Oculus Rift and DCS World Discussion

[blksolo]

Now if we could just get Nvidia and AMD to give us more bang for the buck on video cards we'll be all set!!

[BHawthorne]

If anyone wants to know about Crystal Cove in detail I had 15 minutes of seat time with it on Thursday. Talked with Palmer for 30 minutes about goals and direction of Nthusim HMD development.

 

 

Also had seat time with the previous Rift HD prototype to compare and contrast thanks to contacts at AMD.

[BIGNEWY]

If anyone wants to know about Crystal Cove in detail I had 15 minutes of seat time with it on Thursday. Talked with Palmer for 30 minutes about goals and direction of Nthusim HMD development.

 

 

Also had seat time with the previous Rift HD prototype to compare and contrast thanks to contacts at AMD.

 

WoW BHawthorne very lucky,

 

I would like a full write up of your experience and the release date of Oculus ;)

[WildBillKelsoe]

does DCS work with this? I wear glasses (-6R/-6.5L). Do I get cross-eyes? I've seen vids (2) of A-10C but 2 monitors in 2 eyes?

[BHawthorne]

WoW BHawthorne very lucky,

 

I would like a full write up of your experience and the release date of Oculus ;)

 

A lot of what Palmer and I talked about is proprietary to Nthusim, but the Crystal Cove demo info I can publicly disclose. They've done much to address the short comings of previous builds. I speculate there'll be several more prototype builds after Crystal Cove -- evolving into Dev Kit 2 and then consumer version. Crystal Cove just happened to be the prototype they had ready for CES 2014. The head tracking used IR target points on the front and sides of the HMD that were picked up by an IR camera device in front of the user about 3 feet away. It allowed for approximately 300 degrees of rotation for a seated person before it broke positional tracking. Basically, if you were to do a gaming seat for a HOTAS setup, that sort of tracking would work fine. The OLED panel they used had a more vibrant color gamut and did a few new tricks to negate ghosting and motion blur when quickly panning your head around. Overall, the Crystal Cove prototype would be what I would like to see as the baseline for the consumer model. I realize that Crystal Cove is basically a one off and merely a stepping stone to the next prototypes. I'm happy with that, as it means we'll see even further improvements over the next few months.

 

To paraphrase Palmer, it'll be ready when it's ready. ;)

Edited January 12, 2014 by BHawthorne

[BIGNEWY]

Thanks for sharing your insight :)

 

I've stopped all cockpit building as I intend to go down the VR route, all the news that is coming out at the moment is very encouraging.

[average_pilot]

does DCS work with this? I wear glasses (-6R/-6.5L). Do I get cross-eyes? I've seen vids (2) of A-10C but 2 monitors in 2 eyes?

It's pretty much the same that looking at the real world. You don't have to make any effort.

[mhe]

I'm sure it will be great HMD, this low persistence mode sounds very interesting, however I have my concerns of how it turn out in terms of flicker.

As side comment - Oculus developers don't know if they will use optical tracking in the end, and they are not sure about panel - as said "at least full HD or higher".

 

This low persistence they are talking about is in fact a big deal for motion blur. And it is not like you're going to notice any flickering. There is an Asus gaming monitor out there that does the same thing, Asus calls this feature LightBoost. And it really helps to alleviate motion blur. Combining this with the awesomely fast switching time of OLED displays is the way to go I think. You might perhaps even get faster switching times with DLP projection, but DLP is prone to the rainbow effects for some people (which would induce really heavy headaches in VR I think).

 

The Avegant Glyph uses DLP projection directly to the eye, we'll see how they do.

[Vedexent]

Crystal Cove Prototype had significantly improved dotpitch and px response time, I doubt we'd have any problems with it in DCS.

 

You could be right; I hope you are!

 

But I'm a skeptic - in the sense that I want data not speculation. I'm not a cynic though - in that I am not sure that it won't work unless I have data.

