15Yr Anniversary Q&A: Answering 'Performance' in DCS

[[ED] Makr]

Dear Community,

We are immensely grateful for the tremendous response we received to the Developer Q&A we initiated late last year. The sheer volume and thoughtfulness of questions we received was astounding.

Over the coming months, we will steadily answer all of your 1900+ questions by splitting them into categories and publishing a new video and forum post for each. We believe that this detailed approach is the most suitable approach to repaying your dedication to DCS and we greatly appreciate your patience in the time it took us to organise and gather answers. Thank you for your support.

Please read today’s Newsletter for greater context of the thread below, which is the first of many.

 

15th Anniversary Q&A: ‘Performance’ in DCS 

This thread has been created to host the written answers for the ‘Performance’ Category.

Wags covers most of the questions in the published video, but additional and written answers are available here and below too. Please join Wags as he talks around 'Performance' in DCS:

Where usernames were submitted with questions, these have been included below. Please write to either BigNewy or NineLine if you do not want your name to be displayed.

Name/Username	Your Question:	ANSWER FOR PUBLICATION
dutchchili	Realistic missions requires sheer numbers of planes and ground units. What can we expect this year in terms of performance improvements to facilitate such missions. Both in single player and multi-player?	When delivering MT we saw improvements to MP sessions. As the simulation's size and user expectation grows, performance improvements are not often easy and simple to deliver, especially when we integrate more graphical and visual updates. The implementation of DLSS, FSR, and Vulkan will (in future 2-3 years) both give improvements and increase our scope to facilitate continued performance upgrades. However, performance vs graphical beauty is always a compromise affected by hardware. As components improve, so will we.
Mason0920	The multithreading update was a huge improvement for overall performance, Does Eagle dynamics have any future plans to improve the game engines performance going forward?	Yes, we have multiple plans to improve the performance, but users must not expect any magic button. The delivery of MT and DLSS have been well received, and FSR advancement will help too. We're working on Vulkan, but this will give us the platform to expand from rather than an immediate boost, so after initial delivery please do not expect anything significantly noticeable for some time while we work at it. Every time we add new features and updates the additional complexity means more performance is always required and it is a constant battle.
K6D	Are there any plans to incorporate Nvidia or AMD frame generation technology? I have used it in Microsoft Flight Simulator and it has greatly enhanced my experience, especially because I play at 4k 120hz. Without it, the unsteady frame rates tend to bother me a lot.	Not in the near future. But later 100%.
Phoenix 1-1 | ViperForce	Will FSR 3, and other general performance improvements be added to the core engine in the near future?	We are working on Vulkan API as a necessary step to advancing FSR. If FSR 3 will have Vulkan support in future, we will plan to integrate it. This will not happen in the near future.
*Freelancer* Jaghammer	What is planned for future Multithreading implementation/improvements? eg split DCS graphics or Simulation pipeline into more threads	We already have two independent layers. Graphics being what you see and Logic translating how it all behaves. So far, MT has been implemented into the graphics layer. The next big improvement will be successful implementation into the Logic layer, but we cannot share a timeline for this, other than it will definitely not be complete this year.
JET4LT	How is the rendergraph engine progressing? Can we expect to see hardware agnostic upscaling tech such as FSR3 in the near future?	The Render Graph is evolving but we have no details to share right now. We are with FSR1 and are implementing Vulkan which will allow steps to FSR2 and maybe FSR3 if support is introduced (FSR3 is at the moment DX12 only). This will not happen in the near future.
Snowblind	How are the core tech enhancemts coming? Is the multi core as good as it’s going to get or should we expect more performance improvements to come soon (within a year)	We plan to deliver more performance improvements and currently working on them. We will deliver them on-by-one and some of them will be done during the year and others will come later.
suti1979	Could you make more effort to finish multithreading? It's unusable for me and most of my friends. (my setup: i9 12900, 3060Ti) Unusable: laggs, freezes, slow, no improvement on fps at all.	Please, report the bugs and provide tracks. We need to understand in details what is going on for you. Because a lot of people received the improvement of the performance. We would like to focus on your cases.
Vojtěch Oujezdský	Will DCS ever support ai upscaling?	This was introduced with DCS 2.9
Raven (Elysian Angel)	Burning question since DLSS was announced: what happened to ED’s stance on not incorporating proprietary technology? Why not focus on FSR (2 or 3) instead, even though it is widely considered to be inferior to DLSS at this time: it is open-source after all…	DLSS has been implemented. FSR 1 is implemented and we are working toward integration of Vulkan API which will allow us to explore FSR 2 and beyond.
ZeakQ	Will you implement newer versions of DLSS?	We support 3.5.10. Yes, we will implement further updates.
Loukuins	When does DLAA and DLSS will be implemented?	Implemented.
PricklyHH72	Can we expect further roll outs of the multi-threading system for DCSCORE, or is it complete?	We delivered graphics MT which we announced and worked on. There will be another round for Multi Threading to be implemented into logical level of the game. We have already started to work on it in several areas such as ground units. We will not talk about time lines and milestones. The logical level will be improved step by step and MT will be partially delivered at each stage.
Fwood2	Are you gonna make DCS have better performance	Our work on MT, DLSS and Vulkan demonstrates our commitment to improving DCS performance

Thank you for your input and dedication to DCS. We look forward to sharing more with you soon.

