by ED military contractors.

[statrekmike]

On 2/28/2021 at 6:40 AM, Berserk said:

That's what I did. It's fantastic! F-14, F-5E, MiG-21, Mirage 2000 and Viggen looks the most tempting. Mi-24 soon.

 

I can agree, after years of F4.0 i was sure it's not the thing i would enjoy really. Instead of system manager i want to feel like a pilot. 

I prefer low flying turning and shooting gun, unguided rockets and dumb cluster bombs, aim them manually with my skill rather than long range guided smart things. That's why i asked if there is no A-10A as full realism module. Good thing is A-10A from FC3 received professional flight model and quality external model from A-10C.

 

Still i admire ED was able to made such complicated version, but it's manual, even shorter made by Chuck, scares me. If i understand correctly this version was requested by ED military contractors.

 

 

  First and foremost, I wouldn't let the manual (or even Chuck's guide) on the A-10C scare you. It might seem like a huge amount of stuff to digest at first glance but it isn't something you need to a.) memorize, or b.) digest in one large gulp. The manual (and Chuck's guide alongside it and not instead of it) is probably one of the best in DCS and is organized in such a way that you can really take it one step at a time and work your way towards proficiency at a manageable, pleasant pace. Remember. You don't need to sit down and read the manual like it is a book. You don't need to memorize it. Real pilots keep checklists for a reason (they are required to in fact). If you take it one step at a time, the learning process will not only go faster than one might be led to believe by some in this community but you will also come out of that process with a level of skill that allows you to do a ton of really fun, really cool stuff with the plane that you might not even learn about otherwise. To put it more directly. If you can really embrace the learning process and work with it as opposed to against it, you will find that it is quite enjoyable and very rewarding. I have known DCS players who spend months or years trying to find shortcuts around a hour or two of simply thumbing through the manual to find a pretty easy to follow checklist. 

 

  Now, in regards to the whole "skill rather than long-range, guided smart things", I gotta be blunt. The A-10A is not as different as you might think from the A-10C. At its core, the employment of unguided munitions, rockets, and the gun is IDENTICAL for both the A-10A and A-10C. The HUD is still pretty much the same. The CCIP/CCRP modes are still the same. Dropping a Mk-82, firing the gun, or using a rocket will be exactly the same between both aircraft. The tactics and basic employment method will be functionally the same. 

 

  The big difference between the A-10A and A-10C really comes down to added capability. The precision guided weapons are indeed part of that but you are also looking at better navigation systems, better system/weapon management, and the addition of the targeting pod and helmet mounted systems that really do allow you to just do more and do it more effectively. You can still do all the stuff you can do in the A-10A but you can also do a lot more and do it better. 

 

  I gotta also be blunt again and point out that "long range guided smart things" involve quite a bit of skill to use. It might not seem like it at first glance but when you actually challenge yourself to use them properly and realistically, there are skill based elements that can be quite satisfying. 

 

  Overall. I sense that you have this impression that the A-10C is like some super-modern redo of the A-10A but it really isn't exactly that. The plane doesn't have any fly by wire and none of the original CCIP/CCRP capability has been removed or changed (at least significantly enough to matter for your purposes). You can still use the A-10C EXACTLY like you would use the A-10A. The big difference is obviously that the A-10A has low systems fidelity and thus will not really give you the options that even the real aircraft would have. The A-10C doesn't have those limitations. It is more to learn but that learning process can be really fun and really satisfying if you embrace it and don't fight against it arbitrarily. I would even go as far as to argue that the A-10C takes more raw skill than the A-10A because it gives you the tools to really apply that skill (and I am not talking about the precision munitions or the targeting pod here, I am talking about basic stuff). 

 

  

[kontiuka]

On 2/26/2021 at 8:45 AM, MIghtymoo said:

For me right now it is actually the DCS Mission Editor 

 

I'm waiting for it to go on sale.

 

On 2/26/2021 at 9:45 AM, Desert Fox said:

Since this one has not been mentioned at all so far (and rarely is, which is sad), i'd like to throw in the C-101.

+1

Edited March 8, 2021 by kontiuka

[M1Combat]

If you have any interest in Heli's then the KA50 is a no brainer for sure.  It is phenomenal and designed from the ground up to be deployed by a single person.

[IkarusC42B Pilot]

Just buy the module you want the most; dont spend money on modules you dont like just because theyre easier because its a waste of money