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I think more FC style modules would be cool


aidanw2000
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personally i'd love to see some more flaming cliffs style modules with different era planes, like a simplified module but with multiple aircraft, I'd love to see a world war 2 one, with a early model spit, late model spit, a 109, a 190, a p-38, a zero, a tempest and a bf 110 perhaps. A Korea one would be cool with a f-80, bearcat, skyknight, corsair, la 9, la 11, a vampire and a sea fury as would a Vietnam one with the F-4, F-100, F-104, Skyraider, Mig 17, Mig 19, early Mig 21 and A-7.

Thoughts? its personally on my wishlist

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Refer to another thread that was basically the same to see majority of us resoundingly saying: nope...

 

I think existance of current FC3 already is an affront to everything else, but it had a reason to exist.

Wishlist: F-4E Block 53 +, MiG-27K, Su-17M3 or M4, AH-1F or W circa 80s or early 90s, J35 Draken, Kfir C7, Mirage III/V

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Thoughts? its personally on my wishlist

 

My thoughts are that, since ED has stated that there will be no more FC level aircraft, there will be no more FC level aircraft.

 

Face it, if the ED wanted more of them, we would already have them.

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The narrow mindedness of people on this forum never ceases to amaze me. That's why you rarely see me here these days.

 

All I see are people with selfish attitudes and big egos.

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@brixmis

 

It's neither ego nor attitude.

 

ED has indeed explicitly stated they will never do FC level aircraft again. And it is true that other games already cover what the OP is asking for. What is the one thing that sets DCS apart? The full simulation. That is literally its 'shtick'.

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Hmmm another day, another experience, today I have learned that, one should not have an idea in opposition of any suggestion, and should always agree, no matter how wrong it seems to them, consideration be damned, you agree everything, or you are an egotistical monster.

 

I am humbled...

Wishlist: F-4E Block 53 +, MiG-27K, Su-17M3 or M4, AH-1F or W circa 80s or early 90s, J35 Draken, Kfir C7, Mirage III/V

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Well, I wouldn't mind an FC3 level modern 4th gen Russian fighter since ED have expressly stated they are not going to make a DCS level one.

 

Even FC3 aircraft are way superior to any other simulator in terms of flight model and systems accuracy. We're getting quite a lot of Western/NATO DCS birds, but there's nothing on the Russian front and there won't be any at DCS level. So, an FC3 level aircraft would serve a purpose IMHO.


Edited by Kunz
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It seems to me FC3 planes are keyboard only, and others are clickable cockpit? Are there other differences?

 

Don't all "clickable cockpit" aircraft also have keyboard control options?

 

The difference between FC3 aircraft and full fidelity aircraft is with FC3 aircraft, you can't interact with the cockpit and the systems detail and modelling (and thus fidelity) is less than a full fidelity aircraft. DCS is supposed to be a full fidelity simulator, hence why no more FC3 style aircraft are being developed. Like I've said I wouldn't mind FC3 aircraft as a quasi-interim to a full fidelity aircraft but the you might as well just have development concentrated on the full fidelity instead of bug fixing a released interim aircraft - which increases workload.


Edited by Northstar98

Modules I own: F-14A/B, Mi-24P, AV-8B N/A, AJS 37, F-5E-3, MiG-21bis, F-16CM, F/A-18C, Supercarrier, Mi-8MTV-2, UH-1H, Mirage 2000C, FC3, MiG-15bis, Ka-50, A-10C (+ A-10C II), P-47D, P-51D, C-101, Yak-52, WWII Assets, CA, NS430, Hawk

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I'll just ad my two cents.

I dont see why FC3 modules, especially the AFM ones like SU-27, F-15, soon to come SU-33 etc, are frowned upon this much. F-15 vs Mirage for example, once Im airborne, there really isnt much difference, to the amount of operations, or button pushes, even in an engagement. I hit the exact same buttons on my Hotas. Feels like some strange elitism.

 

But I can see the FC3 type planes as good entry level aircraft / modules for new comers, especially if there were more of them, and then once they got the taste of it, they can move on to the full fidelity modules.

