DCS: F-16C Viper Roadmap

[Spurts]

Remember, only about ~1% of all legacy hornets ere EPE Lot 20s.  so ANY testimony or video is 99% not our Hornet in DCS.  The ONLY official documentation that is google-able on a Lot20 turn rate does indeed state the following...

"Navy Aviation: F/A-18E/F will provide marginal operational improvement at high cost" is the GAO document. 

https://books.google.com/books?id=XCcLAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA30&lpg=PA30&dq=F/A-18E+sustained+turn&source=bl&ots=VDPtcyELXn&sig=UJf5CawaEWf0_qeoPm5grVY5xT4&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CDkQ6AEwBWoVChMI5OyCgpmLyQIVTzqICh1-KQ9S#v=onepage&q=F%2FA-18E sustained turn&f=false

page 29

engine F/A-18C/D F404-GE-402 EPE

page 30

"At sea level the F/A-18C's sustained turn rate is 19.2 degrees per second... (Super Hornet comparison follows) The instantaneous bleed rate of the F/A-18C is 54 knots per second... (Super Hornet comparison follows)   * Weapons load is 2 AIM-9 and 2 AIM-120 carried externally, no external fuel tanks and 60 percent fuel remaining"   

The Lot 20 is not overperforming.  Get over it.  Assume that every account you have ever seen or read was not a Lot 20 (which would be a 99% certainty) and move on.  This thread is about the Viper, not the Hornet.  You want to say the Viper isn't rating right?  Wait until they are done tuning the FM.  ED knows it isn't right yet, that's why they are working on it.  

That said, unless they reduce the G impact on the pilot (the entire reason for the reclined seat) then it won't matter, you'll black out before you can out rate anything.

[Bagpipe]

On 10/12/2021 at 5:49 PM, Versor said:

Something has to change. The video in 2:30 shows that the F-18 is not as maneuverable at low speeds and cannot turn back on the spot, as it is in the DCS.

The F-16 is not that poorly maneuverable at low speeds. I can't operate my Viper nose like that at low speeds.

Overall, it seems to me that the F-18 too quickly recovering his low speed. The F-16 accelerates from low speeds as if it had half the available thrust.

What you think guys.

 

 

This is what posting off the cuff comments and videos on these forums gets you...look what you have done! Hang your head in shame. the stress you have caused these poor souls is unbearable to watch 

Edited October 14, 2021 by Bagpipe

[SCPanda]

12 hours ago, wilbur81 said:

Nice 

That's interesting that you fly a jet "almost exclusively" in MP that you find ugly and believe to be over-performing. Do you get satisfaction out of those "anytime" and "without a sweat" victories over those underperforming Vipers, knowing that you have (in your assessment) an unfair advantage?

 

 

 

Again, ignoring the facts, shifting the argument from turn performance to how I fly in DCS, and twisting my words (you should really consider a job in politics haha).

How I fly in DCS is none of your business. But I will try to explain this to you since maybe you are bad at dogfighting and don't play in the dogfight servers. In dogfight servers most people fly the Hornet, so it's Hornet vs Hornet most of the time. Because that's the only fair fight you can get, with equal piloting skills, no other jets in DCS can beat the Hornet. The fact that almost everyone flew the Hornet in last year's Folds of Honor dogfight competition proves that. That's why I fly the Hornet almost exclusively, I can't control what jet others fly, can I? Whenever I see someone select the Viper, I fly the Viper against him. I CAN beat a Viper in Hornet "without a sweat", doesn't mean I will do it. That is just boring and not challenging. 

But hey, none of this matters, since the original discussion was about Viper vs Hornet in a rate fight. So let me ask you a direct question, and I hope you can man up and give me a direct anwser: In your belief, wilbur81, do you think our DCS Viper (clean no pylon 50% fuel) can ourrate our DCS Hornet (clean no pylon 50% fuel) on the sea level when the Hornet is not pulling the paddle? 

[TheBigTatanka]

I started this discussion over in the hornet forums because it was about Hornet sustained turn rate with pylons vs without..... I was just looking for numbers on our DCS Hornet. Somehow it turned into a hornet vs viper rate flight model discussion, and an admin merged it with the viper roadmap thread ...... Which i regret, lol.

One thing we've asked ED to do is, when the flight models are done, is to publish EM diagrams for the jets in game (as they fly in game). That would give us a good starting point to continue this discussion, which at present has gotten a bit ugly.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

[Wizard_03]

14 hours ago, TheBigTatanka said:

I started this discussion over in the hornet forums because it was about Hornet sustained turn rate with pylons vs without..... I was just looking for numbers on our DCS Hornet. Somehow it turned into a hornet vs viper rate flight model discussion, and an admin merged it with the viper roadmap thread ...... Which i regret, lol.

One thing we've asked ED to do is, when the flight models are done, is to publish EM diagrams for the jets in game (as they fly in game). That would give us a good starting point to continue this discussion, which at present has gotten a bit ugly.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk
 

They already said they won't, I'm pretty sure the charts or data pertaining to them is export controlled. The block 50 vipers is not. 

Edited October 15, 2021 by Wizard_03

[WobblyFlops]

1 hour ago, Wizard_03 said:

The already said they won't, I'm pretty sure the charts or data pertaining to them is export controlled

If it's export controlled how can it be implemented in the game? Anyone can extract the data and with enough time and testing make an EM chart for any fighter in the game. I honestly don't believe they actually said this, it's just... well not very likely. How can the performance of something in a video game be export controlled? Just to emphasize my point, we're talking about EM charts for the aicraft as they perform in the game. Real EM charts are surely export controlled but that's not what the poster you're replying to was talking about.