Edited January 13, 2014 by Vedexent

[Vedexent]

I think when it comes out it will be awesome. When it is updated it will be awesomer. :joystick:

 

And people say religious belief is on the wane (i.e. Religious belief: a conviction without direct empirical, objectively verified, evidence; not necessarily wrong, just not supported in a Western scientific sense).

[danilop]

Crystal Cove Prototype had significantly improved dotpitch and px response time, I doubt we'd have any problems with it in DCS.

 

How much significant?

 

It may sound like nitpicking, but it's essential. 300dpi is enough for print quality (we tend to read from 18-20" distance) and 24" FHD(1080p) display is about 90dpi which is fine desktop resolution for our purpose.

 

Now, OR display is only couple of inches (or so) away from the eyes, so basically we need around 800-900 DPI panel to have the same experience as standard 1080p 24" desktop monitor (resolution wise).

 

Consumer 900dpi display is some years (decades?) away :)

 

And if by miracle, such displays appear overnight, we would probably need quad SLI GTX780ti to power it in DCS.

Edited January 13, 2014 by danilop

[wasyl00]

Consumer 900dpi display is some years (decades?) away :)

 

Well.. future is not that far as you think. The rift's community rummor mill churns at full speed. Samsung is expected to announce Samsung S5 with the incredible 2560x1440 AMOLED screen in 5-5.2" package. Thats- if I'm not wrong around 570 dpi.

 

http://phandroid.com/2014/01/13/samsung-galaxy-s5-specs-rumor/

Edited January 13, 2014 by wasyl00
Link added

[danilop]

Even that Amoled is way too low in DPI department for OR. It's fine for handheld device which is viewed at much larger distance.

 

We need at least 4K 5" display (3840x2160, 880DPI) to equal 1080p 24" monitor at standard (20"+) viewing distance. And for 4K we need cutting edge gaming PC to have decent FPS.

Edited January 13, 2014 by danilop

[SkateZilla]

new Prototype uses 1080P, which at 7 Inches Diagonal and 1.78 Aspect Ratio is 314 PPI,

But I Think Crystal Cove Prototype also uses a Smaller Screen, so PPI would be higher. I Dont have a unit to take apart to measure the screen.

[SkateZilla]

Even that Amoled is way too low in DPI department for OR. It's fine for handheld device which is viewed at much larger distance.

 

We need at least 4K 5" display (3840x2160, 880DPI) to equal 1080p 24" monitor at standard (20"+) viewing distance. And for 4K we need cutting edge gaming PC to have decent FPS.

 

How are you coming up with that guess?; by holding your Monitor 4 inches from your face? (dont worry, I did it too),

 

24 inch 1080p PPI is 92 (rounded up from 91.279)

[danilop]

:D No need for that. And I cannot focus closer than 5" anyway ... :lol:

 

Well, math is obvious ... ten times less viewing distance, ten times bigger the object (pixel in this case)

 

...24" FHD(1080p) display is about 90dpi which is fine desktop resolution for our purpose.

...

Edited January 13, 2014 by danilop

[SkateZilla]

Pretty sure the lenses and focus system not to mention the filter they added on the surface help fix the screen door effect caused by the 1 gen devkits being a 200 DPI Unit.

 

Assuming the Venture into 1440p, and remain at 7' the PPI will be 419, or if they stay at 1080p and drop down to a 5.4 inch screen like they planned they'd be at 408 PPI

Edited January 13, 2014 by SkateZilla

[danilop]

Something around 500 DPI at Oculus viewing distances would be equivalent of 1280x720 27" display at desktop viewing distance.

 

Mediocre, resolution wise.

 

Probably more than OK for FPS games. Not so for flight sims, especially mud movers (need as much resolution as practical for spotting targets with MK I Eyeball)

 

But let's be positive, I hope that display industry will quickly follow the expected worldwide OR craze when it gets released. Oculus MKII or later will be the perfect VR product.