 

Yes, ED wont make any more, so it would be down to 3rd party developers. But then, when FC3 level is getting this much hate, then I doubt any would go near it.

 

Plenty of room for both levels, and there should be imho.

- Jack of many DCS modules, master of none.

- Personal wishlist: F-15A, F-4S Phantom II, JAS 39A Gripen, SAAB 35 Draken, F-104 Starfighter, Panavia Tornado IDS.

 

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I'll just ad my two cents.

I dont see why FC3 modules, especially the AFM ones like SU-27, F-15, soon to come SU-33 etc, are frowned upon this much. F-15 vs Mirage for example, once Im airborne, there really isnt much difference, to the amount of operations, or button pushes, even in an engagement. I hit the exact same buttons on my Hotas. Feels like some strange elitism.

 

But I can see the FC3 type planes as good entry level aircraft / modules for new comers, especially if there were more of them, and then once they got the taste of it, they can move on to the full fidelity modules.

 

Yes, ED wont make any more, so it would be down to 3rd party developers. But then, when FC3 level is getting this much hate, then I doubt any would go near it.

 

Plenty of room for both levels, and there should be imho.

 

I believe FC3 should constitute the 'game' mode of DCS

 

The reason for the dislike is because they're aren't full fidelity. DCS is a full-fidelity simulator focusing on combat aircraft. The full fidelity aircraft are designed with the study-sim doctrine in mind in order to be as close to the real world counterpart as feasibly possible. The FC3 aircraft deviate - they're closer to lite-simulation like SF2 rather than full fidelity which is what DCS strives to be.

 

As a predominantly combat flight simulator DCS is unique in that it has the best mix of graphics, immersion, gameplay style and future potential and expandability that other sims lack. FC3 is kind of a step backwards not forwards for what DCS is supposed to be, how successful the aircraft are in practice in this regard is almost irrelevant.

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Modules I own: F-14A/B, Mi-24P, AV-8B N/A, AJS 37, F-5E-3, MiG-21bis, F-16CM, F/A-18C, Supercarrier, Mi-8MTV-2, UH-1H, Mirage 2000C, FC3, MiG-15bis, Ka-50, A-10C (+ A-10C II), P-47D, P-51D, C-101, Yak-52, WWII Assets, CA, NS430, Hawk

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Sigh.

 

Do you people come here to click switches or kick virtual rear end?

 

SSM/PFM stuff is fine. Sure, everyone'd like ASM/PFM, but sometimes you can't have that. Think modern platforms or otherwise complex platforms with minimal data. The SSM birds are great gap fillers. What these threads really show, IMHO, is the biggest problem with the community by far: It gets so caught up in FM fidelity and other generally useless things that it doesn't seem to care about scenarios or overall realism.

 

Look at these 3 bag A-10s on airquake servers sometime and tell me you're playing a high fidelity simulator. :D


Edited by Sweep

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Sigh.

 

Do you people come here to click switches or kick virtual rear end?

 

SSM/PFM stuff is fine. Sure, everyone'd like ASM/PFM, but sometimes you can't have that. Think modern platforms or otherwise complex platforms with minimal data. The SSM birds are great gap fillers. What these threads really show, IMHO, is the biggest problem with the community by far: It gets so caught up in FM fidelity and other generally useless things that it doesn't seem to care about scenarios or overall realism.

 

Look at these 3 bag A-10s on airquake servers sometime and tell me you're playing a high fidelity simulator. :D

I've never agreed with your sentiment on this issue -- while kicking butts is important, the motions you have to go through to kick it are integral to the exercise. The latter is the only thing that really attaches us to the aircraft in fact, because otherwise, so long as relative performance is maintained, we might as well abstract it all into paper darts.

Besides, you ought to be satisfied with the B*S you already fly, since that's already their philosophy.

 

Lastly, realistic scenarios are not the responsibility of the dev, and they can never be enforced by the dev. An unrealistic scenario is the product of willful apathy or ignorance on the part of the user; for the former there is no solution, and the latter is only encouraged by the lower knowledgebase requirements attendant to FC3 type modules.