[ThorBrasil]

Thanks for the answers. I would like to request the DLSS update to the latest version, which is 3.7.0. It had improvements in the image and reduced ghosting effects. Thanks!

[BIGNEWY]

11 minutes ago, ThorBrasil said:

Thanks for the answers. I would like to request the DLSS update to the latest version, which is 3.7.0. It had improvements in the image and reduced ghosting effects. Thanks!

We are testing newer versions, but we will need time to check them. 

thank you 

[Ala12Rv-watermanpc]

17 minutes ago, ThorBrasil said:

Thanks for the answers. I would like to request the DLSS update to the latest version, which is 3.7.0. It had improvements in the image and reduced ghosting effects. Thanks!

You can update de DLSS dll to 3.7 version: 

https://www.techpowerup.com/download/nvidia-dlss-dll/

I see no clear difference with previous versions but you might like to give a try 

[Beirut]

If Wags was any smoother in his delivery, his image would glide right off the screen. 

[_BringTheReign_]

Great to hear about all the work being done on Vulkan, looking forward to that and the FSR 2 integration it can bring! 

[nikoel]

Hey Wags

Was great seeing you answer the questions appreciate the transparency. Especially how we as a community get to interact with developers and the team as a whole. It's not something that many other software companies do and I really appreciate it

I know it's a difficult time with the current developments with a third party provider, but I very much hope it's a minor speed-bump that will be quickly moved on from where both parties are satisfied with the result

Looking forward to the next video

[Wags]

5 minutes ago, nikoel said:

Hey Wags

Was great seeing you answer the questions appreciate the transparency. Especially how we as a community get to interact with developers and the team as a whole. It's not something that many other software companies do and I really appreciate it

I know it's a difficult time with the current developments with a third party provider, but I very much hope it's a minor speed-bump that will be quickly moved on from where both parties are satisfied with the result

Looking forward to the next video

You are very welcome. I look forward to more such videos every couple of weeks, or so.

Kind regards,

Wags

[Foka]

The very worst Q&A I ever saw.

Answers to questions we already knew, about technologies implemented for weeks, if not months.
Answers to questions about future as always with the ED - "someday, maybe yes, maybe no", and as we all know official timelines are less accurate than kid's storytells.

Literally no info, or answers on current matters or new projects. Q&A no one asked for. Q&A no one needed.

Edited April 5 by Foka

[dutchili]

30 minutes ago, Wags said:

You are very welcome. I look forward to more such videos every couple of weeks, or so.

Kind regards,

Wags

Can you try and make the answers more concrete?
'working on it' -> planned for May
'performance improvement' -> the number of calculations will be reduced by 10%. FPS effect depends on your system. We tested with .... and resulted in xyz FPS
'system dependent' -> we've accomplish a constant 90+ fps on instant mission 'performance test' with an i9 ....RTX ....
(a test mission would be great for the community to test if they have local issues, if you provide a reference performance. This also ensures that you can do performance regression testing_

[gutersnipe]

Hi 

Thanks for taking time to answer all the questions. I have a question for VR performance. Will Dynamic Foveated Rendering be implemented natively into the DCS game engine. This will help with performance as it can be integrated deeper into that engine and also it will mean not having to manage multiple 3rd party apps to get technology like quad views running while playing the game as more and more headsets are supporting eye tracking. 

 

Thanks 

Clayton 

[ThorBrasil]

59 minutes ago, Ala12Rv-watermanpc said:

You can update de DLSS dll to 3.7 version: 

https://www.techpowerup.com/download/nvidia-dlss-dll/

I see no clear difference with previous versions but you might like to give a try 

From what I've seen, the programmer has to choose the profile for it to work correctly. It looks like the new preset they put in is the letter E in version 3.7 which improves the image and reduces ghosting. The presets are classified by letters and the most used is C. That's more or less that. It's not enough to just replace.

[NineLine]

38 minutes ago, Foka said:

The very worst Q&A I ever saw.

Answers to questions we already knew, about technologies implemented for weeks, if not months.
Answers to questions about future as always with the ED - "someday, maybe yes, maybe no", and as we all know official timelines are less accurate than kid's storytells.