Edited January 13, 2014 by danilop

[SkateZilla]

:D No need for that. And I cannot focus closer than 5" anyway ... :lol:

 

Well, math is obvious ... ten times less viewing distance, ten times bigger the object (pixel in this case)

 

I view my screens from about 18-24 inches,

 

Using a similar focus lens setup as OR with a "Warped/Pinned" Image on screen,

 

My 24" ASUS as the same screen door effect as the first gen Prototype. (Well, worse actually, way worse) 90 PPI vs 214~ PPI

 

My 7 Inch Tablet with 320DPI (1920x1200), the SD Effect is Barely visible.

 

My 7 Inch Tablet, with 400DPI (1440p) I can no longer see the screen door effects. But this Tablet also has Coating on the Screen that the other screens do not.

 

So if OR Drops to a 5.4 Inch 1080p Screen, it should be OK, but I'm pretty sure on the forums that they are looking into 1440p now.

 

But the more PPI the better.

Edited January 13, 2014 by SkateZilla

[Buznee]

A lot of what Palmer and I talked about is proprietary to Nthusim, but the Crystal Cove demo info I can publicly disclose. They've done much to address the short comings of previous builds. I speculate there'll be several more prototype builds after Crystal Cove -- evolving into Dev Kit 2 and then consumer version. Crystal Cove just happened to be the prototype they had ready for CES 2014. The head tracking used IR target points on the front and sides of the HMD that were picked up by an IR camera device in front of the user about 3 feet away. It allowed for approximately 300 degrees of rotation for a seated person before it broke positional tracking. Basically, if you were to do a gaming seat for a HOTAS setup, that sort of tracking would work fine. The OLED panel they used had a more vibrant color gamut and did a few new tricks to negate ghosting and motion blur when quickly panning your head around. Overall, the Crystal Cove prototype would be what I would like to see as the baseline for the consumer model. I realize that Crystal Cove is basically a one off and merely a stepping stone to the next prototypes. I'm happy with that, as it means we'll see even further improvements over the next few months.

 

To paraphrase Palmer, it'll be ready when it's ready. ;)

 

Any Discussion with them regarding DCS? Are they aware of us simmers as oculus consumers? =) Last I heard regarding DCS implementation of oculus was they were waiting on receiving their SDK.

[jib]

The new Oculas rift with the IR tracking (just like TrackIR but wider movement range) will be great news for flight simmers (it is a mature tracking technology), not very good for people wanting to build there own vr holodeck where they can walk around :doh:

[lobo]

If anyone wants to know about Crystal Cove in detail I had 15 minutes of seat time with it on Thursday.

 

With the Crystal Cove strapped on can you see out the bottom at all, or around the nose area? I'm wondering if they have considered the need to view the outside world without taking the OR off... Could you get a glimpse of the keyboard while using it?

 

What about reading text? ie on a HUD...

 

Thanks for sharing! :thumbup:

Edited January 13, 2014 by lobo**

[SkateZilla]

Any Discussion with them regarding DCS? Are they aware of us simmers as oculus consumers? =) Last I heard regarding DCS implementation of oculus was they were waiting on receiving their SDK.

 

Wags had a DevKit1 a few weeks ago if I'm not mistaken.

[hansangb]

The new Oculas rift with the IR tracking (just like TrackIR but wider movement range) will be great news for flight simmers (it is a mature tracking technology), not very good for people wanting to build there own vr holodeck where they can walk around :doh:

 

 

flight simmers with HOTAS. *Or* enough resolution that pointing at instruments with LEAP is enough to activate toggles/switches etc.

[blksolo]

SteamVR Beta is out for Oculus,I tried it and its actually pretty cool,gives you the ability to use the steam interface in VR,you can also browse the web,youtube etc with it!! http://www.roadtovr.com/steamvr-beta-valve-oculus-rift-steam-dev-days/