Edited by probad

МИР

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I started my modern flight sim hobby with LOMAC, and tbh although i love my mirage and f5, its always fun to have a choice between multiple fighters and be able to hop into the cockpit of one without any learning curve whatsoever. You all know full well there is no competition to DCS in regards of modern combat flight simulations, so there really is no ideal alternative. If it wasn't for LOMAC, i wouldn't have a clue what I'm doing in DCS. This elitism and snobbishness is unnecessary


Edited by aidanw2000

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Modules: F-5, M-2000C, FC3, Mustang, Spitfire, Mig-15, Combined Arms, Black Shark.

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Also, the primary reason I would like to see more FC3 style aircraft, is that it will result in far more flyable aircraft added into the game, instead of working on a project for a year to make one full fidelity DCS level aircraft, they could make 8-10 lesser fidelity aircraft in the same time period. Obviously if i had a choice between 8 full fidelity DCS planes and 8 FC3 style planes, i'd take the DCS ones, but you simply are not going to get the same variety of aircraft if all of them are full fidelity planes. It would simply be wonderful to have 30-40 flyable planes, regardless of detail level.

Specs: i7-7700, 16GB DDR4, GTX 970, win 10 x64, TM HOTAS warthog.

Modules: F-5, M-2000C, FC3, Mustang, Spitfire, Mig-15, Combined Arms, Black Shark.

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I really want ASM in everything I fly in DCS. The F-15 is one my favorite aircraft but it's disappointing to fly because I can't actually interact with it. I really want a F-15C DCS module. For me, even the increased aircraft count doesn't really entice me into wanting FC level planes.

 

On the other hand I think the arguments against them based on realism might be misguided. While you feel the lower fidelity when fly a FC level plane, you don't necessarily feel it when fighting against them. At the very least a human pilot beats the AI. This is why CA is so good despite barely qualifying as a simulation.

 

I might not buy any FC planes, but if they're in the sim that's totally fine. They are more than realistic enough to improve the DCS online experience.

Awaiting: DCS F-15C

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Sigh.

 

Do you people come here to click switches or kick virtual rear end?

 

Look at these 3 bag A-10s on airquake servers sometime and tell me you're playing a high fidelity simulator. :D

 

I come here to have the most realistic experience of aircraft as possible from my PC. DCS is supposed to be a full fidelity combat flight simulator, not an arcade air combat game, not a 'lite-simulator' In short it's supposed to be FSX + realistic combat (though in reality DCS is much more than that).

 

Whilst DCS is full fidelity, it is also a sandbox, which also adds to it's value to me personally. As for realism, having Viggens, C-101s, Hawks etc flying around Georgia isn't exactly realistic either. It's up to mission designers and users to determine realistic scenarios.

Modules I own: F-14A/B, Mi-24P, AV-8B N/A, AJS 37, F-5E-3, MiG-21bis, F-16CM, F/A-18C, Supercarrier, Mi-8MTV-2, UH-1H, Mirage 2000C, FC3, MiG-15bis, Ka-50, A-10C (+ A-10C II), P-47D, P-51D, C-101, Yak-52, WWII Assets, CA, NS430, Hawk

Terrains I own: South Atlantic, Syria, The Channel, SoH/PG, Marianas

System (RIP my old PC): Dell XPS 15 9570 w/ Intel i7-8750H, NVIDIA GTX 1050Ti Max-Q, 16GB DDR4, 500GB Samsung PM871 SSD (upgraded with 1TB Samsung 970 EVO Plus SSD)

VKB Gunfighter Mk.II w. MCG Pro, MFG Crosswind V3 Graphite

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As someone who enjoys DCS (and LOMAC before that) for a variety of reasons, FC3 level aircraft are fine with me. I no longer have the time to invest in learning and remaining proficient in full fidelity airframes but would enjoy having other aircraft available with a lesser learning curve.

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Well, I wouldn't mind an FC3 level modern 4th gen Russian fighter since ED have expressly stated they are not going to make a DCS level one.