[BIGNEWY]

Please stay on topic for the Viper roadmap 

Thank you

[NineLine]

Please note BIGNEWY's post above, I have removed more OT. I dont want to close this thread, but if there is nothing more to talk about related to the OP, then it doesnt need to be open.

[wilbur81]

15 hours ago, TheBigTatanka said:

I started this discussion over in the hornet forums because it was about Hornet sustained turn rate with pylons vs without..... I was just looking for numbers on our DCS Hornet. Somehow it turned into a hornet vs viper rate flight model discussion, and an admin merged it with the viper roadmap thread ...... Which i regret, lol.

One thing we've asked ED to do is, when the flight models are done, is to publish EM diagrams for the jets in game (as they fly in game). That would give us a good starting point to continue this discussion, which at present has gotten a bit ugly.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk
 

Thanks, Big-T. 

[Versor]

NineLine I think that my last comment was about Viper development. But ok if you think that was not.

Edited October 15, 2021 by Versor

[lurch0080]

so i imagine at the moment when the HTS is released, we will only carry either the litening or the hts till the sniper comes out? due mostly to you cant carry the litening with an hts as far as the documentation goes and im curious how ED plans to go about its implementation

[Tholozor]

Weren't Block 50/52 F-16s modified in the mid-2000s to be able to mount the HTS on the left hardpoint though? They certainly budgeted for it, and there's definitely visual evidence supporting HTS on the left, but not necessarily HTS combined with LITENING.
https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/budget/fy2004/usaf-peds/0207136F.pdf

Edited October 16, 2021 by Tholozor

[chaos]

Why would you want to carry both the litening-pod ànd the HTS at the same time? These tools are for different mission types…

[Tholozor]

21 minutes ago, chaos said:

Why would you want to carry both the litening-pod ànd the HTS at the same time? These tools are for different mission types…

They're not mutually exclusive. The HTS can be used for HARMs, yes, but it can also be used as a reconnaissance tool to determine the locations of emitters for attack with any kind of ordnance, not just with HARMs. You could use the HTS to get within the general area, and refine closer with a TGP.

Edited October 16, 2021 by Tholozor

[Enduro14]

5 minutes ago, Tholozor said:

They're not mutually exclusive. The HTS can be used for HARMs, yes, but it can also be used as a reconnaissance tool to determine the locations of emitters for attack with any kind of ordnance, not just with HARMs. You could use the HTS to get within the general area, and refine closer with a TGP.

 

Exactly this!

[Falconeer]

2 hours ago, chaos said:

Why would you want to carry both the litening-pod ànd the HTS at the same time? These tools are for different mission types…

Also, thats not a Litening pod, it's the newer Sniper advanced targeting pod 

Edited October 16, 2021 by Falconeer

[FoxOne007]

5 hours ago, Tholozor said:

Weren't Block 50/52 F-16s modified in the mid-2000s to be able to mount the HTS on the left hardpoint though? They certainly budgeted for it, and there's definitely visual evidence supporting HTS on the left, but not necessarily HTS combined with LITENING.
https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/budget/fy2004/usaf-peds/0207136F.pdf

 

There is some docs that state that the HTS and LITENING don't work together, if loaded together it would then leave the LITENING INOP iirc

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

Another picture of SNIPER an HTS loaded at the same time (this is my DCS main menu background that replaces the F-16 render by ED):

[Wizard_03]

Might one of those things where it's a pain in the butt to take off for the ground crew, so once its on, it stays on even if the mission doesn't require it. ATFILR for the Hornet is like that, Typically the birds with the pod keep it and its not unloaded after sorties, and the same jets have it and others don't, without much swapping.

[lurch0080]

15 hours ago, Wizard_03 said:

Might one of those things where it's a pain in the butt to take off for the ground crew, so once its on, it stays on even if the mission doesn't require it. ATFILR for the Hornet is like that, Typically the birds with the pod keep it and its not unloaded after sorties, and the same jets have it and others don't, without much swapping.

not really the reason, pods are easy to swap out. its based on SCL's and CG requirements but litenings cant be carried due to its laser mask restrictions imposed by the HTS pod. however hts pods also work as ELINT pods so it can be useful, as well can slave sensors to a sam threat so you can get eyes on it

 

On 10/16/2021 at 8:17 AM, Tholozor said:

Weren't Block 50/52 F-16s modified in the mid-2000s to be able to mount the HTS on the left hardpoint though? They certainly budgeted for it, and there's definitely visual evidence supporting HTS on the left, but not necessarily HTS combined with LITENING.
https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/budget/fy2004/usaf-peds/0207136F.pdf

 

you are correct the hts does get mounted on the left hardpoint it has to do with a laser masking restriction imposed by the hts on the litening. sniper pods on the other hand are often carried with the HTS

Edited October 17, 2021 by lurch0080
needed clarification

[Versor]

Radar A-G looks aahhhh so gorgeous. Phenomenal work. I can't wait to use it.

[Airhunter]

31 minutes ago, Versor said:

 I can't wait to use it.

To do what with it? It is never used in real life by real crews nor even trained for. 

[Versor]

10 minutes ago, Airhunter said:

To do what with it? It is never used in real life by real crews nor even trained for. 

Doesn't matter but i will use it.

[FoxOne007]

[Versor]

OK but what about Pilot body ?