Literally no info, or answers on current matters or new projects. Q&A no one asked for. Q&A no one needed.

 

Actually, this Q&A was 100% driven by users so maybe you know the answers or didn't enjoy it, but others might. We have more videos on other topics coming soon. Maybe one of those will be more to your liking. Thanks for the feedback. 

[ColinM9991]

Are there plans to release all questions that were submitted? I'd imagine it'd be similar to what Navigraph do with their flight sim surveys.

It'd be interesting to see what topics were covered and to get some touch points around the most popular categories/subjects.

In all honesty, it's taken 7 months to get any update on this. It's more likely that many of the questions are no longer relevant, as is clear in this video.

[NineLine]

Just now, ColinM9991 said:

Are there plans to release all questions that were submitted? I'd imagine it'd be similar to what Navigraph do with their flight sim surveys.

It'd be interesting to see what topics were covered and to get some touch points around the most popular categories/subjects.

In all honesty, it's taken 7 months to get any update on this. It's more likely that many of the questions are no longer relevant, as is clear in this video.

We will release them as above. With each new video we will include them and the answers. Thanks!

[ColinM9991]

3 minutes ago, NineLine said:

We will release them as above. With each new video we will include them and the answers. Thanks!

That clarifies things. I wasn't sure if the list above was a set of handpicked questions, or an exhaustive list of all questions related to performance. I'd have expected more, but appreciate that it's likely broken down into subcategories also as this Q&A seems to be more on the graphical side with some multi threading questions in there.

[Maybe]

I was a little disappointed that no significant mention was made of the game AI and how it can be made more efficient, or its workings separated potentially outside of the main game thread. More units is a challenge for the client side to be sure, but even if you could render a whole airland battle, it won't bring you much joy when the gameserver chuggs to death because a script asked some armoured units to move to a town across the river and pathfinding exploded. Ditto considerations about running IADS, although there has been movement on that very recently.

[Silver_Dragon]

3 minutes ago, Maybe said:

I was a little disappointed that no significant mention was made of the game AI and how it can be made more efficient, or its workings separated potentially outside of the main game thread. More units is a challenge for the client side to be sure, but even if you could render a whole airland battle, it won't bring you much joy when the gameserver chuggs to death because a script asked some armoured units to move to a town across the river and pathfinding exploded. Ditto considerations about running IADS, although there has been movement on that very recently.

AI has nothing to do with perfomance, that is other area on DCS. Remember, that is only one of many videos with Wags has talked about DCS themes on the future.

Edited April 5 by Silver_Dragon

[Gunfreak]

2 minutes ago, Silver_Dragon said:

AI has nothing to do with perfomance, that is other area on DCS. Remember, that is only one of many videos with Wags has talked about DCS themes on the future.

 

AI can be one of the biggest resource Hogs in DCS, both graphically and CPU. So yes AI a lot to do with performance. Making AI less resource heavy can drastically improve performance.

[splash]

Many thanks for the video and the transcription of answers, for non-English spoken people is very grateful.

[AJaromir]

1 minute ago, Gunfreak said:

AI can be one of the biggest resource Hogs in DCS, both graphically and CPU. So yes AI a lot to do with performance. Making AI less resource heavy can drastically improve performance.

For that reason the special flight model, called "GFM" or General Flight Model is now made for AI aircrafts.

[Gunfreak]

1 minute ago, AJaromir said:

For that reason the special flight model, called "GFM" or General Flight Model is now made for AI aircrafts.

Which is nice. But helps nothing with the main AI performance drag, ground AI. Nothing drains performance as much as many ground units moving and shooting (shooting at the ground or air) 

[NineLine]

11 minutes ago, Gunfreak said:

AI can be one of the biggest resource Hogs in DCS, both graphically and CPU. So yes AI a lot to do with performance. Making AI less resource heavy can drastically improve performance.

Please try and talk about what was in the video. More videos to come and more subjects to be covered. Thanks.

[AJaromir]

9 minutes ago, Gunfreak said:

Which is nice. But helps nothing with the main AI performance drag, ground AI. Nothing drains performance as much as many ground units moving and shooting (shooting at the ground or air) 

As far as I remember, ED works on system of time based "deferred" calculation for low-priority units - in distance - invisible.

Edited April 5 by AJaromir

[Asphelite]

Hey all,

First: Thanks to Wags for taking his time to make the Q&A Video Series. (even though many questions in the video have already answered by the game being updated, not a bad thing dont get me wrong)

What I would like to know though, would be how big the dev team is that currently works on implementing the Multithreading Tech into DCS? Also curious to know if the devs are also working on other elements in parallel, having to split their time.

Thanks.