Since the reason for that is purely political, it's up to the 3rd party developers to fill that gap.

A full-fidelity Su-27S/SM, MiG-29 (9.13+) is very high on my wish-list :)

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Some of the high-friction discussions in the community such as this one stem from the fact that there aren't many sims around anymore, and people with different tastes and expectations, come to DCS and expect it to satiate these different expectations.

 

Originally, FC3 would not have been a thing even... but since many people came into DCS as a continuation of previous Lock-On series of ED sims, they wanted their old toys back a lot, and it also made some sense, since early on module choices were very little, and with some development the old assets could colour up the budding DCS scene, and convince many of the old player base to come over if they did not already. It was the legacy, including the airframes that was in earlier ED sims, the ones multiplayer PvP community were used to, and needed.

 

Fast forward to now, and the old survey sim vs study sim debate resurfaces, this time however, unlike back in the 90s, or even early 2000s, there aren't many options catering to either taste and shades in-between. DCS is a hardcore study sim in design, with all the pros and cons of that, however, its multiplayer scene is more condusive to survey level, because community approach multiplayer more like "lets go have some fun" rather than two or one side trying to accomplish some goals, in my opinion even some servers who try to introduce objectives like blue flag, still end up mostly deathmatch-ish.

 

So, the product leans towards hardcore study modeling of aircraft, for all the pros and cons of this approach, it is just what it is, but then, the online community is inclined otherwise, and on top, even if we disregard online thing, many people who want a flight sim, come to DCS even if what they want isn't necessarily hardcore study sim. That is because the DCS is the only currently still in-dev combat sim with support for multiple eras, technologies, peripherals and up to date graphics. There are some alternatives, but for more defined and narrow niches.

 

This creates a funny conundrum. Some people want modern aircraft, even if it simply isn't realistic for majority of modern aircraft to materialize in the level of reality expected from DCS. Others take it a step further, and say just give us those planes, even if at a lower level of modeling, because that is the main thing they want. Others mainly want the fidelity DCS is known for, and is a no-no for them to have more FC3 modules, it is just not even thinkable for them (and I belong in this particular group). Some want multiplaye competitive balance first and foremost.

 

Viggens or C-101s over Georgia doesn't mean a single thing for me, I don't care about setting, geopraphics etc. in the least, as long as aircraft themselves are done to the DCS standart, I am more interested in making scenarios that could happen but did not in history, rather than reenacting the exact history. Even if one is leaning more towards recreating historical scenarios, a map that is not the right one, can often be used a create a good approximation, though admittedly not always. When aircraft isn't quite up to it though that is a different story in my opinion.

 

DCS is what it is, but since there aren't an abundance of options in the combat flight sims anymore, many people expect it to be other things as well. It is an often sight to see people complaining that DCS is a hodge-podge of things that are all over the place with modules from disconnected eras, even though that is the very definition of the sim. Adding more FC3 level aircraft however, will truly make it a hodge-podge in my opinion, in a much deeper lever too: at the level of simulation.

 

Besides, so far having an aircraft released for DCS in some form has meant that, that is all it ever will be in the sim, and even variants would be unlikely to happen. This way, if an aircraft is added as an FC3 level module, it can mean that particular airframe is very unlikely to be made as a proper module by someone else, or even by the same dev. Finally, it can easily push the devs to the "dark side", would you choose a less costly development that will sell just fine, or a very lengthy and costly one?

 

I really, really don't want more FC3 in DCS, and I wouldn't mind if current ones were possible to be made into DCS level too. But I understand why some people think otherwise, and I wish there was another sim for them to fly for sating that cravings too.

 

I wish ED could have limitless resources like ED / Janes had back then, so they could develop mulitple products at the same time for different niches in market :P. And I wish the market was less niche, and there were more alternatives directly competing from other developers as well. It would have been more healthy, as people wouldn't be expecting mutually exclusive things from the same single product they have.

Wishlist: F-4E Block 53 +, MiG-27K, Su-17M3 or M4, AH-1F or W circa 80s or early 90s, J35 Draken, Kfir C7, Mirage III/V

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